Replace BOTH Houston and Ford?

[Balto 723]

Houston:  $15.5M cap saved cut or traded

Ford:  estimates of $16.325M for franchise tag

total savings:  $31.825M saved

 

Now take that $31M and sign two of the DE’s in FA below..

 

1). DeMarcus Lawrence

2). Jadeveon Clowney

3). Trey Flowers

4). Frank Clark

5). Ezekiel Ansah

6). Brandon Graham

 

Could go after Lawrence and then grab Graham.  Both should be cheaper overall than Houston/Ford.

 

Or do you keep one of our guys and go after Graham?

or do we go with other guys on the team, grab graham and also a safety like Collins?

[PAChiefsFan79 136]

Hmmmmm... let me get back to you. This is a good brain exercise considering we're moving to a 4-3 under. 

[Balto 723]

Oh and we should be able to tag Ford and very easily trade him and Houston for pick/player.  Not saying top picks but more than nothing

[kkuenn 3,613]

38 minutes ago, Balto said:

Oh and we should be able to tag Ford and very easily trade him and Houston for pick/player.  Not saying top picks but more than nothing

Tag and trade if we dont use him in the 4-3. Get a 3rd at least this way this year and maybe another pick next year or go for a 2nd this year with nothing more?

 

Houston I doubt you can trade but who knows.

[dhitter 1,426]

If I had to guess (and a lot could happen between now and FA)...I'd say Chiefs tag Ford and try to get Houston to restructure his contract. If he is unwilling to do so the Chiefs will likely cut him and eat the dead money but then are free to find the next Justin Houston. Houston will have no trouble finding work elsewhere if he does go. This is assuming the Chiefs and Spagnoulo believe Houston fits his scheme and want to keep him. I believe Houston still has some gas. Will be interesting to see it play out.

[Balto 723]

9 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

Tag and trade if we dont use him in the 4-3. Get a 3rd at least this way this year and maybe another pick next year or go for a 2nd this year with nothing more?

 

Houston I doubt you can trade but who knows.

I don’t see why we can’t trade Houston.....would only cost his new team $15.5M and that’s not bad for him.

[Lamardirts 2,121]

3 hours ago, Balto said:

I don’t see why we can’t trade Houston.....would only cost his new team $15.5M and that’s not bad for him.

Read a Bleacher Report article that discussed this very thing.  Something about the Colts and a 3rd round pick which sounds pretty good....maybe a little too good.  But you are right.   You get his contract but could cut him after this upcoming year and you get him for $15.5 which isn't a bad deal.   His stats actually looked really good considering he missed quite a bit of the season.  I mean getting a 4th for him would be awesome.   The other trade they thought up for us was trading a 1st and 2nd rounder for Jalen Ramsey.   I think if for some reason we made that trade then Houston is straight up gone and we roll with what we got.   Speaks, Nandi, Jones, Ford   Draft/Vet,  Hitchens, DOD   Ramsey, Ward, Fuller, Berry and Watts/Lucas.     The reality is I'd rather spend money on a guy like Frank Clark than Ford but that's not happening.   

 

[Palangi 788]

42 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

Read a Bleacher Report article that discussed this very thing.  Something about the Colts and a 3rd round pick which sounds pretty good....maybe a little too good.  But you are right.   You get his contract but could cut him after this upcoming year and you get him for $15.5 which isn't a bad deal.   His stats actually looked really good considering he missed quite a bit of the season.  I mean getting a 4th for him would be awesome.   The other trade they thought up for us was trading a 1st and 2nd rounder for Jalen Ramsey.   I think if for some reason we made that trade then Houston is straight up gone and we roll with what we got.   Speaks, Nandi, Jones, Ford   Draft/Vet,  Hitchens, DOD   Ramsey, Ward, Fuller, Berry and Watts/Lucas.     The reality is I'd rather spend money on a guy like Frank Clark than Ford but that's not happening.   

 

What about Houston for Fournette?

[Mloe68 1,521]

I think it’s clear based on Veach comments that Spags wants Ford here next year so the tag is easy option.  

Justin Houston is clearly declining and not worth even 15.5 million in my opinion. 

[Balto 723]

1 hour ago, Lamardirts said:

Read a Bleacher Report article that discussed this very thing.  Something about the Colts and a 3rd round pick which sounds pretty good....maybe a little too good.  But you are right.   You get his contract but could cut him after this upcoming year and you get him for $15.5 which isn't a bad deal.   His stats actually looked really good considering he missed quite a bit of the season.  I mean getting a 4th for him would be awesome.   The other trade they thought up for us was trading a 1st and 2nd rounder for Jalen Ramsey.   I think if for some reason we made that trade then Houston is straight up gone and we roll with what we got.   Speaks, Nandi, Jones, Ford   Draft/Vet,  Hitchens, DOD   Ramsey, Ward, Fuller, Berry and Watts/Lucas.     The reality is I'd rather spend money on a guy like Frank Clark than Ford but that's not happening.   

 

If trading for Ramsey I’d wanna free up some cap.  Maybe instead of a 1st+2nd we go 1st+Houston instead?

[Balto 723]

26 minutes ago, Palangi said:

What about Houston for Fournette?

I might be the only one around here that thinks IF Fournette is actually on the trading block it would be buying him at his lowest!  Strange injuries combined with stupid suspensions I feel are gonna be the things of the past for Fournette and who ever trades for him gets a HUGE steal!

 

Id be as happy as a puppy with two peters if Veach could land us BOTH Fournette and Ramsey!

 

Maybe:  1st+2nd+Houston for Ramsey and Fournette 

-Ramsey’s new contract will cancel out Houston’s and be a wash...

-Fournette still has 3 years left of rookie deal!

 

[sith13 1,746]

We already don't need both as Speaks is supposed to be the guy to handle one DE position. If Spags is on the same page replacing both with a single DE that's much better than both makes a ton of sense. If we can trade both that's just a dream scenario but trading Ford and releasing Houston is the more likely outcome. With Veach's comments about Ford I'm guessing they will definitely tag him which is no surprise to the asking price might be higher. In case of Houston it all seems to be up to Spags to decide.

Frank Clark would be an excellent pick up but I'm not sure if he'll hit the market. However you never know with Seattle, if he's available I would take him over whatever we have in town. A lot younger than both our options and still has time to hit his prime. 

[soonerborn77 276]

6 hours ago, Palangi said:

What about Houston for Fournette?

I don't think we need Fournette, we can grab any RB in the 3rd or later and plug him into our offense.  If we trade Houston, we can get a better player or at least some picks out of it. 

[dksww 484]

1 hour ago, soonerborn77 said:

I don't think we need Fournette, we can grab any RB in the 3rd or later and plug him into our offense.  If we trade Houston, we can get a better player or at least some picks out of it. 

One FA to keep an eye on someone mentioned on here was Tevin Coleman signing.  At first I didn't think it was a good idea, just draft one, but now I think it would be a great fit.

[dksww 484]

I could be wrong, but after cleaning up all the dead money that Dorsey created I really doubt that B. Veach is going to create a huge amount of it by cutting Eric Berry and Justin Houston.

My guess is they might seek out a trade for whatever they can get, restructure or just keep them and wait until next year when there's not $15 m in dead money combined to cut them.

[Balto 723]

1 hour ago, dksww said:

One FA to keep an eye on someone mentioned on here was Tevin Coleman signing.  At first I didn't think it was a good idea, just draft one, but now I think it would be a great fit.

I agree and there is also a HUGE KC connection I remember reading somewhere....Like a ex coach of his is on our staff now?

[Balto 723]

1 hour ago, dksww said:

I could be wrong, but after cleaning up all the dead money that Dorsey created I really doubt that B. Veach is going to create a huge amount of it by cutting Eric Berry and Justin Houston.

My guess is they might seek out a trade for whatever they can get, restructure or just keep them and wait until next year when there's not $15 m in dead money combined to cut them.

I'm not worried about dead money IF the salary cap savings is good enough to replace the player.

 

Like in Houston's case we save $15.5M this year and about $17M neat year in NET cap savings...YEs there will be about $5M this year in dead money but still NET $15.5M in savings.  So can we find a 4-3 guy to replace him for $15.5M?  I'd say maybe

Also regardless if a player is cut or traded the dead money is going to be the same.

[Mloe68 1,521]

Other option is to restructure and extend Houston.  Trade seems very unlikely with his contract but release or restructure are almost even money.  All depends on Spags evaluation.  

[Dan4pres 125]

For those of you who so quickly want to move on from Houston, please bear this in mind, the dude is a playmaker. He is not the unblockable force he once was but is still very stout against the run and seems to make the big play when the defense needs it. I know his current salary is outrageous and I hope he realizes it to some degree as well. If he is smart, he will renegotiate his contract to a more team-friendly deal (somewhere in the $10-$12 MM range). Houston has to know this team is on the cusp of a SB and I would think he desperately wants to be a part of it. When he signed his contract he was not only the best defensive player on the Chiefs, you could argue he was one of the top five best in the NFL. He no longer is that player and the reality of the NFL must set in to his thinking. Houston also knows that the team needs some pieces on defense and his salary is in large part preventing that. The team stood by him while he was recovering, now he needs to repay that goodwill with a renegotiation. If he is unwilling to do that, then cut his ass. 

P.S. This same could be said for Berry as well. 

[oldtimer 8,694]

1 minute ago, Dan4pres said:

For those of you who so quickly want to move on from Houston, please bear this in mind, the dude is a playmaker. He is not the unblockable force he once was but is still very stout against the run and seems to make the big play when the defense needs it. I know his current salary is outrageous and I hope he realizes it to some degree as well. If he is smart, he will renegotiate his contract to a more team-friendly deal (somewhere in the $10-$12 MM range). Houston has to know this team is on the cusp of a SB and I would think he desperately wants to be a part of it. When he signed his contract he was not only the best defensive player on the Chiefs, you could argue he was one of the top five best in the NFL. He no longer is that player and the reality of the NFL must set in to his thinking. Houston also knows that the team needs some pieces on defense and his salary is in large part preventing that. The team stood by him while he was recovering, now he needs to repay that goodwill with a renegotiation. If he is unwilling to do that, then cut his ass. 

could of just  typed out the bolded. Dorsey left the Chiefs  in a bent over position with Berry & Houston's  contract... these player  much like Gonzalas referring to his time in Al and not KC  just proves a point I made earlier.. They are out for themselves. Team/City be damned 

[dksww 484]

48 minutes ago, Balto said:

I'm not worried about dead money IF the salary cap savings is good enough to replace the player.

 

Like in Houston's case we save $15.5M this year and about $17M neat year in NET cap savings...YEs there will be about $5M this year in dead money but still NET $15.5M in savings.  So can we find a 4-3 guy to replace him for $15.5M?  I'd say maybe

Also regardless if a player is cut or traded the dead money is going to be the same.

True, it's Berry's contract that's a dead money nightmare without any cap savings.  But, they could make it a little better by designating him a post June 1 cut.

[CranjisMcbasketball 781]

Houston is on the decline but i still want hin on the team, he is a damn smart football player who almost always sets the edge, doesn’t get fooled on misdirection plays, or blows assignments.

ford is the opposite, from a football iq standpoint he is a special needs student. Im not a fan of building around players like that.

tag and trade ford, target a 2nd to 3rd round value.

restructure houston if possible.

if jalen ramsey is available in a trade for a one year hired gun rental do it (possibly use ford to aquire ramsey)

for those suggesting trade for leonard fournette i would strongly suggest that is a bad move for this team

1. Fournette is extremely limited in the passing game

2. His value is so low at this point the jags would probably send the player and picks for nothing just to get him off their books. Giving up anything of value for an expensive average rb is idiocy.

 

the main thing that would help this defense is eric berry taking an injury settlement and hanging up his cleats, for him to postpone surgery AGAIN is a joke at this point

[gballs 3]

I think house money is on Ford being here and Houston getting cut.  I'm all in on trading him, if they can make it work.  Ideally, to a team like the Jets that has a hard time attracting pass rushers and they have a ton of cap space.  I also don't want to see him in the playoffs lining up with a horseshoe on his helmet hellbent on revenge.  

Remember our new d-line coach also coached Trey Flowers.  Just putting it out there.

I think there is zero chance we sign a RB, i.e. Tevin Coleman.  He'll get paid and we're not tying up any more dough in a RB.  We'll draft one Day 3.

Fournette is a between the tackles runner who doesn't catch the ball.  Not a fit for us.

All in on trying to get Ramsey, if the price is right.

[Balto 723]

11 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

Houston is on the decline but i still want hin on the team, he is a damn smart football player who almost always sets the edge, doesn’t get fooled on misdirection plays, or blows assignments.

ford is the opposite, from a football iq standpoint he is a special needs student. Im not a fan of building around players like that.

tag and trade ford, target a 2nd to 3rd round value.

restructure houston if possible.

if jalen ramsey is available in a trade for a one year hired gun rental do it (possibly use ford to aquire ramsey)

for those suggesting trade for leonard fournette i would strongly suggest that is a bad move for this team

1. Fournette is extremely limited in the passing game

2. His value is so low at this point the jags would probably send the player and picks for nothing just to get him off their books. Giving up anything of value for an expensive average rb is idiocy.

 

the main thing that would help this defense is eric berry taking an injury settlement and hanging up his cleats, for him to postpone surgery AGAIN is a joke at this point

1. Fournette is extremely limited in the passing game

Meh...If played all games he was on pace BOTH his rookie year and last year of being in the top 10 in rec as a RB.

 

2. His value is so low at this point the jags would probably send the player and picks for nothing just to get him off their books. Giving up anything of value for an expensive average rb is idiocy.

I agree 100% with everything you said but the expensive part!  He is dirt cheap on that rookie contract for the next few years.  

[Balto 723]

11 minutes ago, gballs said:

I think house money is on Ford being here and Houston getting cut.  I'm all in on trading him, if they can make it work.  Ideally, to a team like the Jets that has a hard time attracting pass rushers and they have a ton of cap space.  I also don't want to see him in the playoffs lining up with a horseshoe on his helmet hellbent on revenge.  

Remember our new d-line coach also coached Trey Flowers.  Just putting it out there.

I think there is zero chance we sign a RB, i.e. Tevin Coleman.  He'll get paid and we're not tying up any more dough in a RB.  We'll draft one Day 3.

Fournette is a between the tackles runner who doesn't catch the ball.  Not a fit for us.

All in on trying to get Ramsey, if the price is right.

I'm also ALL in for Ramsey and I'd be more than happy to over pay for him.  I say give up a ton in picks/players and also make him a top 3 paid CB!  Lock him up for long term.  We have the cap space while Pat is cheap BUT I'd still be ok with making Houston restructure or cut/trade him to make Ramsey's contract easier to swallow.

 

We have the cap now to resign Hill and Jones.....Trade and give Ramsey a huge deal......Also sign a safety in Collins or Earl!  Veach would need to make Ramsey's and Collins's first year cap hits a little smaller IF he wanted to keep Houston and Berry on the books at the same time.  Then in 2020 Houston/Berry will be gone or much much cheaper and the big bucks going Ramsey/Collins doesn't hurt.

 

Our window is NOW!  Once Pat gets his $40M year...…...OUCH