Berry Surgery

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

23 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

Makes me wonder if he know that his days are numbered so he’s trying to milk the injury to get another year or two.  I hate to think that but I’ve never seen anything take so long to diagnose in pro sports.  They get preferencial treatment pretty much and normally don’t don’t have to wait to see specialists.   

Hope im dead wrong.

I think you are dead wrong.  Seeing a bump on the heel with imaging is not some kind of difficult or high tech thing. Its very routine.  Neither is the surgery which heals easily in several months.  He was held out of playing for only one reason -  they thought they could get some great play out of him at a crucial time late in the season.  The only thing wrong was their refusal to be honest with the press and fans by continually saying "day to day" or "literally day to day." Now that the season is over, it is my suspicion that the only reasons we have not heard about his surgery has something to do with contract revisal to save money and decisions whether his cap hit will be too much to keep him or not to keep him. That will depend on the other contracts they are negotiating and who else they can't affort to keep (we all know the names).  They also need to see who is available in FA and what that would cost.  Until they have a bottom line estimate and some decisions, no one will know....not us, not in the league, not in the press.  If he already had surgery, it would be difficult to hide that, even if he flew to another country.  So, they must think he can play if they can keep him at a reasonable price.  We just have to get used to the fact that we are always going to be limited in what we are alllowed to know, and it is for money and negotiation reasons.  We are not really entitled.  He is an employee of a close-to-the-vest privately held company. There is no reason to think of this as some kind of conspiracy of silence. Its business. Its not "omertá"

I believe that his cap hit is just plain too big, considering that we are going to have to give Mahomes a 200 million dollar contract in another year or two.

[reesebobby 5,663]

19 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

I think you are dead wrong.  Seeing a bump on the heel with imaging is not some kind of difficult or high tech thing. Its very routine.  Neither is the surgery which heals easily in several months.  He was held out of playing for only one reason -  they thought they could get some great play out of him at a crucial time late in the season.  The only thing wrong was their refusal to be honest with the press and fans by continually saying "day to day" or "literally day to day." Now that the season is over, it is my suspicion that the only reasons we have not heard about his surgery has something to do with contract revisal to save money and decisions whether his cap hit will be too much to keep him or not to keep him. That will depend on the other contracts they are negotiating and who else they can't affort to keep (we all know the names).  They also need to see who is available in FA and what that would cost.  Until they have a bottom line estimate and some decisions, no one will know....not us, not in the league, not in the press.  If he already had surgery, it would be difficult to hide that, even if he flew to another country.  So, they must think he can play if they can keep him at a reasonable price.  We just have to get used to the fact that we are always going to be limited in what we are alllowed to know, and it is for money and negotiation reasons.  We are not really entitled.  He is an employee of a close-to-the-vest privately held company. There is no reason to think of this as some kind of conspiracy of silence. Its business. Its not "omertá"

I believe that his cap hit is just plain too big, considering that we are going to have to give Mahomes a 200 million dollar contract in another year or two.

I don't think his lack of surgery has anything to do with free agents or contract revisal.  It doesn't matter how cheap he is if he's unavailable.  It's on him to be available and so far he hasn't seemed to make every effort to do so.  Including now.   

[Lamardirts 2,121]

34 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

I think you are dead wrong.  Seeing a bump on the heel with imaging is not some kind of difficult or high tech thing. Its very routine.  Neither is the surgery which heals easily in several months.  He was held out of playing for only one reason -  they thought they could get some great play out of him at a crucial time late in the season.  The only thing wrong was their refusal to be honest with the press and fans by continually saying "day to day" or "literally day to day." Now that the season is over, it is my suspicion that the only reasons we have not heard about his surgery has something to do with contract revisal to save money and decisions whether his cap hit will be too much to keep him or not to keep him. That will depend on the other contracts they are negotiating and who else they can't affort to keep (we all know the names).  They also need to see who is available in FA and what that would cost.  Until they have a bottom line estimate and some decisions, no one will know....not us, not in the league, not in the press.  If he already had surgery, it would be difficult to hide that, even if he flew to another country.  So, they must think he can play if they can keep him at a reasonable price.  We just have to get used to the fact that we are always going to be limited in what we are alllowed to know, and it is for money and negotiation reasons.  We are not really entitled.  He is an employee of a close-to-the-vest privately held company. There is no reason to think of this as some kind of conspiracy of silence. Its business. Its not "omertá"

I believe that his cap hit is just plain too big, considering that we are going to have to give Mahomes a 200 million dollar contract in another year or two.

So When did a player lose his right to have a surgery for his own health?  I understand your line of thinking but the player would have had to agree to hold off on the surgery which doesn’t make sense to me now that we know the team didn’t expect how good Mahomes and this team was going to be at the time of Berry’s injury.  No this is on Berry.  And another thing that backs this up is the lack of urgency to have this issue fixed after the season.  We are a month past the last Chiefs game and still nothing.   He has had 6 months now to figure out what this is find every opinion and option out there available to him.   This is a money decision which I get but let’s stop pretending like this guy is being totally upfront and honest.  

[Mloe68 1,521]

I’ll say this. Berry can rebuild his entire legacy with fan base if he comes back, plays most if not all of the season, and helps us get to Miami the first weekend in February. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

2 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

So When did a player lose his right to have a surgery for his own health?  I understand your line of thinking but the player would have had to agree to hold off on the surgery which doesn’t make sense to me now that we know the team didn’t expect how good Mahomes and this team was going to be at the time of Berry’s injury.  No this is on Berry.  And another thing that backs this up is the lack of urgency to have this issue fixed after the season.  We are a month past the last Chiefs game and still nothing.   He has had 6 months now to figure out what this is find every opinion and option out there available to him.   This is a money decision which I get but let’s stop pretending like this guy is being totally upfront and honest.  

I think both you and Bobby misunderstood or I didn't write that well.  A player does not lose a right to have a surgery for his own health.  But he does rely on team doctors who recommend, and those doctors are paid by the team, for whatever that may be worth.   Also, the recommendations of the team physician(s) is given not only to the patient but to the team.  The player agrees to that in his contract. Obviously, also, players want to play or they wouldn't be players, so they are inherently biased toward team recommendations.

[reesebobby 5,663]

30 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

 Obviously, also, players want to play or they wouldn't be players, so they are inherently biased toward team recommendations.

I'm not sure that's always the case.  That's like saying people want to mine coal or they wouldn't be coal miners.  They get paid a lot of money.  More than they would doing anything else.    There's been plenty of guys that were there for the money.  I never considered Berry to be one of them, but he's wearing me out.  

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

12 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

I'm not sure that's always the case.  That's like saying people want to mine coal or they wouldn't be coal miners.  They get paid a lot of money.  More than they would doing anything else.    There's been plenty of guys that were there for the money.  I never considered Berry to be one of them, but he's wearing me out.  

Me, too.  Probably the front office, also.

[Lamardirts 2,121]

21 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Me, too.  Probably the front office, also.

Me three!

[CranjisMcbasketball 781]

As far as not being allowed injury history as fans there are two sides to the story.

1. Personal information of the player shouldn’t be available to the public, this is understood.

2. The fanbase invests heavily into the team through tax’s paid for stadium maintenance, parking lot expansion etc. and are thus justified in expecting certain information regarding the direction of the team.

i for one consider an explanation of what berry is up, as a player who makes 50 million + dollars and appears to be going out of his way to avoid being able to play, part of a reasonable expectation of information the taxpaying fanbase should receive.

in the teams defense after listening to the brett veach interview its clear he is disgusted with berry and is legally unable to comment on his displeasure at the current time

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

50 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

As far as not being allowed injury history as fans there are two sides to the story.

1. Personal information of the player shouldn’t be available to the public, this is understood.

2. The fanbase invests heavily into the team through tax’s paid for stadium maintenance, parking lot expansion etc. and are thus justified in expecting certain information regarding the direction of the team.

i for one consider an explanation of what berry is up, as a player who makes 50 million + dollars and appears to be going out of his way to avoid being able to play, part of a reasonable expectation of information the taxpaying fanbase should receive.

in the teams defense after listening to the brett veach interview its clear he is disgusted with berry and is legally unable to comment on his displeasure at the current time

It isn't just the fanbase that pays taxes for all that stuff.  It's everyone in the metropolitan area, including people who aren't fans.  Anyway, even if I weren't a fan, I would understand the enormous spending throughout a city caused by having a sports franchise reduces tax by the same amount.  But I understand what you are saying. Anyway, we all learn the direction of the team by watching the moves the front office makes.  Our predictions of what they will do in the offseason are merely opinion and wishes.  What they actually do is the only real information we get.

[Lamardirts 2,121]

1 hour ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

As far as not being allowed injury history as fans there are two sides to the story.

1. Personal information of the player shouldn’t be available to the public, this is understood.

2. The fanbase invests heavily into the team through tax’s paid for stadium maintenance, parking lot expansion etc. and are thus justified in expecting certain information regarding the direction of the team.

i for one consider an explanation of what berry is up, as a player who makes 50 million + dollars and appears to be going out of his way to avoid being able to play, part of a reasonable expectation of information the taxpaying fanbase should receive.

in the teams defense after listening to the brett veach interview its clear he is disgusted with berry and is legally unable to comment on his displeasure at the current time

I didn't get a chance to listen to the Brett Veach interview, does anyone else fell like Cranjis about his disgust with the Berry situation?   

[PAChiefsFan79 136]

On 2/15/2019 at 1:47 PM, CranjisMcbasketball said:

he, sucked his rookie contract except for his free agency year where he played like a stud.

Your post went downhill from here. Love it when fans talk about a player "sucking" when practically every single football mind in the profession refer to him as one of the best safeties. 

 

Your bitter over his injuries and I get that but come on bro... he's been a stud most of his career.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

Exactly.  And then to come back from Hodgkin's disease and chemotherapy and still be all-pro is one of the most amazing things I have ever witnessed.  The guy is a phenomenon.  I will hate to see him go if it comes to that.

[oldtimer 8,694]

1 hour ago, Lamardirts said:

I didn't get a chance to listen to the Brett Veach interview, does anyone else fell like Cranjis about his disgust with the Berry situation?   

I heard it....IMO  he  inferred what you wanted to hear

[WichitaZRide 321]

For the “cut Berry” camp, this would be a good thing.  If the chiefs want that post June 1st 9 mill cap relief he needs to be able to pass a team physical.  That appears to be something he can currently do.  If he opts for the surgery now, there’s no way he passes the physical AND he most likely won’t play in 2019.  I love Berry, but at this point I’d rather cut him and apply the money to an above average safety than HOPE we see Berry in December...

[DieHard 2,061]

30 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Exactly.  And then to come back from Hodgkin's disease and chemotherapy and still be all-pro is one of the most amazing things I have ever witnessed.  The guy is a phenomenon.  I will hate to see him go if it comes to that.

I hate to see it also. I guess it’s rebuild time on that side of the ball. I hope Houston makes it through, but I think Berry  might be on the outside looking in with the snap count. Much love and I hope he is successful in his new digs.

[CranjisMcbasketball 781]

2 hours ago, PAChiefsFan79 said:

Your post went downhill from here. Love it when fans talk about a player "sucking" when practically every single football mind in the profession refer to him as one of the best safeties. 

 

Your bitter over his injuries and I get that but come on bro... he's been a stud most of his career.

You have to remember he was drafted when the rookies still made an absurd amount of money.

im guessing he was a top 3 salary safety as a rookie.

if you thought he was noticeably better than a nfl average safety making 1 mil a year back then you were watching a different game than i was.

Hell i would say safeties we picked up off the scrap heap such as husain abduhluh, a young ron parker, tyvon branch, and kurt coleman were equally as effective, especially for the cost.

I live in a world of value for cost and when you make over 10 million a year and aren’t ed reid,  earl thomas, or trou palamalu calibre i place you in the suck category 

 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

14 hours ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

You have to remember he was drafted when the rookies still made an absurd amount of money.

im guessing he was a top 3 salary safety as a rookie.

if you thought he was noticeably better than a nfl average safety making 1 mil a year back then you were watching a different game than i was.

Hell i would say safeties we picked up off the scrap heap such as husain abduhluh, a young ron parker, tyvon branch, and kurt coleman were equally as effective, especially for the cost.

I live in a world of value for cost and when you make over 10 million a year and aren’t ed reid,  earl thomas, or trou palamalu calibre i place you in the suck category 

 

Laughable

[Calichief 3,024]

1 hour ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Laughable

At Berry’s peak, he was every bit as good as the best safeties. But that is/was a short span.

[Thegoatee 1,785]

If he was refusing surgery, force him to play. If he refuses to play, suspend him or put him on IR. What the Chiefs did last year was ridiculous. If it was the medical staff advice, they should be fired. I am not sold on them anyway.

[sith13 1,746]

The last news were him going to GB to visit the doctor that operated on DJ. Nothing else came up but if a surgery is needed I'm pretty sure the team will decide on the timing and IMO they shouldn't waste any time. We need to enter FA with some basic information about his recovery and should have a clear view of his future by the draft. 

[PAChiefsFan79 136]

22 hours ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

You have to remember he was drafted when the rookies still made an absurd amount of money.

im guessing he was a top 3 salary safety as a rookie.

if you thought he was noticeably better than a nfl average safety making 1 mil a year back then you were watching a different game than i was.

Hell i would say safeties we picked up off the scrap heap such as husain abduhluh, a young ron parker, tyvon branch, and kurt coleman were equally as effective, especially for the cost.

I live in a world of value for cost and when you make over 10 million a year and aren’t ed reid,  earl thomas, or trou palamalu calibre i place you in the suck category 

 

Laughable. But if you held that opinion for as long as you have then I am not changing it. Agree to disagree on this subject. 

[PAChiefsFan79 136]

6 hours ago, Thegoatee said:

If he was refusing surgery, force him to play. If he refuses to play, suspend him or put him on IR. What the Chiefs did last year was ridiculous. If it was the medical staff advice, they should be fired. I am not sold on them anyway.

As a fan I wanted him to have the surgery during the season.  BUT as a person with an objective brain and a wife who had a bone spur removed, her flexibility isn't the same and any type of shoulder press movements cause her pain for days. She had her surgery in September. I can understand why Berry might have wanted to try a different route. Fans need to remember that players are still humans.

[Balto 723]

On 2/16/2019 at 4:24 PM, WichitaZRide said:

For the “cut Berry” camp, this would be a good thing.  If the chiefs want that post June 1st 9 mill cap relief he needs to be able to pass a team physical.  That appears to be something he can currently do.  If he opts for the surgery now, there’s no way he passes the physical AND he most likely won’t play in 2019.  I love Berry, but at this point I’d rather cut him and apply the money to an above average safety than HOPE we see Berry in December...

Were do you see that KC can’t cut Berry if he is injured?  This happens all the time in the NFL but maybe Berry has a injury clause in contract?

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

On 2/15/2019 at 11:32 AM, Troyofoc said:

Can a player refuse surgery? 

Any human being can refuse surgery. Any human being who plays football for a living can refuse surgery and try to play for a different team.