Our Oline ? How to repair?

[Mloe68 1,521]

3 minutes ago, FANATIC said:

Exactly. Not to mention he often hold on to ball longer in an effort to make plays. 

Also in NE game Mahomes needed to recognize constant blitzes and get ball to hot read faster.  Oline was inconsistent all around outside of Schwartz so they do need to improve, but there’s other stuff in play.  And I think all that experience, especially in the playoffs will do wonders for Mahomes development. 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

24 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

Also in NE game Mahomes needed to recognize constant blitzes and get ball to hot read faster.  Oline was inconsistent all around outside of Schwartz so they do need to improve, but there’s other stuff in play.  And I think all that experience, especially in the playoffs will do wonders for Mahomes development. 

Exactly. NE harassed everyone they played this off season. It was more a product of Belichick being a master game planner than anything. Im sure he saw on film that Mahome struggled this year when teams twisted and stunted and brought extra defenders up the middle rather than off the edges.

 

[Mloe68 1,521]

40 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Exactly. NE harassed everyone they played this off season. It was more a product of Belichick being a master game planner than anything. Im sure he saw on film that Mahome struggled this year when teams twisted and stunted and brought extra defenders up the middle rather than off the edges.

 

This is the exciting part to me. Recognizing defenses takes experience and Andy continually talked about it taking at least two years as a starter.  With his football IQ and retention skills just imagine how much more efficient Mahomes can still become. You want to take things away and he will just pick you apart elsewhere.  

This isn’t about him improving on 50 TDs but rather controlling game from under center and demoralizing frustrated opponents. Its the type of things great QBs do in January to the point you can win anywhere with a competent team and coaches around you.  

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

29 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

This is the exciting part to me. Recognizing defenses takes experience and Andy continually talked about it taking at least two years as a starter.  With his football IQ and retention skills just imagine how much more efficient Mahomes can still become. You want to take things away and he will just pick you apart elsewhere.  

This isn’t about him improving on 50 TDs but rather controlling game from under center and demoralizing frustrated opponents. Its the type of things great QBs do in January to the point you can win anywhere with a competent team and coaches around you.  

It looked like nearly every team with the needed personnel did the same things last season.  A guy who likes to throw to the deepest guy who is open and who likes to make plays outside the pocket is vulnerable to that.  Bellichik did the obvious.  Mahomes needs to do two things it seems.  He needs to slightly calm his instincts and go for the yardage he NEEDS instead of the yardage he WANTS, like Brady did in the AFC championship game.  He also needs to learn how to use the pocket a little better.  He is one single twisted ankle away from ruining an entire season.  I always hold my breath when he does that.  His abilities on the run are spectacular but often just too risky.

[Mloe68 1,521]

1 hour ago, Fmbl2187 said:

It looked like nearly every team with the needed personnel did the same things last season.  A guy who likes to throw to the deepest guy who is open and who likes to make plays outside the pocket is vulnerable to that.  Bellichik did the obvious.  Mahomes needs to do two things it seems.  He needs to slightly calm his instincts and go for the yardage he NEEDS instead of the yardage he WANTS, like Brady did in the AFC championship game.  He also needs to learn how to use the pocket a little better.  He is one single twisted ankle away from ruining an entire season.  I always hold my breath when he does that.  His abilities on the run are spectacular but often just too risky.

I agree. Mahomes big play ability outside of the pocket is very similar to Aaron Rodgers and makes him special because only the very few can do it. But there are times when he needs to take what the defense gives. He didn't need to force the ball downfield in the Rams game. He really did a great job of playing within himself at some crucial times especially in that Colts playoff win. When he can pick apart a defense with the yardage we need, its also going to open up more opportunity for big plays he thrives at. I feel like we are perhaps watching Michael Jordan in his infancy. This kid can be that good. Protecting himself is a big part of that though too. 

[sith13 1,746]

2 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

I agree. Mahomes big play ability outside of the pocket is very similar to Aaron Rodgers and makes him special because only the very few can do it. But there are times when he needs to take what the defense gives. He didn't need to force the ball downfield in the Rams game. He really did a great job of playing within himself at some crucial times especially in that Colts playoff win. When he can pick apart a defense with the yardage we need, its also going to open up more opportunity for big plays he thrives at. I feel like we are perhaps watching Michael Jordan in his infancy. This kid can be that good. Protecting himself is a big part of that though too. 

He'll learn to stop forcing them. After the best start to a season by any QB he probably got too high and needed some reality check. As Reid mentioned he's just scratching the surface and I'm pretty sure the rock star status comes down a bit. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

57 minutes ago, sith13 said:

He'll learn to stop forcing them. After the best start to a season by any QB he probably got too high and needed some reality check. As Reid mentioned he's just scratching the surface and I'm pretty sure the rock star status comes down a bit. 

I'm not sure the rock star status is going away. He posted a workout on Instagram and got three times more likes than a Royals post about opening Spring training, KU basketball vs West Virginia post, Sporting KC training post in Arizona combined. This kid could be on the cusp of becoming the football version of Michael Jordan. 

[reesebobby 5,663]

20 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Reid always makes sure we draft an o-lineman.  Probably middle rounds.  We actually have a pretty deep line.  The backups got a lot of experience this last season.  It takes an O-lineman about 5 years to reach his peak.  Very, very few contribute much in the first year.  Still, I would not grade our O-line as a little above average.  Schwartz is one of the best if not THE best.  Morse is solid if we keep him. LDT is excellent.  Fisher rarely makes a whiff now that he has reached his peak.  I think most experts would rate us higher than a "little better than average." I agree with Marley, also. McKenzie will be able to contribute this year and keep getting better.  I am absolutely certain that the Chiefs are going to give their prize, Mahomes, both the protection and the run blocking to be safe and successful.

In the past 3 drafts, we took a converted defensive tackle in 2018 that may or may not ever play, no-one in 2017 and a 4th round Parker Ehinger in 2016.  At some point they need to get more serious about OL in the draft.  Mahomes can't run for his life for too many years and maintain this level of play.  

[Mloe68 1,521]

19 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

In the past 3 drafts, we took a converted defensive tackle in 2018 that may or may not ever play, no-one in 2017 and a 4th round Parker Ehinger in 2016.  At some point they need to get more serious about OL in the draft.  Mahomes can't run for his life for too many years and maintain this level of play.  

While true you also have to factor in the converted DT held a roster spot all year so they are clearly really high on his potential. Also while they didn't draft a guy in 2017  Veach did trade for a 24 year old former first round pick which to me is the same as drafting a player. So Reid teams do continue to draft offensive linemen in earnest. But I do agree at some point a high pick may need to be used at tackle. 

[DieHard 2,061]

20 hours ago, WichitaZRide said:

I must be missing something...Mahomes was bottom third in the league in both sacks and hits.  We have the highest rated RT in the league and our center has allowed 2 pressures in his last 28 games played.  

I hope say that not everything in the articles we read are correct. Likewise with PFF ratings. What is a fact is Mahones was hit more that the opposing QB in nearly every game we play. He is a bad ass at avoiding pressure and throwing on the run, which is why he is hard to sacks. 

We had 106 QB hits recorded by the NFL in the regular season. Only TB, ATL, SF, MIA, ARI, JAX, DAL and HOU had more than us. 

In the playoffs, only the Rams gave up more QB hits and they had an extra game.

Look I get it. People live LDT and Morse. We say LG is our only weakness. All I am saying is that the numbers (and my eyes watching Mahimes get hit by 2 or 3 people at once) suggest that we may need an upgrade. Especially if you consider the health history of this group.

 

 

 

[DieHard 2,061]

20 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

Mitchell Schwartz is just above avg?  Ok.   We were ranked 13th by PFF with half of our Oline injured for the entire year pretty much.   We easily rank top 10 if not for that and our QB likes to improvise, sometimes too much.   I don't think Mahomes took too many hard shots last year and we tossed the ball around a lot.

Swchartz is a very good RT to be clarify what I meant by above average.

So you thought we provided him adequate protection in the playoffs? OK. Guess we are good to go.

[DieHard 2,061]

21 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

At least part of that though is because we run deeper routes than most teams.  IE We ask a lot from our oline. That said I think LDT helps a lot and there’s considerable potential with McKenzie.  

That is a fair point. We do run a lot of deep routes.

[Lamardirts 2,121]

6 hours ago, DieHard said:

I hope say that not everything in the articles we read are correct. Likewise with PFF ratings. What is a fact is Mahones was hit more that the opposing QB in nearly every game we play. He is a bad ass at avoiding pressure and throwing on the run, which is why he is hard to sacks. 

We had 106 QB hits recorded by the NFL in the regular season. Only TB, ATL, SF, MIA, ARI, JAX, DAL and HOU had more than us. 

In the playoffs, only the Rams gave up more QB hits and they had an extra game.

Look I get it. People live LDT and Morse. We say LG is our only weakness. All I am saying is that the numbers (and my eyes watching Mahimes get hit by 2 or 3 people at once) suggest that we may need an upgrade. Especially if you consider the health history of this group.

 

 

 

I understand your point but we need more info.   How many more offensive snaps did we have than our opponents.  What was the percentage of qb hits compared to drop backs.   Did we not face some of the best defenses last year and how many of those hits could have been avoided had he thrown the ball away earlier or not tried to extend plays.   Sometimes he stood in the pocket and delivered a strike while taking a hit.   I think as he matures that will get better and the fact we had Jeff Allen along with some other backups also played a part.   He got hit 6.6 times a game, but does that mean he got laid out or a defender put his hands on him?   Because we were top 10 in sacks allowed.    I agree our Oline has to get better but I think we will just merely on being healthy and Mahomes maturing.   

[sith13 1,746]

9 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

I'm not sure the rock star status is going away. He posted a workout on Instagram and got three times more likes than a Royals post about opening Spring training, KU basketball vs West Virginia post, Sporting KC training post in Arizona combined. This kid could be on the cusp of becoming the football version of Michael Jordan. 

If he can live up to the MJ hype the status is inevitable but I'm guessing Reid is already making him realize that he needs to earn that status first.

[Mloe68 1,521]

56 minutes ago, sith13 said:

If he can live up to the MJ hype the status is inevitable but I'm guessing Reid is already making him realize that he needs to earn that status first.

Absolutely no doubt at some point Championships have to come to earn and keep a reputation as a superstar that almost transcends the game as Jordan did.  But even Jordan took 4 years to win MVP and 7 to win his first title. In the era of the NFL salary cap Patrick probably needs to notch his first sooner than that as we all hope and some almost now expect. 

And on point with this string this game is much more physically grueling than basketball and requires more help from teammates which is why we certainly do want to protect such a special talent as best as we reasonably can.  And that does start up front.  

[DieHard 2,061]

8 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

I understand your point but we need more info.   How many more offensive snaps did we have than our opponents.  What was the percentage of qb hits compared to drop backs.   Did we not face some of the best defenses last year and how many of those hits could have been avoided had he thrown the ball away earlier or not tried to extend plays.   Sometimes he stood in the pocket and delivered a strike while taking a hit.   I think as he matures that will get better and the fact we had Jeff Allen along with some other backups also played a part.   He got hit 6.6 times a game, but does that mean he got laid out or a defender put his hands on him?   Because we were top 10 in sacks allowed.    I agree our Oline has to get better but I think we will just merely on being healthy and Mahomes maturing.   

Sure. And I don’t know where you find that info. I guess it worries me because he is the one single player that you cannot lose. He is the franchise right now. Indy damn near killed Luck. I don’t want to make that mistake. Even though the D needs most of the talent up grade, I would find a stud G no matter what it took.

[sith13 1,746]

12 minutes ago, DieHard said:

Sure. And I don’t know where you find that info. I guess it worries me because he is the one single player that you cannot lose. He is the franchise right now. Indy damn near killed Luck. I don’t want to make that mistake. Even though the D needs most of the talent up grade, I would find a stud G no matter what it took.

Protecting Mahomes sure is a top priority but looking at the moves during the season I doubt they are looking at anything other than a new OC and they don't seem to be willing some of the young talent leave which doesn't open up any roster spots.

That being said looks like we signed Justin Senior. Back when he was drafted they really loved him in Seattle, similar to McKenzie in KC. He was released with an injury settlement but if fully healed he could be a real nice surprise as the swing tackle from day one with Erving fully establishing himself as the LG. 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

17 hours ago, reesebobby said:

In the past 3 drafts, we took a converted defensive tackle in 2018 that may or may not ever play, no-one in 2017 and a 4th round Parker Ehinger in 2016.  At some point they need to get more serious about OL in the draft.  Mahomes can't run for his life for too many years and maintain this level of play.  

Trade Ehringer for Charv Ward. So they basically drafted a starting CB with that pick. Wasnt a wasted pick even if Ehringer didnt pan out.

[reesebobby 5,663]

6 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Trade Ehringer for Charv Ward. So they basically drafted a starting CB with that pick. Wasnt a wasted pick even if Ehringer didnt pan out.

I wasn't saying it was a wasted pick, only that we haven't been very active in drafting O Line recently, contrary to the popular opinion that Reid always drafts linemen in every draft.

[soonerborn77 276]

On 2/17/2019 at 9:08 PM, CranjisMcbasketball said:

The return of ldt and the replacement of morse should help tremendously 

Agreed, Wylie and Reiter did well also so if you have LDT, Wylie and Reiter in the middle I think we will see a big improvement already.

[reesebobby 5,663]

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 8:42 AM, Mloe68 said:

Also in NE game Mahomes needed to recognize constant blitzes and get ball to hot read faster.  Oline was inconsistent all around outside of Schwartz so they do need to improve, but there’s other stuff in play.  And I think all that experience, especially in the playoffs will do wonders for Mahomes development. 

You can't put that on Mahomes.  He didn't have time to even hit a hot read.  Pressure was coming from everywhere.  We couldn't run the ball at all.  He was under duress all night from the very first snap.  H

[dksww 484]

The OL is like the least of my worries going into this off-season.  The only story here is how Reiter replacing M. Morse unless he's willing to sign for dirt cheap, which probably won't happen. 

If Morse gets a huge offer the Chiefs need to let him walk.  Hopefully it's enough to net us a 3rd round comp in the 2020 draft.

The Chiefs have bigger needs on defense at all 3 levels and will probably use the first 3-4 rounds on that , then look to add depth on offense for OL, RB and TE in rounds 5-7. 

The players added for offensive depth won't be flashy, but the Chiefs don't need much(on offense) and could always scavenge free agents and undrafted rookies during the summer and TC.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

35 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

You can't put that on Mahomes.  He didn't have time to even hit a hot read.  Pressure was coming from everywhere.  We couldn't run the ball at all.  He was under duress all night from the very first snap.  H

He learned a lot.  Add that experience to his abilities, intelligence, and work ethic, and I can't even imagine how good he is going to be.   Age 23 and was a coin flip from a super bowl.  I see nothing but good things ahead.

[Troyofoc 361]

1 hour ago, soonerborn77 said:

Agreed, Wylie and Reiter did well also so if you have LDT, Wylie and Reiter in the middle I think we will see a big improvement already.

I agree I think that lineup would be an improvement.

[Mloe68 1,521]

2 hours ago, reesebobby said:

You can't put that on Mahomes.  He didn't have time to even hit a hot read.  Pressure was coming from everywhere.  We couldn't run the ball at all.  He was under duress all night from the very first snap.  H

I watched a pretty good film breakdown and Mahomes has to shoulder some of the blame in the first half.  He either had an open WR or needed to check out of plays. When you bring extra pressure, somebody has to be open. He also missed a wide open Williams for an easy TD.  

My point is simply that BB is great at exploiting inexperience at QB and Mahomes will learn from it.  Heck he did within that game and the overall experience will just make him better when he’s there again. Patrick can learn from experience how to make things easier on himself.