dksww 484 Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 48 minutes ago, KC Warpaint said: can you trade a franchise tagged player for another tagged player?? Ford for Collins Ya, you can. I dont' think the NYG are tagging Collins tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 On 2/19/2019 at 3:41 PM, Mloe68 said: He's also a clearly declining player. He's simply not worth what we are supposed to pay him. If he takes a significant pay cut, I'd bring him back sure. IDK, people say and think this but PFF gave him an 85 overall grade for 2018 season. With the coaching change I'd be fine with keeping him. It would be interesting to see what he can do with a real DC. He really hasn't had one in KC his whole career. Sutton and Crennel were a joke in KC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, dksww said: IDK, people say and think this but PFF gave him an 85 overall grade for 2018 season. With the coaching change I'd be fine with keeping him. It would be interesting to see what he can do with a real DC. He really hasn't had one in KC his whole career. Sutton and Crennel were a joke in KC. He's always been a beast vs the run but that really slipped this year. I just saw a guy who didn't look like he had the will or energy to chase down backside plays with consistency anymore. He's still got real value at the right price. But with a CAP hit over 20 million and with our ability to sign a lower priced legit replacement with the 14 million we save, I'm right where I've been all year that he either takes a pay cut or gets cut. But don't get me wrong. At 10 million he's still a real value to a roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iluvhouse24 1,808 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 18 minutes ago, dksww said: Ya, you can. I dont' think the NYG are tagging Collins tho. If they dont tag him, he's a Chief. Designate Berry as a post June 1, spread out that dead money, draft Deionte Thompson rd 1 and BAM!... We have a dynamic trio of safeties with those 2 and Watts. I know some are down on Thompson, but as far as ability and upside go, he's still the best FS in the draft in my mind. Sign a CB and draft one in rd 2 as well as later...this secondary startin to look like something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Iluvhouse24 said: If they dont tag him, he's a Chief. Designate Berry as a post June 1, spread out that dead money, draft Deionte Thompson rd 1 and BAM!... We have a dynamic trio of safeties with those 2 and Watts. I know some are down on Thompson, but as far as ability and upside go, he's still the best FS in the draft in my mind. Sign a CB and draft 1 in rd 2 as well as later...this defense startin to look like something! It's possible, I'm just not sure they'll cut Berry, Sorenson and Murray all at once, but I could be wrong. It would just mean we have to replace 3 Safties this off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: He's always been a beast vs the run but that really slipped this year. I just saw a guy who didn't look like he had the will or energy to chase down backside plays with consistency anymore. He's still got real value at the right price. But with a CAP hit over 20 million and with our ability to sign a lower priced legit replacement with the 14 million we save, I'm right where I've been all year that he either takes a pay cut or gets cut. But don't get me wrong. At 10 million he's still a real value to a roster. Again, scheme and coaching. Dead money has been this teams' Achilles heel since John Dorsey took over in 2013. It might be best for the Chiefs to just eat the cap space for this season and cut Berry and Houston next year when there's minimal dead $ attached. As LuvHouse and I have pointed out over the years, the Chiefs, or any NFL team, ONLY have to be under the cap by the start of the new league year which is March 13th 4pm EST. After that, you can spend over the cap, you just have to be under it again by the start of the next league year. Plus, the Chiefs have tons of cap room for 2020 and beyond in which they can defer bigger cap hits to free agents, Jones and Hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iluvhouse24 1,808 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, dksww said: It's possible, I'm just not sure they'll cut Berry, Sorenson and Murray all at once, but I could be wrong. It would just mean we have to replace 3 Safties this off-season. Well you know Sorenson and Murray are gone. They are both terrible and free up almost 5 mill between them. Watts and Lucas ( who we should resign) csn replace those 2. Berry is the big question mark. My gut tells me they are done wondering with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okiechief1 425 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 On 2/20/2019 at 12:50 AM, sith13 said: I don't think we can cancel the tag if Ford signs the tender and it becomes guaranteed. We could have another Albert-type situation at hand but with worse cap ramifications. If you ask me we wouldn't go out paying Flowers big money if we haven't already traded Ford. As soon as the tag is signed by the player the team can no longer cancel it. Ford has already indicated he will sign it. It's kinda interesting reading thru some of his quotes, most players hate the tag, he almost welcomes it and seems to be more about the team than the money. Just to bad the dude has the injury history he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Okiechief1 said: As soon as the tag is signed by the player the team can no longer cancel it. Ford has already indicated he will sign it. It's kinda interesting reading thru some of his quotes, most players hate the tag, he almost welcomes it and seems to be more about the team than the money. Just to bad the dude has the injury history he has. I'm pretty sure if a player is tagged and signs the tag, the team and a player have time to negotiate an extension that would change the current year cap hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dksww 484 Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said: Well you know Sorenson and Murray are gone. They are both terrible and free up almost 5 mill between them. Watts and Lucas ( who we should resign) csn replace those 2. Berry is the big question mark. My gut tells me they are done wondering with him. I could see that, but I'm not sold they're cutting Berry. Veach has yet to cut a player with a ton of dead $ attached and I think Veach and Reid understand Sutton was the issue and will probably give Houston and Berry one more season to get it figured out. Next year, they're both extremely team friendly to be cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okiechief1 425 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, dksww said: I'm pretty sure if a player is tagged and signs the tag, the team and a player have time to negotiate an extension that would change the current year cap hit. They do, I think it's up until sometime in July they can do an extension. My comment was more about the team rescinding the tag. Once the tag is signed by the player the team loses that option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 29 minutes ago, Okiechief1 said: As soon as the tag is signed by the player the team can no longer cancel it. Ford has already indicated he will sign it. It's kinda interesting reading thru some of his quotes, most players hate the tag, he almost welcomes it and seems to be more about the team than the money. Just to bad the dude has the injury history he has. Never stated his intention though. If he's willing to sign the tag as a good team player that helps Veach a lot but there's the risk of injury with no future guarantees. Signing the tag also allows the team to trade him away to a place where he can get the big extension right away, that could be what he's looking for similar to Allen back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iluvhouse24 1,808 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 33 minutes ago, dksww said: I could see that, but I'm not sold they're cutting Berry. Veach has yet to cut a player with a ton of dead $ attached and I think Veach and Reid understand Sutton was the issue and will probably give Houston and Berry one more season to get it figured out. Next year, they're both extremely team friendly to be cut. He cannot be a question mark any longer. If they arent 100% he can go by camp they need to part ways. Uncertainty at that position is killing us cap wise and roster wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said: He cannot be a question mark any longer. If they arent 100% he can go by camp they need to part ways. Uncertainty at that position is killing us cap wise and roster wise. At this point I think he's coming back 100% or it's an injury settlement. I doubt they will drag the heel thing any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomahawkChop 255 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 47 minutes ago, Okiechief1 said: They do, I think it's up until sometime in July they can do an extension. My comment was more about the team rescinding the tag. Once the tag is signed by the player the team loses that option. Once the tag is signed an extension can be performed at any time. However, if the tag is placed but not signed, the team and player have until July to work on a long term extension. If no agreement is reached the player can sign the offer and play out that year on the tag or it sign it and don’t play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,597 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 On 2/21/2019 at 9:02 AM, Iluvhouse24 said: If they dont tag him, he's a Chief. Designate Berry as a post June 1, spread out that dead money, draft Deionte Thompson rd 1 and BAM!... We have a dynamic trio of safeties with those 2 and Watts. I know some are down on Thompson, but as far as ability and upside go, he's still the best FS in the draft in my mind. Sign a CB and draft one in rd 2 as well as later...this secondary startin to look like something! I would look to get a TE with the other 2nd round pick if Hockensen, Fant or the Alabama TE is there, Smith I think his name is? That would help with our TE sets, blocking and in case injury to Kelce Hockensen I would love to have as he us a beast in blocking but I think he goes mid to late 1st as of now pre combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Spags said he was still working on how he would use Dee Ford, but said he could defintely use him. If that makes sense. For the record the tag for a DE is like 17 compared to 14 for an LB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,597 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: Spags said he was still working on how he would use Dee Ford, but said he could defintely use him. If that makes sense. For the record the tag for a DE is like 17 compared to 14 for an LB. Well you know they, him and his agents, will argue he is a DE for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 5 hours ago, kkuenn said: Well you know they, him and his agents, will argue he is a DE for sure and I think he'll win that argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 59 minutes ago, liquidfriend said: and I think he'll win that argument He’s been a LB since he got here and Spags was almost intentionally downplaying switch to 4-3. This will be interesting. We are going to know for sure in the next 10 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamardirts 2,114 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Mloe68 said: He’s been a LB since he got here and Spags was almost intentionally downplaying switch to 4-3. This will be interesting. We are going to know for sure in the next 10 days. I agree Mloe. Not sure how his agent has anything to stand on in this argument. He's never played as a 4-3 DE so just because our DC might run a 4-3 doesn't and shouldn't weigh into the argument as it would be pure conjecture or speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 He may be an edge rusher but rather than a position it is just a role and he only played OLB throughout his career. No way they can get a DE tag just because he might play that in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 4 hours ago, Mloe68 said: He’s been a LB since he got here and Spags was almost intentionally downplaying switch to 4-3. This will be interesting. We are going to know for sure in the next 10 days. It's clever, but this will go through arbitration where the players are generally favored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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