Mloe68 1,521 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 8 hours ago, sith13 said: As a resident of Seattle I would disagree about Thomas being better at anything other than availability. He has been much healthier but if he was our pick I'm not sure if we would even stick with him after his rookie deal. He's more of a product of his supporting cast than sheer talent as he has been showing time after time whenever they had some injury troubles, especially with Chancellor who has been touted as the better Safety. Thomas next to guys like Lewis or Dirty Dan or whatever we had at CB would have been a disaster for us. His pay has a huge part in it but he has been criticized more than any other player in town including Sherman the diva. Berry is one of those guys that makes others around him better like a QB. Wagner is the Seattle version of that and Thomas benefited greatly from his presence as well as Kam who should have been one of our picks in that draft. Thomas grades out as clearly the best safety since entering the league. He has more production than any other safety since entering the league. And he has actual playoff hardware to back that up. Meanwhile the Chiefs were 13-2 last year without Berry and 0-3 with him. Go look at comments from the rest of the Legion of Boom and they will tell you that Thomas was the catalyst of the entire group. From PFF Since the start of the 2012 season, Thomas has six more interceptions than any other defensive back when lined up as a deep-lying free safety. He also leads all safeties in forced incompletions from that alignment. Typically, that alignment is designed to protect the defense from the big play over the top. In cover-3, the safety is just supposed to ward off those deep passes down the middle of the field, and if he has the range and skills to make it over to help the outside cornerbacks, then he adds more value to the position. Where Thomas is different is that he can protect the defense from those deep passes and still be a factor on plays underneath those deep zones. His range extends vertically as well as horizontally across the field. Over that same time frame, Thomas has six more defensive stops (tackles which constitute an offensive failure on the play) than any other safety, and most of the next-closest players are run-stuffing strong safeties by trade that saw significantly fewer snaps at free safety than he did. And even when they were put in that position, they clearly had eyes for the underneath plays more than a natural free safety would. Thomas had more tackles and assists than any other safety from that free safety alignment too, and even on a per-snap basis, was significantly more ‘active’ when it comes to featuring in the play statistically than most other free safeties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAChiefsFan79 136 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: Thomas grades out as clearly the best safety since entering the league. He has more production than any other safety since entering the league. And he has actual playoff hardware to back that up. Meanwhile the Chiefs were 13-2 last year without Berry and 0-3 with him. Go look at comments from the rest of the Legion of Boom and they will tell you that Thomas was the catalyst of the entire group. From PFF Since the start of the 2012 season, Thomas has six more interceptions than any other defensive back when lined up as a deep-lying free safety. He also leads all safeties in forced incompletions from that alignment. Typically, that alignment is designed to protect the defense from the big play over the top. In cover-3, the safety is just supposed to ward off those deep passes down the middle of the field, and if he has the range and skills to make it over to help the outside cornerbacks, then he adds more value to the position. Where Thomas is different is that he can protect the defense from those deep passes and still be a factor on plays underneath those deep zones. His range extends vertically as well as horizontally across the field. Over that same time frame, Thomas has six more defensive stops (tackles which constitute an offensive failure on the play) than any other safety, and most of the next-closest players are run-stuffing strong safeties by trade that saw significantly fewer snaps at free safety than he did. And even when they were put in that position, they clearly had eyes for the underneath plays more than a natural free safety would. Thomas had more tackles and assists than any other safety from that free safety alignment too, and even on a per-snap basis, was significantly more ‘active’ when it comes to featuring in the play statistically than most other free safeties. To be fair, Eric Berry wasn't used like Earl Thomas until later in his years. Remember when he was mostly used as a run stopping safety and coverage in short to intermediate routes. His production wouldn't be on point with Thomas's because of that. Berry I don't think took on that role until after his cancer treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidfriend 1,151 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 15 hours ago, Calichief said: I’ll disagree in the talent part. Earl played next to Kam, Sherman, and maxwell.. berry played with no one on that level Eh. Playing next to Sean Smith at the end of his prime, Marcus Peters and a still somewhat effective Ron Parker wasn't too horrible. Not Legion of Boom no, but still not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: Thomas grades out as clearly the best safety since entering the league. He has more production than any other safety since entering the league. And he has actual playoff hardware to back that up. Meanwhile the Chiefs were 13-2 last year without Berry and 0-3 with him. Go look at comments from the rest of the Legion of Boom and they will tell you that Thomas was the catalyst of the entire group. From PFF Since the start of the 2012 season, Thomas has six more interceptions than any other defensive back when lined up as a deep-lying free safety. He also leads all safeties in forced incompletions from that alignment. Typically, that alignment is designed to protect the defense from the big play over the top. In cover-3, the safety is just supposed to ward off those deep passes down the middle of the field, and if he has the range and skills to make it over to help the outside cornerbacks, then he adds more value to the position. Where Thomas is different is that he can protect the defense from those deep passes and still be a factor on plays underneath those deep zones. His range extends vertically as well as horizontally across the field. Over that same time frame, Thomas has six more defensive stops (tackles which constitute an offensive failure on the play) than any other safety, and most of the next-closest players are run-stuffing strong safeties by trade that saw significantly fewer snaps at free safety than he did. And even when they were put in that position, they clearly had eyes for the underneath plays more than a natural free safety would. Thomas had more tackles and assists than any other safety from that free safety alignment too, and even on a per-snap basis, was significantly more ‘active’ when it comes to featuring in the play statistically than most other free safeties. Don't know why they started with 2012 since he has been in the league since 2010. Most of those numbers are a matter of availability rather than talent. He has accumulated higher numbers (although not in every area) because he played more but his averages are much lower with the exception of interceptions. Also if you are focused on just the numbers can you find any season where Thomas and Berry were healthy and Thomas actually had better numbers? If you change the 2012 to 2015 Thomas would have half the interceptions that Peters had, etc. That's how much numbers do lie. Thomas is a great player and is a lot more healthier but most of his career has been just laying back freely and watching Kam doing the dirty work. He has been the king of assisted tackles, might be leading NFL in that area as well. Here's a really good summary of safeties here in Seattle, you would be surprised how often we have seen such plays: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ7KLWv7BMI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thegoatee 1,786 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Politically incorrect question: if Berry doesn’t have cancer, does he get considered? Does he even get that big contract? I personally think he is a good guy and had two or three good seasons, but he is also used by KC and the NFL as good PR. Much in the same way Chuck Pagano got a long leash for being incredibly mediocre. I don’t hate the guy. I just think his personal recovery from cancer inflated his legend and actual performance somewhat because people wanted him to succeed to be that inspirational story to sell more product and seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Thegoatee said: Politically incorrect question: if Berry doesn’t have cancer, does he get considered? Does he even get that big contract? I personally think he is a good guy and had two or three good seasons, but he is also used by KC and the NFL as good PR. Much in the same way Chuck Pagano got a long leash for being incredibly mediocre. I don’t hate the guy. I just think his personal recovery from cancer inflated his legend and actual performance somewhat because people wanted him to succeed to be that inspirational story to sell more product and seats. Yep. It wasn't the cancer that got him the deal it was his performance coming back. Cancer was definitely a factor in him staying at the end of his deal but the new one has nothing to do with that. In the tagged year Berry put up one of the best seasons by a Safety in the history of the NFL, which is what fooled Dorsey and Hunt to pay him the big bucks as if he was a consistently healthy guy. Just don't pay injured guys big money and you will never be in cap hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 In comparing Berry and Thomas it is apples and oranges. Berry is not a good center fielder. I can count on one hand the number of deep passed he broke up. He was a stud close to the LOS and covering TEs. Just what I remember but no numbers to back it up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 17 hours ago, sith13 said: Yep. It wasn't the cancer that got him the deal it was his performance coming back. Cancer was definitely a factor in him staying at the end of his deal but the new one has nothing to do with that. In the tagged year Berry put up one of the best seasons by a Safety in the history of the NFL, which is what fooled Dorsey and Hunt to pay him the big bucks as if he was a consistently healthy guy. Just don't pay injured guys big money and you will never be in cap hell. Most every player in the NFL gets injured at some point. I mean I get what you're saying, but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.