Mloe68 1,521 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 21 minutes ago, jetlord said: Wouldn't he still cost the Chiefs a boat load of cap space? If we cut him tomorrow and designate him post June 1... The way I'm looking at it we would have 7.5 million in dead cap this year and next year. But get CAP savings of 7 million this season and 4 million next season. It's possible! But it has to be done by March 15th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,210 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Just now, Mloe68 said: If we cut him tomorrow and designate him post June 1... The way I'm looking at it we would have 7.5 million in dead cap this year and next year. But get CAP savings of 7 million this season and 4 million next season. It's possible! But it has to be done by March 15th. So the question has to be asked, "Is the chance Berry can play effectively next season worth $7MM?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 minute ago, jetlord said: So the question has to be asked, "Is the chance Berry can play effectively next season worth $7MM?" Or can KC get a decent for sure safety for 7 million like Weddle etc? I want to know the guy can play at 7 million invested & cap space taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer 8,694 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Mloe68 said: Berry can absolutely play free safety. He has all the time. He did in his last three games. I'll finish that statement.."In which we lost and which he was ineffective in " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, oldtimer said: I'll finish that statement.."In which we lost and which he was ineffective in " Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 38 minutes ago, oldtimer said: I'll finish that statement.."In which we lost and which he was ineffective in " He was ineffective in the playoff game for sure. He played well back there vs the Chargers. And Seattle just ran all over us and it we probably would have been better served with him in the box. But on point he didn't do much of anything, anywhere last year. That doesn't change the reality he has often played free safety in his career. Notion he is only a strong safety is completely wrong. If he is actually healthy he can play anywhere. What are the odds he will be though. Doesn't seem good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CranjisMcbasketball 781 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Collins and berry are essentially the same player, they are both in the box run stuffing safeties who are below average in pass coverage, i dont see how or why you would want both on the roster. collins is the more available player, and i think has more upside to improve to a competent pass defender. having collins and weddle in the backend and getting rid of ford, houston, and berry seems more likely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said: Collins and berry are essentially the same player, they are both in the box run stuffing safeties who are below average in pass coverage, i dont see how or why you would want both on the roster. collins is the more available player, and i think has more upside to improve to a competent pass defender. having collins and weddle in the backend and getting rid of ford, houston, and berry seems more likely Yes no point in reliving the is he available to play/day to day season again. Way to big a distraction. Im sure Reid was way tired of it too. Time for Berry to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIChiefsFan 262 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, FANATIC said: So do you think KC will or should cut him after June 1st? Can they use that money saved to extend current player contracts? Maybe pick up other post June 1st cuts? It is hard to say without knowing what we have planned in terms of extending Hill and Jones and how those deals will be structured. As a fan, I would like to see him designated post-June 1 and use that money to help us win now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIChiefsFan 262 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said: Collins and berry are essentially the same player, they are both in the box run stuffing safeties who are below average in pass coverage, i dont see how or why you would want both on the roster. collins is the more available player, and i think has more upside to improve to a competent pass defender. having collins and weddle in the backend and getting rid of ford, houston, and berry seems more likely Not that tackles are the be all and end all, but Landon Collins has almost as many tackles in 4 years as Berry does in his 9 year career. This speaks to Berry's availability over those 9 years but also Collins averages 7.41 tackles per game and Berry averages 5. Simply put, even a guaranteed to be healthy Berry next year is not worth the money. I like Weddle too and he seems to still be able to get it done, it would be nice to have him on a reasonable contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,024 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, oldtimer said: I'll finish that statement.."In which we lost and which he was ineffective in " Couldn’t stop a play we all saw coming. Or even get into position on a broken down tight end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balto 723 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 I’d also make Berry a post June 1 cut and gain $9.55M. Then I’d turn around and give Collins that AND also sign Weddle for say $5M. yes we have some young talent but a combo of young Collins and the vet Weddle would go along ways to help the secondary while letting the young guys learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Balto said: I’d also make Berry a post June 1 cut and gain $9.55M. Then I’d turn around and give Collins that AND also sign Weddle for say $5M. yes we have some young talent but a combo of young Collins and the vet Weddle would go along ways to help the secondary while letting the young guys learn. Berry has way too many guarantees to be cut this year and paying a guy like Weddle will already take away any savings. A season of Berry and Collins and a mid round pick rotating in and then Collins taking over Berry's salary makes more sense. If we go with Weddle I think it's just to start a year with Berry for the SB push and Collins would be out of the equation. If there was any thoughts about cutting Berry they wouldn't make him a June 1st cut when his guarantees kick in but rather do it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 9 hours ago, Balto said: I’d also make Berry a post June 1 cut and gain $9.55M. Then I’d turn around and give Collins that AND also sign Weddle for say $5M. yes we have some young talent but a combo of young Collins and the vet Weddle would go along ways to help the secondary while letting the young guys learn. I thought about that this morming after I posted I thought we'd save a pretty significant amount this year if we do cut him with a June 1 designation. But how can that be? 7 million of his salary becomes guaranteed in 9 days. If we cut him with a post June 1 designation it then seems logical he would get that money since he would technically be on the roster on March 15th. And then we end up saving next to nothing. I'd love some clarification! If this is the case Veach thas no real options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,613 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: I thought about that this morming after I posted I thought we'd save a pretty significant amount this year if we do cut him with a June 1 designation. But how can that be? 7 million of his salary becomes guaranteed in 9 days. If we cut him with a post June 1 designation it then seems logical he would get that money since he would technically be on the roster on March 15th. And then we end up saving next to nothing. I'd love some clarification! If this is the case Veach thas no real options. You can cut him now and get the post cut 1 June designation but the money does not become available until after the 1st. I believe this is how it works. You then have dead money next year for his contract that everything left guaranteed is hit next year. So if we sign Collins and trade or release Houston and trade Ford we would be in a good situation. We though would have to wait to use the other money saved and who knows who is available then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 18 minutes ago, kkuenn said: You can cut him now and get the post cut 1 June designation but the money does not become available until after the 1st. I believe this is how it works. You then have dead money next year for his contract that everything left guaranteed is hit next year. So if we sign Collins and trade or release Houston and trade Ford we would be in a good situation. We though would have to wait to use the other money saved and who knows who is available then? Still don't know the figures though. He has 12 million of his signing bonus left over and his 12.4 million salary for 2019 becomes fully guaranteed on March 13th. So that's 24.4 million in dead money. That's way too much dead money for 2020 as the numbers seem 7 million this year with 17 next year. Might make more sense just to cut him now without the June 1st designation and be done with 12 million dead money. Frankly we don't need that much cap for 2019 as rookie extensions don't count against the cap unless the team wants to and we already have enough money for a free agent as well as the relatively cheap spending once Houston is off the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,663 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Is anyone else tired of how complicated this salary cap thing is? Mother Trucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, kkuenn said: You can cut him now and get the post cut 1 June designation but the money does not become available until after the 1st. I believe this is how it works. You then have dead money next year for his contract that everything left guaranteed is hit next year. So if we sign Collins and trade or release Houston and trade Ford we would be in a good situation. We though would have to wait to use the other money saved and who knows who is available then? Okay. So if we release Berry with that June 1 designation, we are not responsible for the guranateed money that hits on March 15th. So we would save about 9 million this year (but not technically get that CAP relief until June 1) and 6 million next year. Or we can keep him and release him after the season and save only 5.5 million but end up with far less dead cap. So this does have to be on Veach's radar and indeed make it a tough call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, sith13 said: Still don't know the figures though. He has 12 million of his signing bonus left over and his 12.4 million salary for 2019 becomes fully guaranteed on March 13th. So that's 24.4 million in dead money. That's way too much dead money for 2020 as the numbers seem 7 million this year with 17 next year. Might make more sense just to cut him now without the June 1st designation and be done with 12 million dead money. Frankly we don't need that much cap for 2019 as rookie extensions don't count against the cap unless the team wants to and we already have enough money for a free agent as well as the relatively cheap spending once Houston is off the books. I think I've got this straight. Berry has 14.9 million that we have to account for on the salary cap if we cut him today. If we cut him after March 15th add another 7.25 million which is the amount of his 2019 salary that would be guaranteed at that point. So obviously if he's on the roster a week from tomorrow its clear Veach has made his decision. His CAP hit right now is scheduled to be 16.5 million but if we cut him tomorrow we don't owe any of his 2019 salary however the outstanding dead cap escalates and all becomes due. So we save essentially 1.5 million now and 13.5 million next season. Or we can cut him with a post June 1 designation which would essentially divide the 14.9 million where half is dead money this year and the other half next year. Since his CAP number is 16.5 million right now you would subtract half of the 14.9 million or 7.45 from the 16.5 million to give us a CAP savings in 2019 of 9.05 million. Do the same next year and we save 6.05 million in 2020. Its not ideal by any means. But its doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,663 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: I think I've got this straight. Berry has 14.9 million that we have to account for on the salary cap if we cut him today. If we cut him after March 15th add another 7.25 million which is the amount of his 2019 salary that would be guaranteed at that point. So obviously if he's on the roster a week from tomorrow its clear Veach has made his decision. His CAP hit right now is scheduled to be 16.5 million but if we cut him tomorrow we don't owe any of his 2019 salary however the outstanding dead cap escalates and all becomes due. So we save essentially 1.5 million now and 13.5 million next season. Or we can cut him with a post June 1 designation which would essentially divide the 14.9 million where half is dead money this year and the other half next year. Since his CAP number is 16.5 million right now you would subtract half of the 14.9 million or 7.45 from the 16.5 million to give us a CAP savings in 2019 of 9.05 million. Do the same next year and we save 6.05 million in 2020. Its not ideal by any means. But its doable. Also, a train leaves New York heading west at 12 PM traveling 100 miles per hour. A second train leaves Los Angeles an hour later traveling east at 75 miles per hour.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,613 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, reesebobby said: Also, a train leaves New York heading west at 12 PM traveling 100 miles per hour. A second train leaves Los Angeles an hour later traveling east at 75 miles per hour.... Potato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 16 minutes ago, reesebobby said: Also, a train leaves New York heading west at 12 PM traveling 100 miles per hour. A second train leaves Los Angeles an hour later traveling east at 75 miles per hour.... LOL. Let's hope a Masters in Education that Veach has trumps a Bachelors Degree in Economics that Dorsey has when it comes to solving your classic question. Maybe this should be on a chalk board from GMs during the interview process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,663 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, kkuenn said: Potato I always missed that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Cut Berry post June 1 2019 Dead Money against cap 6,950,000 Save $9,550,000 against the Cap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,024 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Handswarmer said: Cut Berry post June 1 2019 Dead Money against cap 6,950,000 Save $9,550,000 against the Cap That’s what’s happening in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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