Hill Investigated for Battery. Oh no.

[reesebobby 5,661]

1 hour ago, Handswarmer said:

Again, Jamal Lewis made a phone call. He didn't deal drugs, drive the guy to the buy or handle the cash. He made a phone call.

Hill was present at two alleged incidences of child abuse at his house.

Jamal pled guilty to a crime and spent 4 months in prison.  Your Ravens goggles are overpowering your brain on this one. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

1 hour ago, Joe_Chief said:

Goddamn it, get your murder method right!  That shit matters, you know!! 🙄

Sorry!  I'll try to get my murder methods straight.

[soonerborn77 276]

On 4/21/2019 at 3:07 PM, NChiefsCorner said:

When he signed a contract, he is the property of the Chiefs, so everything he does from that point on will reflect on the team, so if the Chiefs can't ask him to pick another partner to marry, they will have no choice but to trade or release him.

[wilkie 1,518]

Personal conduct part of performance contract and it is enforceable

[Handswarmer 645]

16 hours ago, reesebobby said:

Jamal pled guilty to a crime and spent 4 months in prison.  Your Ravens goggles are overpowering your brain on this one. 

Lewis pleaded guilty to trying to set up the drug deal a few months after the Ravens chose him No. 5 overall in the 2000 NFL draft. No drugs ever exchanged hands.

Prosecutors agreed to drop more serious drug conspiracy and attempted cocaine possession charges.

Explaining the short sentence, the judge said the government didn't have a strong case and noted the only witness against Lewis was an informant with a lengthy criminal record.

[Handswarmer 645]

10 hours ago, wilkie said:

Personal conduct part of performance contract and it is enforceable

WINNER WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER

[Adamixoye 604]

10 hours ago, wilkie said:

Personal conduct part of performance contract and it is enforceable

 

5 minutes ago, Handswarmer said:

WINNER WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER

If there is evidence that Tyreek was involved in some substantial way other than simply being the child's father and living the same house, then discipline is absolutely a possibility.

My initial post regarding this line of thinking was responding to the idea that Hill could be subject to discipline simply because the alleged abuse happened to his child, even if there was not evidence that he committed or even "allowed" the abuse.  A mere affiliation or association with the alleged incident, not truly an "accessory" in the objective, legal, and technical ways that J. and R. Lewis were.  My point is that there is no precedent for discipline for more association.

But by all means, keep trotting out irrelevant examples while simultaneously defending Raven criminal behavior.

[Handswarmer 645]

17 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

 

If there is evidence that Tyreek was involved in some substantial way other than simply being the child's father and living the same house, then discipline is absolutely a possibility.

My initial post regarding this line of thinking was responding to the idea that Hill could be subject to discipline simply because the alleged abuse happened to his child, even if there was not evidence that he committed or even "allowed" the abuse.  A mere affiliation or association with the alleged incident, not truly an "accessory" in the objective, legal, and technical ways that J. and R. Lewis were.  My point is that there is no precedent for discipline for more association.

But by all means, keep trotting out irrelevant examples while simultaneously defending Raven criminal behavior.

Exactly how is showing you that relatively minor infractions resulted in major felonies "defending criminal behavior" ?

By no means am I defending 'my' players, just like there is no defense of Jovan Belcher, Greg Hardy, Rae Carruth and a host of others, no matter what team they play for...

My exact point is that something that we deem as minor can end up being much larger in the eyes of the court and the NFL

[Mloe68 1,521]

11 hours ago, wilkie said:

Personal conduct part of performance contract and it is enforceable

It would be completely unprecedented for the league to suspend a player on nothing but circumstantial evidence. Because the Freedom of Information Act does not apply to family court it sure seems like the league has been stonewalled of any real facts. It’s unlikely they even know if Tyreek was in the house when the kids injury occurred. 

That said Article 46 gives Goodell unbelievable powers and unlike his predecessor he’s shown himself consistently willing to press those boundaries. In several cases to the point he was challenged and lost in Federal Court. But he’s clearly has the thought process of a dictator who can apply this rule to anyone, anytime. 

As it pertains to Tyreek though he’s never had an issue since entering the league. There were absolutely no charges filed here and again as of right now I have a hard to believing anyone knows much of anything. And maybe Tyreek is lucky in that way. Hard to say. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

1 hour ago, Handswarmer said:

Lewis pleaded guilty to trying to set up the drug deal a few months after the Ravens chose him No. 5 overall in the 2000 NFL draft. No drugs ever exchanged hands.

Prosecutors agreed to drop more serious drug conspiracy and attempted cocaine possession charges.

Explaining the short sentence, the judge said the government didn't have a strong case and noted the only witness against Lewis was an informant with a lengthy criminal record.

Jamal was really lucky it was Tagliabue running the league and not Goodell or he may never have seen the field. Most people don’t seem to realize Article 46 has existed for quite some time, it’s just never been pressed to its limits like Goodell has. 

[Adamixoye 604]

1 hour ago, Handswarmer said:

Exactly how is showing you that relatively minor infractions resulted in major felonies "defending criminal behavior" ?

By no means am I defending 'my' players, just like there is no defense of Jovan Belcher, Greg Hardy, Rae Carruth and a host of others, no matter what team they play for...

My exact point is that something that we deem as minor can end up being much larger in the eyes of the court and the NFL

• "Jamaal just made phone call"
• "Ray just broke up a fight"
• "No one got shot"

Yeah, definitely doesn't sound like you're downplaying those incidents at all.

And again, that all misses the point.  You made an earlier statement that Tyreek was "in the house at the time" of the instances of abuse - do we even know that?  We do not.

IIRC Ray Lewis wasn't suspended for his incident, so it's pretty much irrelevant (though as Mloe points out, it was a different league under Paul than Roger), and actually supports my point - you'll need something more substantial before Tyreek could be suspended, rather than just affiliation and innuendo.

[ATLchief 3,126]

1 hour ago, Mloe68 said:

It would be completely unprecedented for the league to suspend a player on nothing but circumstantial evidence.

What about Ezekiel Elliott?  Was the evidence in that case anything other than circumstantial?

Not arguing.  Serious question(s).

[Okiechief1 425]

Goodell doesn't need precedent to hand down a suspension.  He is the judge jury and executioner  and him hearing any appeals.   

[Adamixoye 604]

8 minutes ago, ATLchief said:

What about Ezekiel Elliott?  Was the evidence in that case anything other than circumstantial?

Not arguing.  Serious question(s).

IIRC:  the alleged victim made a claim, there was evidence, but charges were dropped I believe in part because she did not pursue it.  Not even close to the lack of info we have regarding this case with Tyreek.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

6 minutes ago, ATLchief said:

What about Ezekiel Elliott?  Was the evidence in that case anything other than circumstantial?

Not arguing.  Serious question(s).

 Right.  The league is not a criminal courtroom.  Circumstantial vs. hard evidence does not bind them.  If it "looks" bad to the league, they can suspend, just like any private business can fire. If Hill "looks bad" to the league on this one, he will be suspended.  How long depends on how bad it "looks." Simple as that.

[Adamixoye 604]

Goodell does not have 100% authority though.  Brady fought and delayed his suspension forever before finally giving up, and Elliott got his reduced.  If Goodell suspends Tyreek purely on "optics" (and again, that has NOT happened), then there will be a huge legal battle for sure.

[ATLchief 3,126]

4 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

Goodell does not have 100% authority though.  Brady fought and delayed his suspension forever before finally giving up, and Elliott got his reduced.  If Goodell suspends Tyreek purely on "optics" (and again, that has NOT happened), then there will be a huge legal battle for sure.

Yeah, I think 'Zeke's suspension was "put on hold" three times before it was all said and done.

[Adamixoye 604]

1 hour ago, Fmbl2187 said:

 Right.  The league is not a criminal courtroom.  Circumstantial vs. hard evidence does not bind them.  If it "looks" bad to the league, they can suspend, just like any private business can fire. If Hill "looks bad" to the league on this one, he will be suspended.  How long depends on how bad it "looks." Simple as that.

Side note, this is a misunderstanding of what "circumstantial" evidence is.  People get convicted of crimes based on "circumstantial" evidence all of the time, and the legal system allows for that.  But circumstantial evidence can be strong - a DNA match, motive, opportunity, etc.

What we have with Tyreek is less than that.  There is pretty good circumstantial evidence that something negative happened to the child, enough for the authorities to be concerned.  There is pretty much zero evidence, circumstantial or otherwise - at least that is publicly available - that indicates the who, what, and how.  We could add Tyreek's history with DV as a piece of circumstantial evidence, but even that doesn't move the needle when when the other facts are unknown.  For example, what are the child's injuries, if any?  I don't think the allegations of a broken arm are anything more than rumor at this point.

[Mloe68 1,521]

3 hours ago, ATLchief said:

What about Ezekiel Elliott?  Was the evidence in that case anything other than circumstantial?

Not arguing.  Serious question(s).

Great question and your right circumstantial could apply here as well. The difference is you had an accuser who was adamant two separate incidents of battery happened. It became a he said, she said thing and police just didn’t think they had enough on him to prosecute. But the NFL after a year long investigation decided to believe her story. 

“The investigators looked at photographs, police records, and text messages. Two medical experts consulted by the league determined that a series of photographs of the woman’s injuries “appear recent and consistent” to her statements.”

So you have an accuser, we know exactly what she’s claiming and then as far as the NFL is concerned enough evidence to back up her claim.  Still I’d agree this is a classic Goodell overstep of powers only this one was upheld by the courts. And part of that was because much like Kareem Hunt several other separate incidents arose with they called a “pattern.” 

In Tyreeks case as far as I know, all the league has are those two basic police reports which offer next to nothing other than an injured kid and a few people of interest. We have no idea when this injury occurred or who specifically is to blame or who even there at the time considering Tyreek wasn’t even listed on the second report.. There’s just nothing to go on minus the kids testimony which won’t ever happen any more than Family Court records being released minus some TMZ like payments to the right person. 

Still who knows if Goodell would take the next step in the abuse of his power and levy the 6 game personal conduct penalty anyway. I’d assume a lawsuit filed by the NFLPA if he did. 

Finally my opinions are based on everything reported to date. If further info comes to light the situation could obviously change. 

In the end if players don’t do dump sh*t or affiliate themselves with people that do, they can avoid this mess. I don’t need or expect a roster full of choir boys and I’ve got no qualms about giving people second chances especially when your talking about guys like Hill and Clark who made horrible judgements when they were essentially kids in college.  But if you cant keep your name out off the police blotter while being paid millions to play a kids game, you kind of get what you deserve.  Fair or not. A generalization for sure that doesn’t apply to every situation but more a plea for these guys to respect their talent and lot in life. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

1 hour ago, Adamixoye said:

Side note, this is a misunderstanding of what "circumstantial" evidence is.  People get convicted of crimes based on "circumstantial" evidence all of the time, and the legal system allows for that.  But circumstantial evidence can be strong - a DNA match, motive, opportunity, etc.

What we have with Tyreek is less than that.  There is pretty good circumstantial evidence that something negative happened to the child, enough for the authorities to be concerned.  There is pretty much zero evidence, circumstantial or otherwise - at least that is publicly available - that indicates the who, what, and how.  We could add Tyreek's history with DV as a piece of circumstantial evidence, but even that doesn't move the needle when when the other facts are unknown.  For example, what are the child's injuries, if any?  I don't think the allegations of a broken arm are anything more than rumor at this point.

Got it. Thanks.

[xen 1,010,220]

Looks like we may find out something today

[Adamixoye 604]

3 minutes ago, xen said:

Looks like we may find out something today

Seems like this is either good news or bad news instead of maintaining the unknown status quo.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Armchair lawyer'ing (so means literally nothing as I have no law degree) here, but I believe an active case regarding CPS has to remain open for at least 30 days no matter what.  It's been about 5 weeks or so weeks since the latest report was filed, so I think the case is done and there probably won't be any charges.  With that said, Tyreek and his fiancee probably have conditions they will need to meet to keep the case from being reopened.  Tyreek is probably facing a suspension from the NFL regardless.

[Adamixoye 604]

14 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

Tyreek is probably facing a suspension from the NFL regardless.

I still don't see how anyone can say this until more is known.  But we may very well have a better idea after this press conference.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

7 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

I still don't see how anyone can say this until more is known.  But we may very well have a better idea after this press conference.

He doesn't need to be charged at all to face a suspension.