Some rumors out there Chiefs trying to trade you know who

[Mloe68 1,521]

1 hour ago, reesebobby said:

When Tyrod Taylor or Colin Kaepernick throw for 5000 yards and 50 touchdowns then you may compare the two with Mahomes.  Mahomes had the same amount of carries as Alex Smith did the year prior.  He is much closer to Favre or Rodgers than the two you mentioned.  I think you are bordering on racism with your analysis that he's an athletic guy without smarts.  He's actually very smart.  His presnap reads are superior to Smith, he recognizes pressure better than Smith, and makes better decisions under pressure than Smith.  He gets sacked less on more attempts.  There is literally nothing that Smith does that is better than Mahomes.  Not a single thing.  
 

I would disagree and say Alex Smith is a better pure runner than Mahomes but the rest of your take is spot on without question. Mahomes is FAR superior in using his athleticism to extend plays in the passing game which is an absolute must in the modern NFL. And his pocket presence and feel for pressure is FAR more advanced at 23 than Alex is 13 years into his career. As such why Mahomes was so superior in the pocket as well. Alex used to run himself into sacks by feeling phantom pressure, while Patrick uses subtle moves to avoid real pressure which is why our sacks dropped from 37 to 26 despite 40 more attempts and despite missing both starting guards most of the season.

This doesn't even broach the massive arm strength advantage. As for intelligence, Mahomes was the Big 12 scholar athlete of the year and won over Andy Reid by just owning the whiteboard portion of his interviews. As his Dad says about his photographic memory, "he will make mistakes, but never make them twice."  In short this is again a reminder we waited decades for a true QB1 (LOL). And what we got was perhaps the biggest draft steal of the last decade. A once in a generation QB with the tenth pick. 

[sith13 1,746]

20 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

I agree 100%. I think they have put together a hell of a coaching staff and that HAS to be factored into this. I also think they've flat gotten sick of not being able to stop the run and have prioritized that, knowing they will have to sacrifice some pass rush.

After watching some film last night, I think that Damien Wilson may be a nice under the radar signing. Having House working with him, Rags, and Hitch, and DOD is going to be huge.

Im kind of expecting them to use their first and one of their seconds this year, and possible even one of their seconds next year to move up in round 1 and go get the explosive pass rusher they lack. And we pretty much know they are gonna go corner in round 2 even if they only end up with 1 pick in the round. Its a solid class and round 2 could be a sweet spot to find a cost controlled starter to groom under Breeland. 

I like the plan of attack, and I think a lot of fans are having trouble seeing the fact Veach is playing the long game here.  Getting a starting pass rusher and corner on rookie contracts has got to be the goal in this draft and is paramount to getting us back into good cap shape long term.  To finally fix Dorseys cap mess.

Finally I think people are sleeping on Watts. The kid was damn good in college and is a hell of a good athlete. I think he is factoring into their plans more than people realize, and may be our starter at FS.

I think the era of edge rusher might be over in KC. We just let two of them leave for nothing in 2019. I'm expecting a jack of all trades type who'll be stout against the run and get to the QB when needed but I doubt it'll be a double-digit sacks guy. I'm guessing we'll see Spags rushing from all over the place. We could add a specialist in mid to late rounds but I don't think it's their priority.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

9 minutes ago, sith13 said:

I think the era of edge rusher might be over in KC. We just let two of them leave for nothing in 2019. I'm expecting a jack of all trades type who'll be stout against the run and get to the QB when needed but I doubt it'll be a double-digit sacks guy. I'm guessing we'll see Spags rushing from all over the place. We could add a specialist in mid to late rounds but I don't think it's their priority.

We will see. Id be just as happy if they stayed at 29 and used every pick they have.

[Mloe68 1,521]

12 minutes ago, sith13 said:

I think the era of edge rusher might be over in KC. We just let two of them leave for nothing in 2019. I'm expecting a jack of all trades type who'll be stout against the run and get to the QB when needed but I doubt it'll be a double-digit sacks guy. I'm guessing we'll see Spags rushing from all over the place. We could add a specialist in mid to late rounds but I don't think it's their priority.

Personally I totally disagree with this and believe like House a major focus in the draft will be filling that weakside defensive end spot.  I think circumstances and contract size had more to do with moving out both pass rushers than any philosophical statement about pass rushers themselves. You have to have guys who can close out games for you. But you are right that an inability to stop the run will make said pass rusher much less valuable. Lets fix our run defense and develop another good pass rusher at a MUCH cheaper price that the 35 million combined we were going to have to pay for Houston and Ford. 

[kkuenn 3,613]

15 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

We will see. Id be just as happy if they stayed at 29 and used every pick they have.

Or trade back for a high 2nd rounder if our guy is still there and can be had in the 2nd. If our guy is gone then trade back and get what we can at that position.

[Calichief 3,024]

1 hour ago, kkuenn said:

He has yet to really learn the check down pass. I would say he will get much better taking what the defense is giving him for 5 yard completions to set up 2nd or 3rd and short

Absolutely. No one checks down like Alex. Mahomes will never be able to match that kind of prowess. 

[PhataLerror 370]

2 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

And you reached this conclusion based on the fact that in our first year without him as our starter we got closer to the Superbowl than we ever did with him. Very sound logic.

(Right before the salary cap situation collapsed.)

Let's be honest: The Chiefs don't hit the speed bump at week 6 of 2017 if Conley doesn't blow out his Achilles. If that's not satisfying enough for you seeing as the Chiefs just let Conley walk (as they couldn't afford him anyway), consider this:

Demarcus Robinson, 2017: 585 offensive snaps, 39 targets (targeted on only 6.7% of snaps, while typically being second-best wideout on field)

Demarcus Robinson, 2018: 419 offensive snaps, 33 targets (targeted on only 7.9% of snaps, while typically being fourth-best wideout on field; he was on pace for 235 snaps before Sammy Watkins would miss most of the final seven games of the season)

Robinson's utilization during the latest post-season spoke volumes about what Reid thought of him: 4 snaps and a lone target against the Colts, followed by 8 snaps and a singular target against the Patriots. Contrast that with 2017, where he was forced onto the field for 45 snaps against the Titans, and earned 4 targets from Smith.

I'm accused of bias, but it's very clear that supporting cast was a factor last year. Your response suggests that you're evaluating Mahomes' play in a vacuum.

[PhataLerror 370]

3 hours ago, reesebobby said:

Farther away than an overtime loss in the AFC Championship Game?

Could be the closest Mahomes ever gets. Just ask converted pitcher Colin Kaepernick about how he fared after his first half-season as a starter.

[PhataLerror 370]

3 hours ago, reesebobby said:

When Tyrod Taylor or Colin Kaepernick throw for 5000 yards and 50 touchdowns then you may compare the two with Mahomes.  Mahomes had the same amount of carries as Alex Smith did the year prior.  He is much closer to Favre or Rodgers than the two you mentioned.  I think you are bordering on racism with your analysis that he's an athletic guy without smarts.  He's actually very smart.  His presnap reads are superior to Smith, he recognizes pressure better than Smith, and makes better decisions under pressure than Smith.  He gets sacked less on more attempts.  There is literally nothing that Smith does that is better than Mahomes.  Not a single thing.  
 

Wow, race card? Really? There are plenty of stupid white people. I have no problem saying that. It's unfortunate that you discredit your argument by resorting to that.

[kkuenn 3,613]

9 minutes ago, PhataLerror said:

Could be the closest Mahomes ever gets. Just ask converted pitcher Colin Kaepernick about how he fared after his first half-season as a starter.

What is funny here is you comparing him to Kaep and thinking this is how far he will get. His skill set is far beyond Kaep and if you cant see that then it shows your argument here and how it is wrong. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

lmbo that some weirdo says derogatory stuff, in result is said stuff that's derogatory pointed at him in result and takes high offense

[kkuenn 3,613]

13 minutes ago, PhataLerror said:

(Right before the salary cap situation collapsed.)

Let's be honest: The Chiefs don't hit the speed bump at week 6 of 2017 if Conley doesn't blow out his Achilles. If that's not satisfying enough for you seeing as the Chiefs just let Conley walk (as they couldn't afford him anyway), consider this:

Demarcus Robinson, 2017: 585 offensive snaps, 39 targets (targeted on only 6.7% of snaps, while typically being second-best wideout on field)

Demarcus Robinson, 2018: 419 offensive snaps, 33 targets (targeted on only 7.9% of snaps, while typically being fourth-best wideout on field; he was on pace for 235 snaps before Sammy Watkins would miss most of the final seven games of the season)

Robinson's utilization during the latest post-season spoke volumes about what Reid thought of him: 4 snaps and a lone target against the Colts, followed by 8 snaps and a singular target against the Patriots. Contrast that with 2017, where he was forced onto the field for 45 snaps against the Titans, and earned 4 targets from Smith.

I'm accused of bias, but it's very clear that supporting cast was a factor last year. Your response suggests that you're evaluating Mahomes' play in a vacuum.

What is funny is last year and how the offense stalled and we lost many games including 6 of 7 in a stretch agains far inferior teams. Then we lost to the Titans where Smith could not engineer a fg in the 2nd half even.  Mahomes carried this team and that is a good thing to see from such a young guy. He carried it to wins even when the defense was crap. If we had Smith last year we would be lucky to go 10-6 but one thing for sure we would not have won the division or had home field advantage.

[PhataLerror 370]

17 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

What is funny here is you comparing him to Kaep and thinking this is how far he will get. His skill set is far beyond Kaep and if you cant see that then it shows your argument here and how it is wrong. 

You misinterpret the purpose of my response. I'd take Mahomes over Kaepernick any day. The problem is that Mahomes is still dependent on his team. And Mahomes won't have the supporting cast in 2019 that he had in 2018. He not only has to improve to keep pace with opposing Defensive Coordinators, but also he has to learn how to work with less at wideout. A lot of very good quarterbacks played in one Super Bowl, and didn't win it (think Dan Marino, who also benefited from a strong supporting cast in 1984), and a lot of quarterbacks better than Mahomes never played in a Super Bowl at all. Supporting cast matters.

[reesebobby 5,663]

3 minutes ago, PhataLerror said:

You misinterpret the purpose of my response. I'd take Mahomes over Kaepernick any day. The problem is that Mahomes is still dependent on his team. And Mahomes won't have the supporting cast in 2019 that he had in 2018. He not only has to improve to keep pace with opposing Defensive Coordinators, but also he has to learn how to work with less at wideout. A lot of very good quarterbacks played in one Super Bowl, and didn't win it (think Dan Marino, who also benefited from a strong supporting cast in 1984), and a lot of quarterbacks better than Mahomes never played in a Super Bowl at all. Supporting cast matters.

In his first start ever.  On the road.  In the coldest game ever at mile high.  And with all of the starters benched.  Mahomes threw to Albert Wilson for 147 yards and Demetrius Harris for 73.  He put up 27 points and won the game.  This with Anthony Sherman at tailback. 

[PhataLerror 370]

16 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

lmbo that some weirdo says derogatory stuff, in result is said stuff that's derogatory pointed at him in result and takes high offense

Racist.

Pretty ridiculous, no? Race never entered into any of this conversation, but a user implied that the basis for my opinion was racism. It is insulting, and the claim betrays a woeful lack of legitimate response to the arguments I've made.

My character is untainted when someone calls me an idiot. My track record on predictions stands on its own merit. And I'm not going to lose sleep because some guy who's never met me in real life used his computer to call me a racist. But there's a huge difference between name-calling (which is uncivil and stupid) and insinuating that someone has a character flaw of the sort behind genocides and repressive government. It shouldn't be tolerated on the most open of forums. Period.

Clearly there are people here that are entertained by the thought that someone could actually reason that Hill isn't a big deal. Let's leave it at that, and not engage in personal attacks.

[PhataLerror 370]

4 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

In his first start ever.  On the road.  In the coldest game ever at mile high.  And with all of the starters benched.  Mahomes threw to Albert Wilson for 147 yards and Demetrius Harris for 73.  He put up 27 points and won the game.  This with Anthony Sherman at tailback. 

Against a team that was already evaluating players for the 2018 season, and benched a number of starters to give dozens of snaps to undrafted rookie free agents in a meaningless game.

[kkuenn 3,613]

3 minutes ago, PhataLerror said:

Against a team that was already evaluating players for the 2018 season, and benched a number of starters to give dozens of snaps to undrafted rookie free agents in a meaningless game.

They actually started my if their guys that game too. May have not finished but a lot played a half or more. 

[Calichief 3,024]

Pat has reached his ceiling obviously 

[kkuenn 3,613]

27 minutes ago, PhataLerror said:

You misinterpret the purpose of my response. I'd take Mahomes over Kaepernick any day. The problem is that Mahomes is still dependent on his team. And Mahomes won't have the supporting cast in 2019 that he had in 2018. He not only has to improve to keep pace with opposing Defensive Coordinators, but also he has to learn how to work with less at wideout. A lot of very good quarterbacks played in one Super Bowl, and didn't win it (think Dan Marino, who also benefited from a strong supporting cast in 1984), and a lot of quarterbacks better than Mahomes never played in a Super Bowl at all. Supporting cast matters.

What supporting cast did he have that Smith did not have? Smith had a healthy run game in Hunt all year. He had Hill, Kelce etc. We had Watkins for Mahomes but also lost starting guards, the center and Watkins for half the year oh and dont forget Hunt too being kicked off the team. All this and he still put up better numbers,  sacked less and showed how he made those better around him. See with Smith all had to be perfect around him to do well. With Mahomes it can fall apart to injuries and he still made it happen. All this in his 1st year as a starter. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

13 minutes ago, PhataLerror said:

Racist.

Pretty ridiculous, no? Race never entered into any of this conversation, but a user implied that the basis for my opinion was racism. It is insulting, and the claim betrays a woeful lack of legitimate response to the arguments I've made.

My character is untainted when someone calls me an idiot. My track record on predictions stands on its own merit. And I'm not going to lose sleep because some guy who's never met me in real life used his computer to call me a racist. But there's a huge difference between name-calling (which is uncivil and stupid) and insinuating that someone has a character flaw of the sort behind genocides and repressive government. It shouldn't be tolerated on the most open of forums. Period.

Clearly there are people here that are entertained by the thought that someone could actually reason that Hill isn't a big deal. Let's leave it at that, and not engage in personal attacks.

Is it?  Why not just call guys like Pat Mahomes and Kaepernick QB's instead of clever little nicknames you seem desperate to attach.  I'm not saying any definites but it's hard to not read a good handful of your posts and argue with someone that says there isn't some sort of bias being projected in your words.

Maybe tone down the stupid nicknames and rhetoric just a little bit and talk simply about football.

It's not really a simply your post thing, it's a sport wide issue when it comes to not white QB's.  

[PhataLerror 370]

28 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

What is funny is last year and how the offense stalled and we lost many games including 6 of 7 in a stretch agains far inferior teams. Then we lost to the Titans where Smith could not engineer a fg in the 2nd half even.  Mahomes carried this team and that is a good thing to see from such a young guy. He carried it to wins even when the defense was crap. If we had Smith last year we would be lucky to go 10-6 but one thing for sure we would not have won the division or had home field advantage.

Say all you want about how the Chiefs managed Harrison Butker's (missed) second-half field goal attempt. The fact is that the Chiefs' defense had no backup plan for the loss of Chris Jones, and the Titans would have easily scored a fourth second-half touchdown rather than run out the clock.

[PhataLerror 370]

15 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

They actually started my if their guys that game too. May have not finished but a lot played a half or more. 

Double-check the snap counts.

[sith13 1,746]

2 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

Personally I totally disagree with this and believe like House a major focus in the draft will be filling that weakside defensive end spot.  I think circumstances and contract size had more to do with moving out both pass rushers than any philosophical statement about pass rushers themselves. You have to have guys who can close out games for you. But you are right that an inability to stop the run will make said pass rusher much less valuable. Lets fix our run defense and develop another good pass rusher at a MUCH cheaper price that the 35 million combined we were going to have to pay for Houston and Ford. 

I think DE will be a priority, in fact I'm expecting one in 1st but I doubt it'll be the flashy new "edge rusher" type but rather a more classical DE who can do it all similar to Michael Bennett. 

[PhataLerror 370]

8 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

Is it?  Why not just call guys like Pat Mahomes and Kaepernick QB's instead of clever little nicknames you seem desperate to attach.  I'm not saying any definites but it's hard to not read a good handful of your posts and argue with someone that says there isn't some sort of bias being projected in your words.

Maybe tone down the stupid nicknames and rhetoric just a little bit and talk simply about football.

It's not really a simply your post thing, it's a sport wide issue when it comes to not white QB's.  

My "bias" is that I have little regard for "quarterbacks" that have limited effectiveness from the pocket. I never had a lot of respect for Steve Young, who is as white as they come. The whole race thing with "not-white quarterbacks" is a red herring that deliberately skirts comprehensive discussion of the long-term disadvantages of playing outside the pocket.

[dksww 484]

45 minutes ago, PhataLerror said:

You misinterpret the purpose of my response. I'd take Mahomes over Kaepernick any day. The problem is that Mahomes is still dependent on his team. And Mahomes won't have the supporting cast in 2019 that he had in 2018. He not only has to improve to keep pace with opposing Defensive Coordinators, but also he has to learn how to work with less at wideout. A lot of very good quarterbacks played in one Super Bowl, and didn't win it (think Dan Marino, who also benefited from a strong supporting cast in 1984), and a lot of quarterbacks better than Mahomes never played in a Super Bowl at all. Supporting cast matters.

Not true at all.