Possible trade partner?

[SEMO 6,811]

8 hours ago, jetlord said:

This is a strange draft.  We could probably agree on at least 15 of the top 20 to be taken, but after that it's all over the place.  I'm amazed at the number of mocks that have very good players slipping to #29 while others have the same player in the top 15.  Players slotted at the end of the first round in some mocks are late seconds in others.  It's always a little that way, but this year seem less predictable than any in the recent past.

Seems pretty par for the course to me.  Every team builds their own board.  They grade and value players differently.  Players always go higher of lower than projections.  And, the media pundits don't have the inside info.  Neither do I, but...

Here is what I see, just going by team needs:

Top pass rushers gone in the first 15 picks (easy one, I know).

A run on corners starting around 19.  Then another around 33.

Good chance no safeties taken in round 1.

 

 

 

[kkuenn 3,597]

46 minutes ago, SEMO said:

Seems pretty par for the course to me.  Every team builds their own board.  They grade and value players differently.  Players always go higher of lower than projections.  And, the media pundits don't have the inside info.  Neither do I, but...

Here is what I see, just going by team needs:

Top pass rushers gone in the first 15 picks (easy one, I know).

A run on corners starting around 19.  Then another around 33.

Good chance no safeties taken in round 1.

 

 

 

I hope it works out this way. Would be ecstatic to see Hockensen or Fant there at 29 for TE. I know we need defense too but we still have 2nd round picks plus our 3rd and cap space for anyone cut later this year with Berry's number hitting 2 June.

[jetlord 10,207]

1 hour ago, kkuenn said:

I hope it works out this way. Would be ecstatic to see Hockensen or Fant there at 29 for TE. I know we need defense too but we still have 2nd round picks plus our 3rd and cap space for anyone cut later this year with Berry's number hitting 2 June.

I think a top defender will help the Chiefs more than a second top TE.  They need a second option and back up for Kelce, but the second TE would have to split the targets with him thus cutting the value of both. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

4 minutes ago, jetlord said:

I think a top defender will help the Chiefs more than a second top TE.  They need a second option and back up for Kelce, but the second TE would have to split the targets with him thus cutting the value of both. 

yes but to get Kelces replacement now at age 21 in Fant or Hockensen (both are young) and be able to lock him in would be huge. Can give him a few years until 24 and Kelce being 29 would finish out around 33 or so. Nice transition in my opinion.

[dksww 484]

1 minute ago, kkuenn said:

yes but to get Kelces replacement now at age 21 in Fant or Hockensen (both are young) and be able to lock him in would be huge. Can give him a few years until 24 and Kelce being 29 would finish out around 33 or so. Nice transition in my opinion.

Plus we'd be stealing him from the Patriots who you know just can't wait to get a TE with the loss of Gronk.

I could live with TE at 29. 

We can't ignore the offense and have 2 legit TE's for Mahomes would be very scary for opposing defenses.

[dksww 484]

9 minutes ago, jetlord said:

I think a top defender will help the Chiefs more than a second top TE.  They need a second option and back up for Kelce, but the second TE would have to split the targets with him thus cutting the value of both. 

Individual stats for each player may suffer, but the sum of the yardage and touchdowns would be the same or even increase because it still adds another threat on offense.

[kkuenn 3,597]

4 minutes ago, dksww said:

Plus we'd be stealing him from the Patriots who you know just can't wait to get a TE with the loss of Gronk.

I could live with TE at 29. 

We can't ignore the offense and have 2 legit TE's for Mahomes would be very scary for opposing defenses.

It would make us unstoppable imo. 2 number 1 type TEs, 2 number 1 type WRs and our RBs. Double up on Hill. Still have to deal with 2 TEs and hopefully a healthy Watkins this year. 4 DLs on the line, even go 3 on some. That leaves 5 or 6 players to then defend 2 TES, 1 WR maybe 2 if or our 3rd WRs option if no FB or if one TE etc, 1 RB and our FB who has shown to be able to catch nicely to. Can you imagine LBs on a WR or TE most of the time along with RB?

[oldtimer 8,684]

6 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

It would make us unstoppable imo. 2 number 1 type TEs, 2 number 1 type WRs and our RBs. Double up on Hill. Still have to deal with 2 TEs and hopefully a healthy Watkins this year. 4 DLs on the line, even go 3 on some. That leaves 5 or 6 players to then defend 2 TES, 1 WR maybe 2 if or our 3rd WRs option if no FB or if one TE etc, 1 RB and our FB who has shown to be able to catch nicely to. Can you imagine LBs on a WR or TE most of the time along with RB?

I think  & this is JMO we need to worry about stopping

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Kelce is in his prime right now.  Can't think of a single good reason to spend the #1 pick on a Tight End.

[oldtimer 8,684]

4 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

Kelce is in his prime right now.  Can't think of a single good reason to spend the #1 pick on a Tight End.

and  3 more years at a reasonable cost  if his health stays good and if not he's easily cut-able with huge savings

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

1 hour ago, liquidfriend said:

Kelce is in his prime right now.  Can't think of a single good reason to spend the #1 pick on a Tight End.

This would probably be the point where I might actually start questioning Veachs aptitude. If they dont use that top pick on a defense that needs playmakers this badly, I'll probably lose my shit. Kyle is a die hard Hawkeyes fan so he is jaded. Im not.

This team was a better defense away from literally being undefeated last year. Literally. Not a god damn tight end away.

[jetlord 10,207]

4 hours ago, dksww said:

Individual stats for each player may suffer, but the sum of the yardage and touchdowns would be the same or even increase because it still adds another threat on offense.

I'm not claiming the offense wouldn't be better, just that the decrease of points given up by adding a top defender would be greater than the increase in points by adding a fifth option for Mahomes passing.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

2 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

This would probably be the point where I might actually start questioning Veachs aptitude. If they dont use that top pick on a defense that needs playmakers this badly, I'll probably lose my shit. Kyle is a die hard Hawkeyes fan so he is jaded. Im not.

This team was a better defense away from literally being undefeated last year. Literally. Not a god damn tight end away.

I would be okay with taking Offense if it's the best option, because deep down the priority is Pat Mahomes.  But, no way am I spending a #1 pick on someone that's guaranteed to be a back up for years.  It would be idiotic.

[kkuenn 3,597]

3 hours ago, liquidfriend said:

I would be okay with taking Offense if it's the best option, because deep down the priority is Pat Mahomes.  But, no way am I spending a #1 pick on someone that's guaranteed to be a back up for years.  It would be idiotic.

While true I am a die hard Hawk fan, Reid does love having 2 TE sets. He would use them a lot more if he had a good to great 2nd TE and Harris was not it.. If one of them are there, then you will have to think about them being BPA. If it was one of them over say the 4th CB to be taken off the board, do you reach for said CB just because we need defense? Hell I wanted Kittle, Desmond King etc before too and they lasted to the 5th rounds. I would take them if there because it is BPA. If there is a high guy that falls and is right up there in talent and on defense, then go defense as it is more of a need. I do not think though drafting a TE would mean he would be a back up, rather it would open up more for Reid to do with offensive play calls etc. Nor do I think going for a top TE over a top ILB, S, CB or whatever would be right to do too. If the BPA was a TE from Alabama I would be fine with it, it though happens to be both from Iowa this year and Iowa has been putting some pretty damn good ones in the pros plus run a 2 TE set a lot too.

 

Reid used 3 TE sets before to success.

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/5/31/8665529/kansas-city-chiefs-offense-dangerous-tight-ends

 

There is also this too which I think we have been missing with a very solid 2nd TE.

 

As well as using spread alignments and running from shotgun sets, Reid will observe another modern fancy to attack defenses. He will utilize the two-tight-end set to great effect in Kansas City.

That will be helped by one of Reid and general manager John Dorsey's best free-agency signings, Anthony Fasano. The ex-Miami Dolphin will form a dangerous tandem with youngster Tony Moeaki.

Two-tight-end sets have become one of the best ways to attack modern multiple defenses. The New England Patriots and San Francisco 49ers have committed to it and others now follow suit.

Reid knows how to use the formation to his advantage, as he's one of the best two-tight-end play-caller's in the league.

One play from Week 2 against the Baltimore Ravens shows how Reid can use two tight ends to dissect a defense.

The play begins with both tight ends, Brent Celek and Clay Harbor, stacked together.

Reid has placed his two wide receivers on the other side and will use them to split the Ravens' coverage. Celek will work to the inside and attempt to get behind Baltimore's zone scheme.

To split the zone and free Celek, the inside wide receiver breaks across the middle. The outside flanker runs a deep post on the outside.

The receiver going across the middle draws the coverage of the cornerback on the tight end side. The deep route occupies the other corner and the strong safety.

The free safety is kept deep by the receivers routes. That allows Celek to head for the open area in the zone, just behind the linebackers.

While Celek got open for a simple 23-yard gain, Harbor stayed in to block one of the outside linebackers in Baltimore's 3-4 defense.

In Fasano and Moeaki, Reid has two tight ends who can block and thrive over the middle. He'll have the flexibility to design many passing plays like this.

Reid will construct a more flexible and athletic offense than the Chiefs have fielded in recent seasons. That is already leading to some tough choices up front.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1585190-breaking-down-andy-reids-blueprint-for-attacking-todays-ever-changing-nfl

[liquidfriend 1,151]

The Chiefs are going to spread things wide and used the #2 TE to block a lot.  It's just not a good use of a first round pick when you've already got the unarguable best TE in the NFL.

[kkuenn 3,597]

21

CHIEFS

Trade with Seahawks Brian Burns, EDGE, Florida State  The Chiefs have a few extra picks and a wide open Super Bowl window. After the departures of Dee Ford and Justin Houston, they need more talent on the edge. With Brian Burns, they'd get a pass rusher with All-Pro talent.   CHIEFS Juan Thornhill, S, Virginia  The Chiefs grabbed Tyrann Mathieu in free agency, but Thornhill's tremendous range would allow the former LSU star to roam freely at the intermediate levels of the field.   CHIEFS Parris Campbell, WR, Ohio State  Not many coaches love the shallow cross more than Andy Reid, and Campbell ran a ton of those at Ohio State in 2018. He has elite speed and can flip on the jets after the catch to create chunk plays. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/two-round-2019-nfl-mock-draft-chiefs-trade-up-as-part-of-big-haul-packers-land-top-rb-in-round-2/

[kkuenn 3,597]

Thoughts on this mock with a more plausible trade up scenario? It does not tell us what we give up but I am guessing a pick next year to move up 8 spots

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

28 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

Thoughts on this mock with a more plausible trade up scenario? It does not tell us what we give up but I am guessing a pick next year to move up 8 spots

Would be an absolute home run. Granted we would still have a huge question mark at CB, but it would be hard to argue with that kind of talent in our first 3 picks. Campbell is talented enough that he may allow us to let Watkins walk and pursue CB next offseason with designs on the top names hitting the market.

[kkuenn 3,597]

1 hour ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Would be an absolute home run. Granted we would still have a huge question mark at CB, but it would be hard to argue with that kind of talent in our first 3 picks. Campbell is talented enough that he may allow us to let Watkins walk and pursue CB next offseason with designs on the top names hitting the market.

Better yet get Peterson for a 2nd next year and a 5th....grand slam

[jetlord 10,207]

2 hours ago, kkuenn said:

Thoughts on this mock with a more plausible trade up scenario? It does not tell us what we give up but I am guessing a pick next year to move up 8 spots

If the Chiefs don't address CB in a major way, all the offense in the world won't help.  

[xen 1,010,219]

2 hours ago, kkuenn said:

Thoughts on this mock with a more plausible trade up scenario? It does not tell us what we give up but I am guessing a pick next year to move up 8 spots

He has us giving up a 3rd this year.

[kkuenn 3,597]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/story/_/id/26472024/ranking-teams-most-likely-make-trades-2019-nfl-draft

[Lamardirts 2,114]

We seem to have a knack of finding these talented offensive gems in the 3-5 rounds.   Lately its been our bread and butter so why deviate from that now.   I agree those top offensive players are really good but our team, coach and qb have the ability to taken a lesson known commodity and getting something spectacular out of him.   Our defense cannot make that same claim.  

[jetlord 10,207]

10 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

 t our team, coach and qb have the ability to taken a lesson known commodity and getting something spectacular out of him.   Our defense cannot make that same claim.  

Maybe better coaching and scheme can change that, but the team needs an infusion of talent on defense from the draft and except for a backup TE, they can get by without top picks on offense. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Trade up possibilities would be Seahawks (only have 4 picks!) and Vikings (they need picks to compensate for dire cap situation).

Trade down wise, the Browns are looking to move up.  I also wouldn't rule out the R*dskins if they don't trade for a Rosen and pass pick 1 and the Carolina Panthers.  Not getting a lot of traction in the media, but it should be noted that there are some major concerns about Cam Netwon's long term shoulder health.