Clark to KC

[kkuenn 3,597]

1 hour ago, Fmbl2187 said:

From a pure performance and draft position standpoint, the trade was heavily in KC's favor.  The real cost is hidden, which is the fact that 90% of domestic abusers repeat, regardless of counseling.  So, I think this deal is bad.  It won't feel bad when we are playing.  But it will feel very bad when he is suspended during the playoffs.  HIs sudden absence will be worse than Dee Ford encroaching in the AFC championship game.  Now we were are the John Madden era Raiders.  Great on the field but bad people. It will cost us big time at some point and make it more costly to try to re-sign Mahomes.  I give this an F, though it will look like an A most of the time.  Did you see his reaction about being traded to the Chiefs?  It is because he "wanted to be appreciated."  Does that sound like a team player or a selfish player all about himself? Where is this management when it comes to medical reality?  I think anyone can answer that.  I'm not happy about this, especially considering that Hill could be cut or suspended at anytime for the same thing...a self destructive impulse-control problem with a 90% repeat rate.

Can you give me recent examples of a Chiefs player that was charged more than once in domestic violence? Not assaults but DV? Hunt was last year and cut right away so it is not like he got a 2nd chance. Hill has not been even charged. Only guy I can think of that was an assaulter and true ass that got many of chances is Larry Johnson. You keep throwing up 90% well dont you think we would see it then more often on this team if so?

[FANATIC 852]

1 minute ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Here is one reference for "arrest rate." which is lower than actual repeat rate, obviously.  I will try to find the other stat for actual repeat for you.

https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/will-it-happen-again

Blah Blah Blah......You two need to get a room. 😂 We need a new thread on the trade. This has become a  Legal Thread.

[Thegoatee 1,780]

My overall NFL knowledge must be getting worse, because I honestly have no idea who he is or what to expect. Lot of money. 

[SEMO 6,811]

5 minutes ago, FANATIC said:

Blah Blah Blah......You two need to get a room. 😂 We need a new thread on the trade. This has become a  Legal Thread.

I agree.  There is already a thread in the LR.  Further legalities should be discussed there.

 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

8 minutes ago, FANATIC said:

Blah Blah Blah......You two need to get a room. 😂 We need a new thread on the trade. This has become a  Legal Thread.

You're right.  But there is more sarcasm and politics in the Locker Room than this subject can stand.  We just traded for another domestic abuser.  That makes it relevant here, because we drafted the guy to play football and have been debating the pros and cons of that trade and the risks of it.

[reesebobby 5,661]

16 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Here is one reference for "arrest rate." which is lower than actual repeat rate, obviously.  I will try to find the other stat for actual repeat for you.

https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/will-it-happen-again

So 31 percent.  

[reesebobby 5,661]

6 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

You're right.  But there is more sarcasm and politics in the Locker Room than this subject can stand.  We just traded for another domestic abuser.  That makes it relevant here, because we drafted the guy to play football and have been debating the pros and cons of that trade and the risks of it.

His history is relevant.  But you can’t just pull percentages out of your ass. This isn’t the state of the union. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

9 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

So 31 percent.  

No.  That is ARREST rate within a short time period.  It goes up to 61% arrest rate over a longer period.  https://domestic-violence-law.com/can-abusers-be-rehabilitated/

The actual repeat rate is based on the word of the abused when reporting it, and that almost always involves bruising. Often it comes with presentation to an emergency room, and the patient may beg the staff not to even inform the police due to fear of reprisal. It  also may not be enough for an arrest.  I simply recall the 90% figure for repeated abuse. It may have come from an estimate. I  cannot find that figure right now, but it is probably an old figure.  At least we know that one study showed 61% re-arrest over a longer period.  The whole point is that it is high. Let's not argue any more.  The point is that the Chiefs took a very significant risk, just like they did in the case of Hill, and we still do not yet know what is going to happen there.  But I can't wait to see the guy play.  If Hill is OK and Clark is playing on D along with a better scheme and more success against the run, our team is going to be close to unbeatable. Clark is also said to be a pretty damn good run stopper when play comes his way.

[SEMO 6,811]

Just debate in the LR so I don’t have to move this thread over there.  Thanks.

[DefensiveMan 758]

Anyone want to line up our starters on defense pre draft?

This has been a complete overhaul. 

Okafor, Nnadi, Jones, Clark

Attachu, Hitchens, Wilson?

Breeland, Fuller, Honey Badger, Watts? 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

12 minutes ago, DefensiveMan said:

Anyone want to line up our starters on defense pre draft?

This has been a complete overhaul. 

Okafor, Nnadi, Jones, Clark

Attachu, Hitchens, Wilson?

Breeland, Fuller, Honey Badger, Watts? 

Wow.  Can't say Veach hasn't changed things around in response to being 31st. We should get at least two more 3-and-outs per game.  Maybe more.

 

[DieHard 2,061]

4 hours ago, Balto said:

That's what I came up with...

#29=640

2020 2nd=190 for est mid round pick

3rd round move up= Gain 38pts

Total = 792...Or a #21/#22 pick value

This draft value thing is always a bit confusing to my simple mind, but I don’t get it. We are saying we have up the equivalent of the 21st pick. 

So if we would have just given #29, that would be giving up #29. But since we moved up in the 2nd and 3rd, we gave up the equivalent of the 21st?

I can see that only if we moved down in the 3rd and 2nd. What am I not seeing?

[jetlord 10,208]

1 minute ago, DieHard said:

This draft value thing is always a bit confusing to my simple mind, but I don’t get it. We are saying we have up the equivalent of the 21st pick. 

So if we would have just given #29, that would be giving up #29. But since we moved up in the 2nd and 3rd, we gave up the equivalent of the 21st?

I can see that only if we moved down in the 3rd and 2nd. What am I not seeing?

You're not seeing next year's second. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

28 minutes ago, DefensiveMan said:

Anyone want to line up our starters on defense pre draft?

This has been a complete overhaul. 

Okafor, Nnadi, Jones, Clark

Attachu, Hitchens, Wilson?

Breeland, Fuller, Honey Badger, Watts? 

Ogbah-Nnadi-Jones-Clark

O'Daniel  -  Hitchens

(Draft pick) - Lucas - Fuller - Mathieu - Breeland or Ward

Speaks will split time at DT and DE.

[DieHard 2,061]

Ahh. Read it wrong. See, told you my mind was simple.

[Palangi 788]

11 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

Ogbah-Nnadi-Jones-Clark

O'Daniel  -  Hitchens

(Draft pick) - Lucas - Fuller - Mathieu - Breeland or Ward

Speaks will split time at DT and DE.

I with you I think we see speaks more as a pass rushing DT next year.  

Ogbah and Clark as the starting ends with Okafor and attaochu add the back ups and kpass fighting for a spot.  

I like the depth.  And with the added size and strength we should be much better against the run too

[oldtimer 8,685]

1 hour ago, SEMO said:

Just debate in the LR so I don’t have to move this thread over there.  Thanks.

2nd that

[liquidfriend 1,151]

7 minutes ago, Palangi said:

I with you I think we see speaks more as a pass rushing DT next year.  

Ogbah and Clark as the starting ends with Okafor and attaochu add the back ups and kpass fighting for a spot.  

I like the depth.  And with the added size and strength we should be much better against the run too

Ultimately I think we're going to see a bunch of different alignments as Spagnuolo likes to confuse opposing Offenses.  Speaks, Obgah, Jones and Clark can all play either inside or out depending on the scenario and it makes opposing Offenses account for a hell of a lot.

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

I hate this deal so much, this puts me on the fire veach bamdwagon, even if andy reid made the deal, someone needs to pay

[PAChiefsFan79 136]

5 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

I hate this deal so much, this puts me on the fire veach bamdwagon, even if andy reid made the deal, someone needs to pay

Khalil Mack stats compared to Frank Clark last 3 seasons

Frank Clark - 47 games, 32 sacks, 31 TFL, 66 QB Hits

Khalil Mack - 46 games, 34 sacks, 39 TFL, 66 QB Hits

 

 

Yup, totally horrible move.

[dksww 484]

8 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

I hate this deal so much, this puts me on the fire veach bamdwagon, even if andy reid made the deal, someone needs to pay

lol ya, let's fire the GM that constructed a roster that got us to the AFCCG for the first time in 25 years and completely overhauled the defense and defensive coaching staff the exact way fans wanted him to.

gtfoh, what are you complaing about?  the contract?  the draft picks?

who cares?  It's not OUR money.  The Chief have loads of cap room for 2020 and even 2021.  

They had 4, 4 2nd round picks over the next 2 years to bargain with.  The first round pick we gave up is basically a 2nd round pick as well.

the people bitching about this move are just bitching to bitch.

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

 

1 minute ago, PAChiefsFan79 said:

Khalil Mack stats compared to Frank Clark last 3 seasons

Frank Clark - 47 games, 32 sacks, 31 TFL, 66 QB Hits

Khalil Mack - 46 games, 34 sacks, 39 TFL, 66 QB Hits

 

 

Yup, totally horrible move.

Im not a fan of giving away cheap talented players via draft pick for edge rush. I think edge rush is too easily beaten by the good qbs when it matters the most, the playoffs.

i would rather load up our talent on the secondary and the interior d line.

 

[dksww 484]

 

8 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

 

Im not a fan of giving away cheap talented players via draft pick for edge rush. I think edge rush is too easily beaten by the good qbs when it matters the most, the playoffs.

i would rather load up our talent on the secondary and the interior d line.

 

Clark is better than pretty much anyone that will be taken at 29.

There weren't any top, lock down CBs available in FA and nobody is going to trade them away.  Look at the Cardinals, they're awful and they still won't trade of Peterson for picks.

They can address secondary in the draft now that DL and EDGE have been secured in FA and with the trade.

for Interior DL we already have Nnadi, Jones and Williams.  

[PAChiefsFan79 136]

8 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

 

Im not a fan of giving away cheap talented players via draft pick for edge rush. I think edge rush is too easily beaten by the good qbs when it matters the most, the playoffs.

i would rather load up our talent on the secondary and the interior d line.

 

There is more than one way to get pressure. Yes Clark is an edge rusher, but if you look at the big picture this defense isn't just about beating your man straight up. Its about twists, stunts, delayed blitzes, etc... so your opinion that Clark is just an edge rusher is wrong. Put Jones and Clark on the line with their long limbs and they can collapse a pocket and bat down passes.

 

You need more than just corners. Give a QB too much time and the best corners will get beat. We've witnessed that in KC too.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

Great move!  We get a guy ascending that is only 26 years old.  We fix a huge hole on this team and we still have 3 picks in the first 3 rounds to address some other holes we have.  I feel a whole lot better about our upcoming season after this move!