Why Should Chiefs Do the Right Thing ?

[reesebobby 5,664]

Just now, Fmbl2187 said:

You sure are trying, OT.  I have to hand it to you.  To me, a lot of the Hill defenders in here sound like they are squirming to avoid an unfortunate reality.

So tell me what you know to be the actual facts.  What exactly happened?  Not what you think happened.  What exactly happened to the kid and who did it.  Specifics.  And then explain how you know what happened.  And explain how you know more than the people that investigated it. And then explain why you have not shared these facts with the investigators.  This could possibly be obstruction of justice on your part. 

[Palangi 788]

3 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

So tell me what you know to be the actual facts.  What exactly happened?  Not what you think happened.  What exactly happened to the kid and who did it.  Specifics.  And then explain how you know what happened.  And explain how you know more than the people that investigated it. And then explain why you have not shared these facts with the investigators.  This could possibly be obstruction of justice on your part. 

Trying to wait patiently for all this knowledge to rain on us from the guy who was there when all this happened apparently

[oldtimer 8,694]

14 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

You sure are trying, OT.  I have to hand it to you.  To me, a lot of the Hill defenders in here sound like they are squirming to avoid an unfortunate reality. As for her problems, remember "like attracts like."

just trying to be like Wilkie  and wait for due process to do its thing al while look at both sides of the coin. our the one who seems all ready to throw him out with the bath water

[Adamixoye 604]

14 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

It was not a "mistake."  And you cannot unlearn a rage response.  It isn't something that you think and decide to do based on some kind of moral teaching or motivational instruction.   It is a pure emotional reaction.  It is not some kind of reasoned response.  It takes emotional re-programming which takes a very, very long time.  A lot longer than a career in football.   It is like asking Dexter from the TV series to just decide to start to have real feelings. I keep trying to post this, but no one seems to realize the nature of this kind of thing. It is not something that exists at the level of conscious decision-making.

Here's the problem with this.  You've cited the 90% statistic a lot, but didn't really back it up (at least to my mind) when asked - as I recall, you said something about confidence intervals, which is entirely different than a recurrence rate.

Even if there is an incredibly high recurrence rate for DV, and even if some people are predisposed to a certain type of "rage response," there is a lot of ground between that and saying that, in essence, "No one can change in this area.  Ever."  Is that your view of human nature, that we are robots, deterministic rather than having any sort of free will?  If so, what should we do about it?  Should any person who commits any act of violence, or at least any particular sub-class of an act of violence (like DV), just be executed on the spot because there is no hope for them?  You haven't suggested that but I'm having a hard time seeing how that isn't the logical conclusion of your viewpoint.

I just can't get on board with that human nature.  I do believe change is difficult.  But I do not believe it is impossible.  It's seems unlikely to me that Tyreek has truly, deeply changed, but I don't know his mind or heart and I believe it's possible for him to at least be a functioning member of society with the right help.

[oldtimer 8,694]

2 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

Here's the problem with this.  You've cited the 90% statistic a lot, but didn't really back it up (at least to my mind) when asked - as I recall, you said something about confidence intervals, which is entirely different than a recurrence rate.

Even if there is an incredibly high recurrence rate for DV, and even if some people are predisposed to a certain type of "rage response," there is a lot of ground between that and saying that, in essence, "No one can change in this area.  Ever."  Is that your view of human nature, that we are robots, deterministic rather than having any sort of free will?  If so, what should we do about it?  Should any person who commits any act of violence, or at least any particular sub-class of an act of violence (like DV), just be executed on the spot because there is no hope for them?  You haven't suggested that but I'm having a hard time seeing how that isn't the logical conclusion of your viewpoint.

I just can't get on board with that human nature.  I do believe change is difficult.  But I do not believe it is impossible.  It's seems unlikely to me that Tyreek has truly, deeply changed, but I don't know his mind or heart and I believe it's possible for him to at least be a functioning member of society with the right help.

you should go to the Locker room does it all the time.. He's Dr dontcha know?  have just to do this 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

3 hours ago, Adamixoye said:

Here's the problem with this.  You've cited the 90% statistic a lot, but didn't really back it up (at least to my mind) when asked - as I recall, you said something about confidence intervals, which is entirely different than a recurrence rate.

Even if there is an incredibly high recurrence rate for DV, and even if some people are predisposed to a certain type of "rage response," there is a lot of ground between that and saying that, in essence, "No one can change in this area.  Ever."  Is that your view of human nature, that we are robots, deterministic rather than having any sort of free will?  If so, what should we do about it?  Should any person who commits any act of violence, or at least any particular sub-class of an act of violence (like DV), just be executed on the spot because there is no hope for them?  You haven't suggested that but I'm having a hard time seeing how that isn't the logical conclusion of your viewpoint.

I just can't get on board with that human nature.  I do believe change is difficult.  But I do not believe it is impossible.  It's seems unlikely to me that Tyreek has truly, deeply changed, but I don't know his mind or heart and I believe it's possible for him to at least be a functioning member of society with the right help.

I think you should re-read carefully.  I said changing an emotional response takes a long, long time and requires a lot of practice.  Mental habits can be replaced by new mental habits using free wrll, of course, and changes can appear quickly.  Changing emotional responses requires a spritual transformation and daily re-inforcement.  When that happens, behavior will follow.  But that also takes daily meditiation  to maintain for the rest of your life.

You can change what you do.  But you can't change what you feel until you have developed a relationship with a higher power and then try to maintin that relationship daily. Tyreek could do it, of course, but it would take him quite a long time.  The Chiefs don't have that kind of time or pocketbook. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

KC Star columnist Sam Mellinger almost on point where I am with Tyreek RIGHT NOW....

Here’s where I’m at with Hill: I believe he doesn’t know the difference between abuse and discipline, that he and his fiancee Crystal Espinal have a toxic relationship, and at this point no piece of information on its way will surprise me.

Video of Hill doing something ugly? Sure. Damning video of Espinal that puts Hill in a much more positive light? Sure.

An incomplete list of developments so far: Hill and the woman he once pleaded guilty to punching and choking are involved in a child abuse investigation, news surfaces that the child in question suffered a broken arm, the Johnson County DA holds a remarkable news conference in which he is visibly frustrated while saying a crime was committed but he doesn’t know who to charge, audio leaks with Hill telling his fiancee “you should be terrified of me too, dumb bitch,” and shortly after saying he could not comment on the matter Hill’s lawyer sends a four-page letter to the NFL denying Hill ever hit his son and includes text messages he says have been authenticated but sure read fishy as heck in which she accepts all blame.

That’s a lot, and we didn’t even include the part where the Chiefs used their first pick (their first pick they didn’t trade for Frank Clark, anyway) for a short and fast receiver who sure seemed like Hill insurance (but also might be the Chris Conley replacement).

This situation is endlessly complicated, and loaded with emotions of every kind.

The three points I’ve hit hardest:

• The most important part of this is the little boy and the twins due soon.
• If it’s shown that Hill abused his son he should never play in the NFL again.
• No matter what the investigation concludes or the NFL decides, I hope Hill’s future includes the support and help he needs.  

  You could argue that each of those points is so obvious they don’t need to be made, but with all the noise around this I think it’s worth the time.

  Your question centers on Hill. Whatever the DA decides, and whatever the outcome of the potential — let’s emphasize potential — charges he will be suspended.

  But his lawyer threw a bit of a Hail Mary with that letter, and it worked enough to change the conversation. I remain skeptical that we’ll ever really know what happened, or have a certain feel for the worst of what’s gone on between Hill and Espinal.

  There is simply too much money at stake for Hill and Espinal and too much football at stake for the Chiefs — not to mention all the reasons these cases are often hard to prove.

  America has a tendency to believe the powerful and to discredit women in domestic abuse cases. That’s true even now, after Me Too and everything else. That’s not fair, and we should all work to even the scales, but for now it’s the reality of this and all similar cases.

  Even if — let’s emphasize even IF — it’s shown that those texts are something other than an honest and spontaneous and undirected exchange of ideas, they still exist. It’s part of the story.

  So, again. I don’t know what will happen. I never have. From the beginning, the likeliest outcome has teetered between a suspension and Hill’s release. There have been points where I thought I had a good and more specific guess, but at no point have I ever been sure. I think the same would be said in honest moments by Chiefs executives and lawyers on all sides.

  The biggest development of the last week or so is that the letter from Hill’s lawyer presented his side firmly and at least creates a path where he’ll be suspended but remain with the Chiefs.