kkuenn 3,614 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 On 6/3/2019 at 10:15 AM, Mloe68 said: Agree that Andy's offenses really take off when he finds that dynamic versatile back that can do it all. He's had four of those in his career so odds are he will find one again. But Williams very likely isn't that guy. As such I see more of a committee approach we used after Jamaal got hurt. I do disagree about Big Red not caring about the running game though. We had the leading rusher in the NFL in 2018! I actually think the critical running plays is where we missed Hunt the most as Andy is as good as it gets at scheming his WRs and RBs open in passing game. The Chargers blown lead was a perfect example. Williams three yard loss on first down trying to milk the lead was a dagger that likely never happens with Hunt. Also if it weren't for a bad overthrow from MVPat in the first half of the AFC Title game (no he's not perfect LOL), Williams would have had 100 yards and 3 TDs receiving in that game. He has only 2 RBs ever to lead the NFL in rushing. Not like they are killing it every year. Hunt and McCoy in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, kkuenn said: He has only 2 RBs ever to lead the NFL in rushing. Not like they are killing it every year. Hunt and McCoy in 2013. Two RBs lead the NFL in rushing is pretty solid for a guy that some people think doesn't care about running the ball! He's also had Staley 1,273, Westbrook 1,272, Westbrook 1,333, McCoy 1,080, McCoy 1,309, Charles 1,287, Charles 1,033, Hunt 1,327.... This doesn't even broach the all purpose yards and TDs where a guy like Jamaal Charles crushed his career highs in Andy's system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,614 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Mloe68 said: Two RBs lead the NFL in rushing is pretty solid for a guy that some people think doesn't care about running the ball! He's also had Staley 1,273, Westbrook 1,272, Westbrook 1,333, McCoy 1,080, McCoy 1,309, Charles 1,287, Charles 1,033, Hunt 1,327.... This doesn't even broach the all purpose yards and TDs where a guy like Jamaal Charles crushed his career highs in Andy's system. Not debating it, I just dont think he runs when he should in a lot of instances or gets to cute at times is all. There are plenty of coaches to get 1000 yard players but you had said to lead the NFL. I was just pointing out the fact he has had it only happen twice. I was curious too where those guys looked like at the yards for rushing. McCoy, his guy to lead it in 2013, is 52nd on this list for just rushing yards. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rush_yds_single_season.htm I know you will say all purpose yards etc and when I have time I will look at that too. I find looking up things helps me learn too and am interested in the results I look up. Mccoy in 2013 was his highest ranked all purpose yard leader and 76th on this list. Man I do hope we find a back that he can utilize for all 3 downs. Hunt was probably it but he fucked us on that one. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/all_purpose_yds_single_season.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 42 minutes ago, kkuenn said: Not debating it, I just dont think he runs when he should in a lot of instances or gets to cute at times is all. There are plenty of coaches to get 1000 yard players but you had said to lead the NFL. I was just pointing out the fact he has had it only happen twice. I was curious too where those guys looked like at the yards for rushing. McCoy, his guy to lead it in 2013, is 52nd on this list for just rushing yards. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rush_yds_single_season.htm I know you will say all purpose yards etc and when I have time I will look at that too. I find looking up things helps me learn too and am interested in the results I look up. Mccoy in 2013 was his highest ranked all purpose yard leader and 76th on this list. Man I do hope we find a back that he can utilize for all 3 downs. Hunt was probably it but he fucked us on that one. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/all_purpose_yds_single_season.htm Jamaal Charles had 1,980 all purpose yards in 2013 and scored 19 TDs....So in 15 games he scored 19 TDs in Andy's system while he had only scored 21 in 54 games before Andy got here. But again this was discussed a few weeks ago. Andy prefers athletic offensive lines that can get to the second level and help create big plays rather than road graters who can stuff the ball up the middle for 3 and 4 yards a pop. The downside of that is going to be short yardage interior running issues at time. And that's exactly how we got burned in that Chargers game when Williams got stuffed for a loss trying to run the clock out. So he plays to his teams strengths. This guy is as good as it gets at understanding what those are. It's why he's clearly our best coach since Hank Stram and why he will be a first ballot HOFer when MVPat hoists the trophy for him. JMO. As for the running back. We are in agreement Andy's offenses revolve and are at their best with a 3 down RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: Jamaal Charles had 1,980 all purpose yards in 2013 and scored 19 TDs....So in 15 games he scored 19 TDs in Andy's system while he had only scored 21 in 54 games before Andy got here. But again this was discussed a few weeks ago. Andy prefers athletic offensive lines that can get to the second level and help create big plays rather than road graters who can stuff the ball up the middle for 3 and 4 yards a pop. The downside of that is going to be short yardage interior running issues at time. And that's exactly how we got burned in that Chargers game when Williams got stuffed for a loss trying to run the clock out. So he plays to his teams strengths. This guy is as good as it gets at understanding what those are. It's why he's clearly our best coach since Hank Stram and why he will be a first ballot HOFer when MVPat hoists the trophy for him. JMO. As for the running back. We are in agreement Andy's offenses revolve and are at their best with a 3 down RB. I think poor clock management in crunch time is Reids issue. He scores too fast , even inside the ten , late in games. All KC losses were a result of exactly this last year including the Patriots game. Too much time left on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azchief21 5,278 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Williams and Hyde are serviceable and interchangeable. Both benefit from the fear of Mahomes going deep. Defenses can no longer crowd the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moons314 2,463 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 2 hours ago, FANATIC said: I think poor clock management in crunch time is Reids issue. He scores too fast , even inside the ten , late in games. All KC losses were a result of exactly this last year including the Patriots game. Too much time left on the clock. There's literally no such thing as scoring too fast. Reid's clock issues revolve around piss poor usage of time outs. Scoring slow is the Herm Edwards fallacy. Remember, his defenses were designed to keep everything in front of them and make teams have drives of 16 or 18 plays to get TDs. Then his offense did the exact thing that his defense was trying to create! What I'm saying is, you take the damn points, each and every time, no matter how fast or slow. If you have a dynamic offense that can and does score quick, if you start dicking around at the end of the game and take the air out of the ball and try to score "slow", odds are you're going to end up turning it over or punting, and then that time didn't matter because you didn't get the points. In situations such as the one you described against the Pats, you have to just let your offense play. You have to play to your identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 37 minutes ago, moons314 said: There's literally no such thing as scoring too fast. Reid's clock issues revolve around piss poor usage of time outs. Scoring slow is the Herm Edwards fallacy. Remember, his defenses were designed to keep everything in front of them and make teams have drives of 16 or 18 plays to get TDs. Then his offense did the exact thing that his defense was trying to create! What I'm saying is, you take the damn points, each and every time, no matter how fast or slow. If you have a dynamic offense that can and does score quick, if you start dicking around at the end of the game and take the air out of the ball and try to score "slow", odds are you're going to end up turning it over or punting, and then that time didn't matter because you didn't get the points. In situations such as the one you described against the Pats, you have to just let your offense play. You have to play to your identity. Completely disagree. Wasnt it Belichek , a few years ago, that let a team score quickly against the Pats so they would have time left on the clock to win? Completely disagree. Late in the game inside the 5 take time off the clock. Ist & goal , down 3 points, on the 2 with under a minute left. Chiefs score on the first play. 4 point lead. Guaranteed loss. Thats scoring too fast. The defense was certain to give up a score and did. 1 more play would have taken the clock down. Twp plays and almost no time left. Worse case they kicked a field goal to tie it. Know who you are and be confident you would score on 3rd or 4th down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 25 minutes ago, FANATIC said: Completely disagree. Wasnt it Belichek , a few years ago, that let a team score quickly against the Pats so they would have time left on the clock to win? Completely disagree. Late in the game inside the 5 take time off the clock. Ist & goal , down 3 points, on the 2 with under a minute left. Chiefs score on the first play. 4 point lead. Guaranteed loss. Thats scoring too fast. The defense was certain to give up a score and did. 1 more play would have taken the clock down. Twp plays and almost no time left. Worse case they kicked a field goal to tie it. Know who you are and be confident you would score on 3rd or 4th down. I don’t like the idea of slowing the offense down ever because we literally wear teams out and most other offenses just can’t keep up. And I don’t think you should play call conservative but rather what works when milking close lead. That said I do completely agree we should be running the play clock all the way down though in that situation. And Andy has just never really seemed to adapt to that. Cost us that Colts game. Good news is that’s not a complicated concept. Andy just needs one of his offensive assistants to get through to him how important it can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: I don’t like the idea of slowing the offense down ever because we literally wear teams out and most other offenses just can’t keep up. And I don’t think you should play call conservative but rather what works when milking close lead. That said I do completely agree we should be running the play clock all the way down though in that situation. And Andy has just never really seemed to adapt to that. Cost us that Colts game. Good news is that’s not a complicated concept. Andy just needs one of his offensive assistants to get through to him how important it can be. Exactly...... in that situation. Very much the same in the Pats game. Gave the Pats too much time. Mahommes tied it up though with I think 31 seconds left. Could have run the clock down then as well and gone to the superbowl. Reid did the same thing often at the end of halfs that gave teams time to score. When your defense is that bad its safer to assume they will fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, FANATIC said: Exactly...... in that situation. Very much the same in the Pats game. Gave the Pats too much time. Mahommes tied it up though with I think 31 seconds left. Could have run the clock down then as well and gone to the superbowl. Reid did the same thing often at the end of halfs that gave teams time to score. When your defense is that bad its safer to assume they will fail. Actually we took over down by 3 with around :38 left. And obviously got it tied to force OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: Actually we took over down by 3 with around :38 left. And obviously got it tied to force OT. Actually........Prior to that NE got the ball with around 1 minute left and took the lead. KC had just taken the 4 point lead..... too quickly..... Thats my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 3 hours ago, FANATIC said: Actually........Prior to that NE got the ball with around 1 minute left and took the lead. KC had just taken the 4 point lead..... too quickly..... Thats my point. Not seeing in that case. We were losing and had to score. The last two plays before the two minute warning were a 38 yard screen to Watkins. We then actually ran the play clock as deep as it could go and scored 2 seconds before the 2 minute warning. Again if you believe like I do you don’t intentionally try to not score, then we did all we could. And had we actually ran any more time it wouldn’t have left us time to tie it. There were two instances this year where we should have run some more clock and may have won. But not that game. It was perhaps the best 4th quarter in AFC Title game history. We lost because of a bad alignment and lost coin flip. It’s that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,210 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 15 hours ago, FANATIC said: Completely disagree. Wasnt it Belichek , a few years ago, that let a team score quickly against the Pats so they would have time left on the clock to win? Completely disagree. Late in the game inside the 5 take time off the clock. Ist & goal , down 3 points, on the 2 with under a minute left. Chiefs score on the first play. 4 point lead. Guaranteed loss. Thats scoring too fast. The defense was certain to give up a score and did. 1 more play would have taken the clock down. Twp plays and almost no time left. Worse case they kicked a field goal to tie it. Know who you are and be confident you would score on 3rd or 4th down. Okay, when down two or less points or tied, don't score too quickly. But down three, the offense has to try for a TD and should take it at any opportunity. Rather be up four with less than a minute than tied and in overtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 39 minutes ago, jetlord said: Okay, when down two or less points or tied, don't score too quickly. But down three, the offense has to try for a TD and should take it at any opportunity. Rather be up four with less than a minute than tied and in overtime. Rather be up 4 with 10 seconds left. We agree to disagree. The tie thing was guaranteed with that KC defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 21 minutes ago, FANATIC said: Rather be up 4 with 10 seconds left. We agree to disagree. The tie thing was guaranteed with that KC defense. So you are saying kneel on the ball down 4 with 2:05 left? So it’s 2nd and goal at the two minute warning. You couldn’t get it near 10 seconds left if you used every second of the clock and decided you were gonna go ahead and score on 4th and about 4. But guess what. The Patriots had all three timeouts left! We would have been risking not scoring and gotten almost no clock benefit. And had we done that we don’t leave enough time for us to score. Bottom line is theres no scenario we could have worked the clock all the way down from inside the five even if we wanted too. And it would have cost us the game in regulation to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West 6,714 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 No Tyreek and WR is my top concern on Offense w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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