Chris Jones Contract Issues

[xen 1,010,220]

Chiefs star Chris Jones’ holdout and what it means for his future | The Kansas City Star

SAM MELLINGER

Chiefs star Chris Jones’ holdout and what it means for his future

BY SAM MELLINGER

JUNE 13, 2019 11:47 AM, UPDATED JUNE 13, 2019 05:50 PM

Kansas City Chiefs defensive tackle Chris Jones likes to have fun and stay upbeat, but when it comes time to play football Jones like to motivate himself by making up stories and getting mad. BY JOHN SLEEZER | BROOKE PRYOR

Chiefs fans, here is the good news: Chris Jones wants to be with the Chiefs, and the Chiefs want Chris Jones.

More good news: there is basically a 100 percent chance he plays for the Chiefs this fall.

Now, here is the current reality, and why this column is being written: the Chiefs and Jones are not particularly close on a long-term contract and the situation figures to grow more contentious before it resolves.

Jones is due a $1.2 million base salary in the last year of his rookie contract. He skipped last month’s voluntary practices, and is skipping this week’s mandatory minicamp. Jones’ agents, Michael and Jason Katz, are not speaking publicly about this. Same with Chiefs general manager Brett Veach.

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Last month, Chiefs coach Andy Reid was short when asked about Jones.

“We just go,” he said. “You’re here, you get better. You’re not, you don’t.”

A league source and an agent experienced in similar situations provide the basis for what we might call informed speculation.

From the Chiefs’ perspective, they just gave Frank Clark $63.5 million guaranteed over the next three years and know that Patrick Mahomes will soon be eligible for what could be the biggest contract in league history. Tyreek Hill, depending on the outcome of an ongoing investigation by child protective services, is also in line for a long-term contract.

Since taking the job two years ago, one of Veach’s main charges has been relieving the team’s salary cap stress. That means shorter contracts when possible, and diligent allocation of guarantees always.

The Chiefs will almost certainly want to add at least one cornerback next offseason, for instance. Cap space is at a premium.

The 2019 franchise tag value for a defensive end is $17.1 million. Projecting from there, the Chiefs would likely owe Jones around $42 million over the next three seasons with two franchise tags.

From the team’s perspective, that would likely be the guidepost for an offer: add a little more to retain franchise flexibility going forward and maybe it’s $45 million to $48 million in guarantees over the next three years.

That would give Jones financial certainty without going through the tag process, and the team would retain tag flexibility and be protected against Jones’ price going up over the next few years.

Before we get to Jones’ perspective, a note: some have brought up the Chiefs’ change of defensive coordinators and scheme as an explanation for the team not matching Jones’ ask. At best, that’s a small consideration. Clark was in a different system last year, and it could be soundly argued that Jones faced more challenges succeeding on a bad defense last year than Clark did in Seattle.

OK. Let’s do Jones’ side now, and it starts with the same opening premise: the Chiefs just gave Frank Clark $63.5 million guaranteed over the next three years.

So why shouldn’t Jones expect something similar?

The Chiefs, like most NFL teams, prioritize signing their own stars first. Jones was more productive than Clark last season, finishing third in the league with 15 1/2 sacks while playing inside. Clark had 13 and is a year older than Jones.

Aaron Donald and Khalil Mack have changed the contracts available to defensive players. Donald signed for $87 million in guarantees; Mack got $90 million in guarantees.

If that’s the bar for transcendent defensive stars, then Jones — who turns 25 next month and can still get better — should be in line for a second-tier contract.

The problem is the same as every negotiation, sports and otherwise: leverage.

If we’re using Clark as the comparison, he was in the same situation last year. He entered the final season of his rookie contract set to make $943,938.

He and Seahawks talked through a possible extension but couldn’t agree. The timing of Mack’s contract with the Bears didn’t help, pushing the market to a price the Seahawks couldn’t or didn’t want to afford knowing star quarterback Russell Wilson would be due soon.

Clark played out his rookie deal, dominated, and was in line for the Seahawks’ franchise tag before the Chiefs traded for him and approached his new contract the way they would for a free agent.

The salary cap goes up every year, and conventional wisdom is constantly being challenged, but that’s the general process here.

So in that way, Jones is making this move one year early if he’s aiming for top-tier money.

Now, it’s worth mentioning that the Chiefs have a history of giving in. They walked to the edge and blinked with Dwayne Bowe, Eric Berry and Justin Houston. Each contract was largely seen as player friendly. Each has been regretted by the organization, to some degree.

Veach was in the Chiefs’ front office for those deals, but this is his first negotiation for a major extension as general manager. Functionally, his biggest difference from Dorsey might be prioritizing youth and flexibility over experience and certainty.

The negotiation with Jones, then, becomes the first major test.

There can be no way to know exactly how this will go, but at least at the moment nobody should be surprised if Jones doesn’t show up for the start of training camp.

It appears Jones has a choice: he can take the financial security now and sign for slightly more than he’d be in line for by playing well the next two seasons.

Or, he can take the same risk Clark did and play out the final season of his rookie contract. If he’s as productive and dominant as Clark was last year then he’ll get a contract as big or bigger.

The problem for the Chiefs is that by then, the price will have risen and if Jones follows Clark’s path to the end he’ll get that contract somewhere else.

 

[Handswarmer 645]

4 hours ago, robgar said:

your seeing this because of the structure of the collective bargaining agreement. It truly does not make sense for Jones to hold out  this year. but what do . I know. 

Absolutely! Because teams can just cut a player only have the Salary Cap as a ramification. Plus players can sign for shorter contracts enabling another payday in a somewhat short career.

 

Now, just don't go spending that $$$ on a $250k jacked up truck or Bentley....

[Handswarmer 645]

On 6/13/2019 at 7:55 AM, FANATIC said:

These players are mostly selfish. They are gifted and able to play a game and become wealthy. They talk Team. They talk winning. They mostly only care about their bulging bank accounts and brand. If Jones cared about the guy next to him he would be there learning this new defense. If he cared about winning and the fans he would be there.

Teams are crazy to let guys get away with this. They know they can do it and thus!

Is a team selfish when it cuts a player to save money against the Salary Cap?

Asking for a friend.

[kkuenn 3,614]

6 minutes ago, Handswarmer said:

Is a team selfish when it cuts a player to save money against the Salary Cap?

Asking for a friend.

No because the player knows he is being cut to do the team a solid. The player is a true team guy then. 

😉

[sith13 1,746]

4 hours ago, robgar said:

your seeing this because of the structure of the collective bargaining agreement. It truly does not make sense for Jones to hold out  this year. but what do . I know. 

Rookies cannot hold out any seasons. They have to report to the camp at a certain time, so in Jones' case he's simply missing time he could be using to get better hence a bigger paycheck. 

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, sith13 said:

Rookies cannot hold out any seasons. They have to report to the camp at a certain time, so in Jones' case he's simply missing time he could be using to get better hence a bigger paycheck. 

Or get injured and never see his big payday.

[robgar 1,046]

no, gentlemen, this year there are restrictions, in what can and cant be done within a contract....  we are entering the final years of the nflpa/nfl collective bargaining agreement..

This is what I was referring to. 

 

Not, the politics of it, not the potential for injury part.. but the simple business aspects ..

[sith13 1,746]

4 hours ago, xen said:

Or get injured and never see his big payday.

It can happen when training on his own as well like Bray and his endless injuries. The rules are simple he must join the team some time during summer and play out his rookie contract. So the injury risk without an extra dime is always there for him. Might as well join the team and blow everyone away at camp so he can get his big payday this summer as opposed to risking the season without a new contract.

[FANATIC 852]

Chiefs can set a standard. Hold out....you get franchised and dealt. PERIOD. I think I saw 4 players are currently not attending mandatory camp. There must be way more than 4 in this situation. If a team is willing to pay big bucks any player is replaceable......SEE the contract KC gave CLARK

[Mloe68 1,521]

7 hours ago, Handswarmer said:

Is a team selfish when it cuts a player to save money against the Salary Cap?

Asking for a friend.

I don't like this logic because the contract themselves allow for the team to get out of it. If they want a guarantee, then get a contract with a guarantee. Once you sign that contract, you should live up to the terms of it. And again those terms allow the team not the player to have options.

That said I'm on the players side on these second contracts. The NFL is monopoly and there aren't any other viable alternatives to go get the money you think you deserve. Veterans live by that as well BUT they still can market themselves to 32 clubs and take the best offer. Rookies are placed on a team and their salary is slotted so that there is basically no negotiation. So when they finally get a year out from having some alternatives and are asked to continue to play for paltry money, I understand the logic of holding out until it really matters to reduce the risk of injury and a major loss of money.  

[oldtimer 8,694]

1 hour ago, Mloe68 said:

I don't like this logic because the contract themselves allow for the team to get out of it. If they want a guarantee, then get a contract with a guarantee. Once you sign that contract, you should live up to the terms of it. And again those terms allow the team not the player to have options.

That said I'm on the players side on these second contracts. The NFL is monopoly and there aren't any other viable alternatives to go get the money you think you deserve. Veterans live by that as well BUT they still can market themselves to 32 clubs and take the best offer. Rookies are placed on a team and their salary is slotted so that there is basically no negotiation. So when they finally get a year out from having some alternatives and are asked to continue to play for paltry money, I understand the logic of holding out until it really matters to reduce the risk of injury and a major loss of money.  

 I disagree with that statement..NFL is not a monopoly. They are 1 of many entertainment enterprises  out there &  just because  a player has no other skills to market is no fault of the NFL. They get to play a game at the level that a great many individuals wish they could do. If they cant make that $$ then tough shit  use their education ..I have 0 sympathy for  people making 7 digit salaries  straight out of college..yea yea yea they are risking their lives ..so our our troops. LEO's  and others ....pay them 7 digits then I'll listen to your argument

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, oldtimer said:

 I disagree with that statement..NFL is not a monopoly. They are 1 of many entertainment enterprises  out there &  just because  a player has no other skills to market is no fault of the NFL. They get to play a game at the level that a great many individuals wish they could do. If they cant make that $$ then tough shit  use their education ..I have 0 sympathy for  people making 7 digit salaries  straight out of college..yea yea yea they are risking their lives ..so our our troops. LEO's  and others ....pay them 7 digits then I'll listen to your argument

Disagree.   It's simple supply and demand.  If people would only pay money to watch me fart on my couch, I'd be a millionaire.  Unfortunately the demand just isn't there... yet.

It's fallacy imo to compare the NFL and sports to any other industry except entertainment.  If you have the leverage to pull it off (getting a new contract) more power to you.  NFL players on rookie contracts who are eligible to renegotiate, and by the CBA Jones is now eligible, have no leverage except to withhold services.  

It's not about how much he makes compared to Joe Smith the plumber or Bob Jones the doctor, it's how much he makes compared to his market value.  

And yes, the NFL is a monopoly.  It's a self contained system with no real competitors.  Just because you're good at football doesn't mean you can sing or dance.  

[oldtimer 8,694]

8 minutes ago, xen said:

Disagree.   It's simple supply and demand.  If people would only pay money to watch me fart on my couch, I'd be a millionaire.  Unfortunately the demand just isn't there... yet.

 

 

 I just bought a $50 bottle of 125 proof 1792 bourbon and my swig just went up my nose.... you owe me brother

[DieHard 2,061]

I am not tripping over this. Pretty standard. Hell Berry and Houston both skipped OTAs and weren’t even working a contract. It’s no big deal.

Jones is a stud. If we play him 2 more years and he blows an Achilles, we are geniuses. If we do the same think and he goes to the HOF with another team after he leaves, we are idiots. 

Its all a judgement call. If he is asking for a  record breaking contract, then ghosts of Berry and Houston have to be in the back of their heads. 

[FANATIC 852]

8 hours ago, DieHard said:

I am not tripping over this. Pretty standard. Hell Berry and Houston both skipped OTAs and weren’t even working a contract. It’s no big deal.

Jones is a stud. If we play him 2 more years and he blows an Achilles, we are geniuses. If we do the same think and he goes to the HOF with another team after he leaves, we are idiots. 

Its all a judgement call. If he is asking for a  record breaking contract, then ghosts of Berry and Houston have to be in the back of their heads. 

Not sure the Berry & Houston contracts worked out?  

[kkuenn 3,614]

Pretty much what we all have said in this.

 

https://arrowheadaddict.com/2019/06/14/chris-jones-contract-negotiations-chiefs-understanding-both-sides/

 

 

[Handswarmer 645]

On 6/14/2019 at 5:00 PM, Mloe68 said:

I don't like this logic because the contract themselves allow for the team to get out of it. If they want a guarantee, then get a contract with a guarantee. Once you sign that contract, you should live up to the terms of it. And again those terms allow the team not the player to have options.

That said I'm on the players side on these second contracts. The NFL is monopoly and there aren't any other viable alternatives to go get the money you think you deserve. Veterans live by that as well BUT they still can market themselves to 32 clubs and take the best offer. Rookies are placed on a team and their salary is slotted so that there is basically no negotiation. So when they finally get a year out from having some alternatives and are asked to continue to play for paltry money, I understand the logic of holding out until it really matters to reduce the risk of injury and a major loss of money.  

Direct result of the last couple of CBA's ( before the current one) where you had the Sam Bradford contracts of $50 million guaranteed for an unproven rookie coming out of college.

[Mloe68 1,521]

1 hour ago, Handswarmer said:

Direct result of the last couple of CBA's ( before the current one) where you had the Sam Bradford contracts of $50 million guaranteed for an unproven rookie coming out of college.

No doubt some of those rookie contracts were absurd. Owners needed rules in place to protect them from themselves really. And it was a no brainer for the veteran players to agree to sell out future rookies who weren’t even in the league to have any voice yet. The new CBA rules really worked in mostly eliminating holdouts too.  

That said you also get an elite level players making far less than a punter who can’t even begin negotiating a new contract until after three years of service.  So when they can negotiate I’m just saying I understand them trying to protect themselves in the wake of the most important and lucrative contract they will likely ever sign in their lifetime. 

[Handswarmer 645]

3 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

No doubt some of those rookie contracts were absurd. Owners needed rules in place to protect them from themselves really. And it was a no brainer for the veteran players to agree to sell out future rookies who weren’t even in the league to have any voice yet. The new CBA rules really worked in mostly eliminating holdouts too.  

That said you also get an elite level players making far less than a punter who can’t even begin negotiating a new contract until after three years of service.  So when they can negotiate I’m just saying I understand them trying to protect themselves in the wake of the most important and lucrative contract they will likely ever sign in their lifetime. 

I do not disagree with this- in fact, I agree wholeheartedly.

[qnet 1,159]

Very good points from all sides on this issue. I just hope they can work this out. I have a good feeling about having Jones and Clark on the Dline the new scheme. 

[xen 1,010,220]

Not to throw wood on the fire but I would consider trading Jones.  

[jetlord 10,210]

3 minutes ago, xen said:

Not to throw wood on the fire but I would consider trading Jones.  

So how much could the Chiefs get for him?  More than they paid for Clark?

[xen 1,010,220]

30 minutes ago, jetlord said:

So how much could the Chiefs get for him?  More than they paid for Clark?

First I would not do it til next offseason and then do a tag and trade.  And this is only if his contract demands are unreasonable.  But yeah you could get quite a bit.  Teams are starting to understand how valuable interior pressure can be.  If they could get a fletcher cox, Aaron Donald type (he ain't Donald, but he also ain't that far behind) I think they would line up.  Once that happens who knows how stupid GMs would get in a bidding war.

[oldtimer 8,694]

57 minutes ago, xen said:

First I would not do it til next offseason and then do a tag and trade.  And this is only if his contract demands are unreasonable.  But yeah you could get quite a bit.  Teams are starting to understand how valuable interior pressure can be.  If they could get a fletcher cox, Aaron Donald type (he ain't Donald, but he also ain't that far behind) I think they would line up.  Once that happens who knows how stupid GMs would get in a bidding war.

my feeling exactly

[Mloe68 1,521]

1 hour ago, xen said:

First I would not do it til next offseason and then do a tag and trade.  And this is only if his contract demands are unreasonable.  But yeah you could get quite a bit.  Teams are starting to understand how valuable interior pressure can be.  If they could get a fletcher cox, Aaron Donald type (he ain't Donald, but he also ain't that far behind) I think they would line up.  Once that happens who knows how stupid GMs would get in a bidding war.

Problem here is that they are going to have to decide what to do with Tyreek first. And that may very well be the hold up. We can't keep Tyreek and trade him after the season if we are planning on using the franchise tag on Jones. I'm hearing more and more rumblings that Tyreek will be back by training camp and his suspension may not be that long. We will see, but either way Clark Hunt is likely going to be hesitant to pay Tyreek big money and that puts Veach in a difficult position with Jones.