Handswarmer 645 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 14 hours ago, reesebobby said: It's stupid that people think that matters. Or the curse of the Babe. The next 10 MVP's might win the Super Bowl. A quarterback playing well enough to win the MVP is not harmful to the teams chances of winning a Super Bowl. And the fact that Brady, Manning and Rodgers have a bunch of MVP's and a bunch of Super Bowl wins that don't always coincide season to season is possibly the least relevant thing ever discussed. Which tells me that its more important to have a successful team than individual accolades, thereby rendering all the "We have MVPat, we're gonna win the SB!" talk irrelevant as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troyofoc 361 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 9 hours ago, Handswarmer said: Which tells me that its more important to have a successful team than individual accolades, thereby rendering all the "We have MVPat, we're gonna win the SB!" talk irrelevant as well. I think it's safe to say if Lamar Jackson was the chiefs qb, and without last year's Ravens defense we chief fans most likely wouldn't even be talking playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Troyofoc said: I think it's safe to say if Lamar Jackson was the chiefs qb, and without last year's Ravens defense we chief fans most likely wouldn't even be talking playoffs. Agree......Super Bowl Bound with Mr You Know Man Jackson ......... thats so funny 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qnet 1,150 Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 I understand the point of the thread, but understand were Handswarmer is coming from also. If the Chiefs defense doesn't improve and a team does just enough to slow down Mahomes, the Chiefs still may not make it to the SB, let alone win it. In the AFCC, Mahomes outplayed Brady overall but, the Patriots running game, which the Chiefs defense couldn't stop; and a few very good plays by Brady & his receivers were enough for them to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/21/2019 at 7:13 PM, FANATIC said: Agree......Super Bowl Bound with Mr You Know Man Jackson ......... thats so funny 😂 I do not think you have the capacity to think beyond an insult, or a perceived one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/21/2019 at 11:38 PM, qnet said: I understand the point of the thread, but understand were Handswarmer is coming from also. If the Chiefs defense doesn't improve and a team does just enough to slow down Mahomes, the Chiefs still may not make it to the SB, let alone win it. In the AFCC, Mahomes outplayed Brady overall but, the Patriots running game, which the Chiefs defense couldn't stop; and a few very good plays by Brady & his receivers were enough for them to win. Bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/21/2019 at 8:38 PM, qnet said: I understand the point of the thread, but understand were Handswarmer is coming from also. If the Chiefs defense doesn't improve and a team does just enough to slow down Mahomes, the Chiefs still may not make it to the SB, let alone win it. In the AFCC, Mahomes outplayed Brady overall but, the Patriots running game, which the Chiefs defense couldn't stop; and a few very good plays by Brady & his receivers were enough for them to win. Sure... But in reality.... Hands in Pants is coming from is Trolling Negativity on a Chiefs Board. Thats it. Stirring up S**T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,597 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, FANATIC said: Sure... But in reality.... Hands in Pants is coming from is Trolling Negativity on a Chiefs Board. Thats it. Stirring up S**T. I dont see him stirring it up at all. Just giving counter points and thoughts? To each his own I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamixoye 604 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/21/2019 at 10:38 PM, qnet said: I understand the point of the thread, but understand were Handswarmer is coming from also. If the Chiefs defense doesn't improve and a team does just enough to slow down Mahomes, the Chiefs still may not make it to the SB, let alone win it. In the AFCC, Mahomes outplayed Brady overall but, the Patriots running game, which the Chiefs defense couldn't stop; and a few very good plays by Brady & his receivers were enough for them to win. This isn't wrong but my counterpoint would be that we had a bottom-of-the-league defense and still ended regulation of the AFCCG with a chance to go to the Super Bowl. That's how far Patrick took us. If you have a top-of-the-league QB you could put trash around him and you'll be middling at worst. Put something halfway decent around him and you'll compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,597 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, Adamixoye said: This isn't wrong but my counterpoint would be that we had a bottom-of-the-league defense and still ended regulation of the AFCCG with a chance to go to the Super Bowl. That's how far Patrick took us. If you have a top-of-the-league QB you could put trash around him and you'll be middling at worst. Put something halfway decent around him and you'll compete. See the GB Packers as a model of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamixoye 604 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, kkuenn said: See the GB Packers as a model of this. Insofar as many people would agree they haven't done a very good job of building around Rodgers, and yet they still managed to get one SB and be competitive in most other years. I happen to think Rodgers is a touch overrated but the point still stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,016 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,209 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Adamixoye said: This isn't wrong but my counterpoint would be that we had a bottom-of-the-league defense and still ended regulation of the AFCCG with a chance to go to the Super Bowl. That's how far Patrick took us. If you have a top-of-the-league QB you could put trash around him and you'll be middling at worst. Put something halfway decent around him and you'll compete. Mahomes didn't do it on his own. The Chiefs had top players around him on offense. Hill, Kelce, Watkins, Schwartz, and Hunt were elite at their positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamixoye 604 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, jetlord said: Mahomes didn't do it on his own. The Chiefs had top players around him on offense. Hill, Kelce, Watkins, Schwartz, and Hunt were elite at their positions. Well, I'm not saying he did it on his own, they definitely had talent on offense. But the line as a whole was not the best, and you mention two players who missed significant time in Hunt and Watkins. Without Mahomes I would say the 2018 team was maybe a C/C- overall (not just talent, but factoring in how a defense with at least a little talent underperformed in Sutton's schemes). Add Mahomes and you're competitive in the AFCCG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,597 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 14 minutes ago, Adamixoye said: Well, I'm not saying he did it on his own, they definitely had talent on offense. But the line as a whole was not the best, and you mention two players who missed significant time in Hunt and Watkins. Without Mahomes I would say the 2018 team was maybe a C/C- overall (not just talent, but factoring in how a defense with at least a little talent underperformed in Sutton's schemes). Add Mahomes and you're competitive in the AFCCG. Dont forget time missed on the line too with LG, C and RG all seeing time missed. That hurts an offense a lot for continuity etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Yeah. Other than the tackles, Oline was a MASH unit. This kid with a solid Oline is a scary prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 99 problems and QB ain’t 1. Finally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 19 hours ago, FANATIC said: Sure... But in reality.... Hands in Pants is coming from is Trolling Negativity on a Chiefs Board. Thats it. Stirring up S**T. Hearye, hearye.... the Home Troll has spoken 19 hours ago, kkuenn said: I dont see him stirring it up at all. Just giving counter points and thoughts? To each his own I guess. Pretty much 19 hours ago, Adamixoye said: This isn't wrong but my counterpoint would be that we had a bottom-of-the-league defense and still ended regulation of the AFCCG with a chance to go to the Super Bowl. That's how far Patrick took us. If you have a top-of-the-league QB you could put trash around him and you'll be middling at worst. Put something halfway decent around him and you'll compete. Thats the point- TEAMs have success. Manning all those years had a trash defense and Oline. Little running game but great WR's and TE. Rodgers the same. 19 hours ago, kkuenn said: See the GB Packers as a model of this. Word up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamixoye 604 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 29 minutes ago, Handswarmer said: Thats the point- TEAMs have success. Manning all those years had a trash defense and Oline. Little running game but great WR's and TE. Rodgers the same. No one would say that you don't need a team. But your chances of building a winner are better with a good-to-great QB with some weaknesses around him vs. a good-to-great team surrounding an average-to-weak QB. Over the last 25 years there are examples of both but looking at Super Bowl participants there are more of the former than the latter by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 35 minutes ago, Adamixoye said: No one would say that you don't need a team. But your chances of building a winner are better with a good-to-great QB with some weaknesses around him vs. a good-to-great team surrounding an average-to-weak QB. Over the last 25 years there are examples of both but looking at Super Bowl participants there are more of the former than the latter by far. Let me elaborate- if Manning, Rodgers, Brees, etc would have had better teams around them, they would have won more SB's. I am not discounting Mahomes and his ability- he is a freakishly good QB. If he keeps performing he will be great. My stance is that teams win- even the great ones need a team to win. Both sides of the ball. Very few teams can win by being great on one side and not on the other. The 00 Ravens and 03 Bucs come to mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,597 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 23 minutes ago, Handswarmer said: Let me elaborate- if Manning, Rodgers, Brees, etc would have had better teams around them, they would have won more SB's. I am not discounting Mahomes and his ability- he is a freakishly good QB. If he keeps performing he will be great. My stance is that teams win- even the great ones need a team to win. Both sides of the ball. Very few teams can win by being great on one side and not on the other. The 00 Ravens and 03 Bucs come to mind Manning won because Sanders came back and their horrible defense finally played lights out. He did good though in the playoffs if I remember correctly all but one game on that run. Still the defense kept them well ahead. His 2nd win with Denver was all Denver defense. Manning was even benched that year and was a shell of a QB during their run for the SB. Hell their first SB appearance for Denver with Manning they had all the pieces on defense there and he was MVP with the best offense and he still did squat in that game. Rodgers problem is he creates his own problems by undercutting others like his coaches. Already there were reports he is not happy, wants to have ability to call any plays etc. Now they have tried, many times, to draft heavy on defense but again, it seems to be self induced at many levels on that team. Brees gets screwed by refs during key games in the playoffs. Nothing he can or the team can do about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 hours ago, kkuenn said: Brees gets screwed by refs during key games in the playoffs. Nothing he can or the team can do about that. I was talking about prior to 2018. That was a horrible call but in the end, they didn't do enough earlier in the game to get to where they needed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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