5 potential holdouts including Justin Houston

[AZ~ 15]

Houston is the second player listed after Andre Johnson

 

http://q.usatoday.com/2014/07/14/nfl-holdouts-training-camp-andre-johnson-justin-houston/

[CWil 30]

Dorsey and Houston's agent just need to get this shit done. 

 

You don't let one of your best players leave. It is pointless to let this thing draw out and create more of an issue than it needs to be. Houston deserves his money and both sides just need to get this thing figured out, so he doesn't miss any time. Not to mention, missing time in training camp almost always leads to some type of injury. 

 

Get the deal inked before camp Dors

[mongo 92]

Dorsey and Houston's agent just need to get this shit done. 

 

You don't let one of your best players leave. It is pointless to let this thing draw out and create more of an issue than it needs to be. Houston deserves his money and both sides just need to get this thing figured out, so he doesn't miss any time. Not to mention, missing time in training camp almost always leads to some type of injury. 

 

Get the deal inked before camp Dors

Houston is going nowhere.  While I have no problem with them getting a deal done now, what's the rush?  He's in the last year of his rookie contract.  Enjoy the savings.  He'll get his.  I'd rather they use the Brandon Flowers savings to extend Eric Berry and reduce his cap hit.

[West 6,713]

Sports Illustrated lists the Chiefs as one possible destination for Andre Johnson....

 

"They have $10. mil of cap space, and no clear number one WR.....they could swing this deal".

 

w

[Mr Ev 332]

Sports Illustrated lists the Chiefs as one possible destination for Andre Johnson....

 

"They have $10. mil of cap space, and no clear number one WR.....they could swing this deal".

 

w

Great, but no thanks. Towards the end of his career. Unless the price is right I'll pass.

[oldtimer 8,684]

Sports Illustrated lists the Chiefs as one possible destination for Andre Johnson....

 

"They have $10. mil of cap space, and no clear number one WR.....they could swing this deal".

 

w

 

 

and so where does the $$ come from to sign Alex Smith & Houston if they do???? It's not as if he'd be the final piece that will get us to the SB

 

 Stupid SI

[CWil 30]

Houston is going nowhere.  While I have no problem with them getting a deal done now, what's the rush?  He's in the last year of his rookie contract.  Enjoy the savings.  He'll get his.  I'd rather they use the Brandon Flowers savings to extend Eric Berry and reduce his cap hit.

With the deal worked right you can still sign both Houston and Berry. 

 

My biggest issue is getting him into camp(mainly because missing time in training camp hurts the team). Granted he is under contract so he should be in camp, but everyone knows he deserves more money. Yes the savings is nice, but what does it really matter. Our team is pretty much set and we have plenty of money to extend both Houston and Berry. Maybe the process pisses Houston off and he ends up not wanting to sign here. We can tag him next year, but at that point he may say screw it and go to elsewhere after next year and that is not something I would be happy about. 

 

I just don't understand why this is taking so long. A Clay Matthews type of deal gets this done and isn't entirely out of the question for Houston. With that said if he is asking for more than that, then I can see why it hasn't. 

[Mugsy 225]

Houston still has something to prove imo. I am a huge UGA fan. I think it's awesome when the Chiefs get Dawgs players. I even have his jersey. However, lets be real about this. Here are the issues with Houston:

 

1. He's had drug problems in the past. He was dumb enough to fail a drug test at the combine. That's pretty dumb. We've been lucky and been able to pay him as a minimum risk over the past few years. What's he going to do when he gets paid? How is he going to handle that?

 

2. He's never played ROLB in college or in the pros. He's going against right tackles all the time. Not left tackles. How would he do against left tackles? Could he be Hali's replacement? Should he get paid like a ROLB? He's not playing the same position as Clay Mathews, Von Miller, or Aldon Smith. He's playing LOLB.

 

3. He's coming off an injury. They haven't seen him practice. Is he healed up?

 

I think Dorsey will compare him to LOLB Lamar Woodley. Woodley was a stud in Pittsburgh until he got his second contract. There are plenty of reasons not to sign Houston just yet imo.

[CWil 30]

Houston still has something to prove imo. I am a huge UGA fan. I think it's awesome when the Chiefs get Dawgs players. I even have his jersey. However, lets be real about this. Here are the issues with Houston:

 

1. He's had drug problems in the past. He was dumb enough to fail a drug test at the combine. That's pretty dumb. We've been lucky and been able to pay him as a minimum risk over the past few years. What's he going to do when he gets paid? How is he going to handle that?

 

2. He's never played ROLB in college or in the pros. He's going against right tackles all the time. Not left tackles. How would he do against left tackles? Could he be Hali's replacement? Should he get paid like a ROLB? He's not playing the same position as Clay Mathews, Von Miller, or Aldon Smith. He's playing LOLB.

 

3. He's coming off an injury. They haven't seen him practice. Is he healed up?

 

I think Dorsey will compare him to LOLB Lamar Woodley. Woodley was a stud in Pittsburgh until he got his second contract. There are plenty of reasons not to sign Houston just yet imo.

 

1. Nobody really knows that question but Justin. Its kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I wouldnt let this hold up any contract though. You simply put an out clause in the contract if he is suspended and you cover your ass.

 

2. Houston plays both sides quite a bit. Him and Hali move all over the field and flip flop. I think he is better than Tamba and you cant forget his coverage skills and ability against the run. He is a more complete player than probably all the guys you named there as all those guys are pretty much pass rush specialist. 

 

3. If I remember right, his injury wasn't very serious. Also he has been posting his works out on instagram for the past week and he looks good.

[kcchief4lif 910]

What was the injury in the playoff game? II dont remember what it was or his status.

[Calichief 3,016]

1. Nobody really knows that question but Justin. Its kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I wouldnt let this hold up any contract though. You simply put an out clause in the contract if he is suspended and you cover your ass.

 

2. Houston plays both sides quite a bit. Him and Hali move all over the field and flip flop. I think he is better than Tamba and you cant forget his coverage skills and ability against the run. He is a more complete player than probably all the guys you named there as all those guys are pretty much pass rush specialist.

 

3. If I remember right, his injury wasn't very serious. Also he has been posting his works out on instagram for the past week and he looks good.

He's the best player and only game changer we have on defense. He's a star.

[Calichief 3,016]

What was the injury in the playoff game? II dont remember what it was or his status.

Minor leg thing I think. Hammy or something.

[Mugsy 225]

1. Nobody really knows that question but Justin. Its kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I wouldnt let this hold up any contract though. You simply put an out clause in the contract if he is suspended and you cover your ass.

 

2. Houston plays both sides quite a bit. Him and Hali move all over the field and flip flop. I think he is better than Tamba and you cant forget his coverage skills and ability against the run. He is a more complete player than probably all the guys you named there as all those guys are pretty much pass rush specialist. 

 

3. If I remember right, his injury wasn't very serious. Also he has been posting his works out on instagram for the past week and he looks good.

 

They really don't switch them very much. It's really only once or twice a game. Houston really isn't very good in pass coverage. Even for a 3-4 OLB. He rarely drops into coverage period. Maybe part of that is because he has Berry behind him but, I think it's mostly because he can't cover. Tamba drops into coverage 4-5 times as much. Houston's good against the run but, he's not nealy as good as Tamba. 

 

I like Houston but, he's not as good as Tamba Hali yet imo.

 

He's the best player and only game changer we have on defense. He's a star.

 

No way, Berry is the one teams gameplan around. Berry is way more important. Houston, Hali, DJ, and Poe are all stars but, they ain't on Berry's level imo. None of those guys but Berry is the best at their position in the NFL.

[oldtimer 8,684]

They really don't switch them very much. It's really only once or twice a game. Houston really isn't very good in pass coverage. Even for a 3-4 OLB. He rarely drops into coverage period. Maybe part of that is because he has Berry behind him but, I think it's mostly because he can't cover. Tamba drops into coverage 4-5 times as much. Houston's good against the run but, he's not nealy as good as Tamba. 

 

I like Houston but, he's not as good as Tamba Hali yet imo.

 

 

No way, Berry is the one teams gameplan around. Berry is way more important. Houston, Hali, DJ, and Poe are all stars but, they ain't on Berry's level imo. None of those guys but Berry is the best at their position in the NFL.

 

 

Mongo will send you a Box of Candy for that one.. I see a Love affair on the horizon.

[mongo 92]

With the deal worked right you can still sign both Houston and Berry. 

 

My biggest issue is getting him into camp(mainly because missing time in training camp hurts the team). Granted he is under contract so he should be in camp, but everyone knows he deserves more money. Yes the savings is nice, but what does it really matter. Our team is pretty much set and we have plenty of money to extend both Houston and Berry. Maybe the process pisses Houston off and he ends up not wanting to sign here. We can tag him next year, but at that point he may say screw it and go to elsewhere after next year and that is not something I would be happy about. 

 

I just don't understand why this is taking so long. A Clay Matthews type of deal gets this done and isn't entirely out of the question for Houston. With that said if he is asking for more than that, then I can see why it hasn't. 

I agree with everything you've said here, except a holdout hurts the team.  Not in this day and age.  Houston will be fine, so long as he's kept in shape.  He knows the system.  His teammates know him.  NBD.

[mongo 92]

Houston still has something to prove imo. I am a huge UGA fan. I think it's awesome when the Chiefs get Dawgs players. I even have his jersey. However, lets be real about this. Here are the issues with Houston:

 

1. He's had drug problems in the past. He was dumb enough to fail a drug test at the combine. That's pretty dumb. We've been lucky and been able to pay him as a minimum risk over the past few years. What's he going to do when he gets paid? How is he going to handle that?

 

2. He's never played ROLB in college or in the pros. He's going against right tackles all the time. Not left tackles. How would he do against left tackles? Could he be Hali's replacement? Should he get paid like a ROLB? He's not playing the same position as Clay Mathews, Von Miller, or Aldon Smith. He's playing LOLB.

 

3. He's coming off an injury. They haven't seen him practice. Is he healed up?

 

I think Dorsey will compare him to LOLB Lamar Woodley. Woodley was a stud in Pittsburgh until he got his second contract. There are plenty of reasons not to sign Houston just yet imo.

Von Miller plays LOLB.  Matthews has played both.

 

I think your concerns are unfounded.  Warren Sapp had a hot sample at the combine too.  It is stupid, but I'm not gonna dismiss a 20 year old kid smoking pot as a problem drug user.  There are guys playing the game today getting away with same or worse, I'm sure.

 

It's gonna be fine.

[Mugsy 225]

Miller plays both but, mainly on the right. They listed him as the ROLB on the depth chart last year. Same with Mathews. Both rotated more than Houston but, technically they are both ROLBs.

[Calichief 3,016]

They really don't switch them very much. It's really only once or twice a game. Houston really isn't very good in pass coverage. Even for a 3-4 OLB. He rarely drops into coverage period. Maybe part of that is because he has Berry behind him but, I think it's mostly because he can't cover. Tamba drops into coverage 4-5 times as much. Houston's good against the run but, he's not nealy as good as Tamba.

 

I like Houston but, he's not as good as Tamba Hali yet imo.

 

 

No way, Berry is the one teams gameplan around. Berry is way more important. Houston, Hali, DJ, and Poe are all stars but, they ain't on Berry's level imo. None of those guys but Berry is the best at their position in the NFL.

When berry starts changing games I'll agree. If he were playing deeper and getting ed reed type opportunities id agree. Houston gets pressure all the time. He can cover and stop the run. Right now, Houston is the key. In the playoff game berry didn't Do shit.

[West 6,713]

I would agree with you that Houston is a Game Changer on Defense.....Berry has certainly flashed as well, but Houston has to be covered each and every play.  My defensive game changers in priority:

 

1. Houston

2. Poe

3. Berry

4. DJ

5. Tamba

 

 

Offense ( for fun)

 

1. Charles

2. Smith

3. Bowe

4. Thomas ( Prediction)

5. Kelce  ( Predicting a Solid Year for this Guy)

 

w

[mongo 92]

When berry starts changing games I'll agree. If he were playing deeper and getting ed reed type opportunities id agree. Houston gets pressure all the time. He can cover and stop the run. Right now, Houston is the key. In the playoff game berry didn't Do shit.

He does change games, just not in the way everyone expects.  The name Ed Reed always comes up and he simply isn't asked to do the same things.  Think Troy Polamalu.

 

Berry led the league among SS in sacks and was second in INT, two for TDs.  This while playing nickel and dime linebacker.  

 

What was he supposed to versus Indy, cover the whole field?  Throw the second half TD Al was unable to produce?  Oops, cheap shot.

 

I don't know if he's more impactful than Houston, but that's because pass rush is always key.  He's far better than Poe who hasn't even entered the A-list yet.

 

I know there are many who don't think he's worth the money.  Letting him go would be a terrible, terrible mistake.

[mongo 92]

1. Houston

2. Berry

3. DJ

4. Tamba

5. Poe

 

 

Offense

 

1. Charles

2. Charles

3. Charles  

4. Smith

5. Bowe

6. Colquitt

7. Succop (heavy sigh)

 

 

See above

[Mugsy 225]

He does change games, just not in the way everyone expects.  The name Ed Reed always comes up and he simply isn't asked to do the same things.  Think Troy Polamalu.

 

Berry led the league among SS in sacks and was second in INT, two for TDs.  This while playing nickel and dime linebacker.  

 

What was he supposed to versus Indy, cover the whole field?  Throw the second half TD Al was unable to produce?  Oops, cheap shot.

 

I don't know if he's more impactful than Houston, but that's because pass rush is always key.  He's far better than Poe who hasn't even entered the A-list yet.

 

I know there are many who don't think he's worth the money.  Letting him go would be a terrible, terrible mistake.

 

Exactly. Berry lines up all over the place. He has to be accounted for. If he's not, he can be a game wrecker.

 

Houston has never had more than 11 sacks in a season (last year). He probably would have had more last year but he got hurt. He's also always had Tamba playing across from him. Also, consider where he got his sacks last year. He got 3 against Jacksonville and 4.5 against Philadelphia going against a rookies in both games. He got one sack against Oakland, one against Tennesee, and one against Cleveland who have crappy RTs. He had a half a sack against Houston. His only other sack came in the playoff game against Indy. When I look at this, I only see 2.5 sacks that were against good competition. Now consider that 65% of his sacks came in two games against rookies and 78% of his sacks came against crappy RTs, it's pretty easy to see that he may be a little overhyped.

 

Now consider that Tennesee took a RT with the 11th pick (Lewan), Cleveland took at RT with the 35th pick (Bitonio), and the Raiders signed Austin Howard to play RT this past offseason.

 

Houston's production came against some pretty crappy players last year. He's not close to Tamba yet and he's no where near the player Berry is. I like the guy but I wouldn't over pay for him.

[Calichief 3,016]

He does change games, just not in the way everyone expects. The name Ed Reed always comes up and he simply isn't asked to do the same things. Think Troy Polamalu.

 

Berry led the league among SS in sacks and was second in INT, two for TDs. This while playing nickel and dime linebacker.

 

What was he supposed to versus Indy, cover the whole field? Throw the second half TD Al was unable to produce? Oops, cheap shot.

 

I don't know if he's more impactful than Houston, but that's because pass rush is always key. He's far better than Poe who hasn't even entered the A-list yet.

 

I know there are many who don't think he's worth the money. Letting him go would be a terrible, terrible mistake.

Mongo,

I agree. In their current positions, I think Houston is more impactful. If it came down to one or the other, I would keep berry.

[CWil 30]

Exactly. Berry lines up all over the place. He has to be accounted for. If he's not, he can be a game wrecker.

 

Houston has never had more than 11 sacks in a season (last year). He probably would have had more last year but he got hurt. He's also always had Tamba playing across from him. Also, consider where he got his sacks last year. He got 3 against Jacksonville and 4.5 against Philadelphia going against a rookies in both games. He got one sack against Oakland, one against Tennesee, and one against Cleveland who have crappy RTs. He had a half a sack against Houston. His only other sack came in the playoff game against Indy. When I look at this, I only see 2.5 sacks that were against good competition. Now consider that 65% of his sacks came in two games against rookies and 78% of his sacks came against crappy RTs, it's pretty easy to see that he may be a little overhyped.

 

Now consider that Tennesee took a RT with the 11th pick (Lewan), Cleveland took at RT with the 35th pick (Bitonio), and the Raiders signed Austin Howard to play RT this past offseason.

 

Houston's production came against some pretty crappy players last year. He's not close to Tamba yet and he's no where near the player Berry is. I like the guy but I wouldn't over pay for him.

Pass rushing isn't all about sacks.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/07/14/pof-pass-rushing-productivity/

 

Most Productive Edge Rushers

 

Rank Player Team Year Pass Rush Snaps Sacks Hits Hurries Total Pressure PRP

1 Brandon Graham PHI 2012 205 7 7 31 45 17.32

2 Von Miller DEN 2012 436 19 15 52 86 15.88

3 Jerry Hughes BUF 2013 305 11 9 39 59 15.41

4 Aldon Smith SF 2011 336 15 13 36 64 15.40

5 Robert Quinn SL 2013 477 19 21 51 91 15.30

6 Elvis Dumervil BAL 2013 319 10 11 40 61 15.13

7 Aldon Smith SF 2013 289 9 9 37 55 15.05

8 Trent Cole PHI 2011 355 11 12 44 67 14.93

9 Tamba Hali KC 2010 521 17 16 64 97 14.78

10 John Abraham ATL 2008 390 17 17 37 71 14.74

11 Charles Johnson CAR 2010 436 12 11 55 78 14.11

12 Dwight Freeney IND 2009 376 14 12 40 66 14.10

13 Justin Houston KC 2013 332 10 7 42 59 14.08

14 Cameron Wake MIA 2013 397 10 20 41 71 14.04

15 Antwan Barnes SD 2011 265 11 5 29 45 13.77

16 Jason Babin PHI 2011 401 18 12 37 67 13.65

17 James Harrison PIT 2011 235 8 9 23 40 13.62

18 Chris Long SL 2011 482 13 12 58 83 13.59

19 Michael Bennett SEA 2013 379 9 17 39 65 13.46

20 Ray Edwards MIN 2010 396 9 7 51 67 13.26

21 Travis LaBoy TEN 2007 221 6 9 22 37 13.24

22 Carlos Dunlap CIN 2011 278 5 13 29 47 13.13

[Guest Mugsy]

I agree it's not all about sacks but again, who did he go up against? Stats never tell the whole story. The fact that Hali is higher says quite a bit about him imo. He did go against some really good players.

 

Houston is a good player and I hav no problem re-signing him. I just don't believe he's proven to be elite just yet. He still has some things to prove imo.