FANATIC 852 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 From Arrowhead Addict Article...... Linebacker Under the team’s former defensive scheme, pass rushers Dee Ford and Justin Houston were considered linebackers. Because of that, you didn’t hear a lot of people talking about just how terrible the Chiefs linebackers were last season. However, if you take away the pass rush productivity of Ford and Houston and just look at the traditional linebacker play, terrible is about the only way you can describe the Chiefs play last season. The hope is that new defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo and his 4-3 base scheme will help K.C.’s linebackers bounce back after a rough 2018. The two players most in need of stepping up this season are Anthony Hitchens and Reggie Ragland. Both were bad last season against both the run and the pass. In fact, Hitchens was Pro Football Focus‘ worst rated linebacker last season ranking 92nd out of 92 eligible linebackers with an embarrassing 38.2 overall grade and an even worse 29.5 run defense grade that was also the worst of all starting linebackers last season. I could keep piling on, but the bottom line is both Hitchens and Ragland have to have better seasons in 2019 in order for the Chiefs to solidify their defense. FANATIC.....Veach has really missed on this group so far. Hitchens big bucks and simply sucks. I know ....new scheme...yet Hitchens was awful. NO reason to think his play will be good enough to support that contract or worthy of starting. I so hope I am wrong but these linebackers are not starter caliber. For me this is the year Veach either proves worthy or is sent packing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,025 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Lee is gonna ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, Calichief said: Lee is gonna ball Of course I hope you are correct! That would be one good linebacker and then not good backers. I have little faith in Hitchens and Ragland is complete crap. This position is the one that concerns me the most. I dont think scheme will improve the play of not talented players. As I said I hope I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,614 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Sutton had them playing scared. Hitchens did great in a 43 with Dallas and i think he bounces back. Ragland though was traded ri us because he did not fit the 43 in Cleveland so we will just have to wait and see. Wilson also came from 43 and Dallas. The other 2 in the group are DOD and Niemann. DOD seems the rush lb but csn he cover. Niemann covered a lot at Iowa with their LB 43. I think we have good depth and the competition will be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,210 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Gotta have trust that Spags knows how to use Hitchens and Wilson. Not sure how much Lee adds but DOD can contribute and Ragland never looked healthy last season. I think the LB play will be simpler and better this season. Nieman will make the team but after that it gets pretty thin for competition in TC. The linebackers shouldn't have to cover as much if the Chiefs have three safeties on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 32 minutes ago, jetlord said: Gotta have trust that Spags knows how to use Hitchens and Wilson. Not sure how much Lee adds but DOD can contribute and Ragland never looked healthy last season. I think the LB play will be simpler and better this season. Nieman will make the team but after that it gets pretty thin for competition in TC. The linebackers shouldn't have to cover as much if the Chiefs have three safeties on the field. Sure I agree....and yet Hitchens ranked the worst linebacker. Even in a bad system a good player should stand out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okiechief1 425 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 56 minutes ago, kkuenn said: Sutton had them playing scared. Hitchens did great in a 43 with Dallas and i think he bounces back. Ragland though was traded ri us because he did not fit the 43 in Cleveland so we will just have to wait and see. Wilson also came from 43 and Dallas. The other 2 in the group are DOD and Niemann. DOD seems the rush lb but csn he cover. Niemann covered a lot at Iowa with their LB 43. I think we have good depth and the competition will be good. Agree about Hitchens. He was a solid player in the 4-3 in Dallas. I think the change of scheme and coaches does him good. Ragland I’m hoping somebody anybody emerges and overtakes the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Calichief said: Lee is gonna ball I asked a Jets fan about Lee halfway expecting him to say something negative but instead he compared him to Demario Davis. A really good player! This could be a huge steal pickup by Veach who’s done a phenomenal one year reclamation of the defense in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, FANATIC said: Sure I agree....and yet Hitchens ranked the worst linebacker. Even in a bad system a good player should stand out. You don’t take an aggressive downhill physical player and make him read and react cover guy playing on his heels. Sutton ruined him last year. You will see a different player in this system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CranjisMcbasketball 781 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Personally I’ve give up hope for Ragland ever being good. Hitchens I am 90% done with, he has the first couple games of the season to change my mind but he will assuredly be cut following this season. I look for lee, odaniel, and Wilson to get most the reps by the end of the season with hitchens subbing in from time to time just to justify the contract. I can see Ragland not making the final roster in favor of taking a flyer on a rookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,614 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said: Personally I’ve give up hope for Ragland ever being good. Hitchens I am 90% done with, he has the first couple games of the season to change my mind but he will assuredly be cut following this season. I look for lee, odaniel, and Wilson to get most the reps by the end of the season with hitchens subbing in from time to time just to justify the contract. I can see Ragland not making the final roster in favor of taking a flyer on a rookie Out of the three you chose who is the thumper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 36 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: You don’t take an aggressive downhill physical player and make him read and react cover guy playing on his heels. Sutton ruined him last year. You will see a different player in this system. Yes maybe true....but he completely sucked. Many want to blame it all on Sutton. I put most of the blame on the guy that signed him. Veach knew what the scheme was and who the coordinator was. Gave Hitchens a huge contract. Good players still play good. Its football. They have played most of their lives. A better scheme may improve his play from terrible to not good. There is a reason these guys were cast offs. Im not rooting against them. Hope they completely turn it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CranjisMcbasketball 781 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, kkuenn said: Out of the three you chose who is the thumper? That is potentially a problem but when your true “thumpers” completely suck it’s better to just put good athletes on the field and hope for the best. also guys don’t rule out them trying to get someone like Juan thorn hill or matheu in the box and running 3 safeties just to get our best players on the field. I am still high on Jordan Lucas and would love to see all three playing at the same time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 39 minutes ago, FANATIC said: Yes maybe true....but he completely sucked. Many want to blame it all on Sutton. I put most of the blame on the guy that signed him. Veach knew what the scheme was and who the coordinator was. Gave Hitchens a huge contract. Good players still play good. Its football. They have played most of their lives. A better scheme may improve his play from terrible to not good. There is a reason these guys were cast offs. Im not rooting against them. Hope they completely turn it around. Veach is going to miss on players by the way. Castoffs? I’m not even sure what that means. I guess every free agent is a castoff. As for Hitchens, he was a good player in 2017. So I’m not sure your theory holds any water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 37 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: Veach is going to miss on players by the way. Castoffs? I’m not even sure what that means. I guess every free agent is a castoff. As for Hitchens, he was a good player in 2017. So I’m not sure your theory holds any water. Not a theory and not important that anyone agrees with me. Just an observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troyofoc 361 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Mloe68 said: You don’t take an aggressive downhill physical player and make him read and react cover guy playing on his heels. Sutton ruined him last year. You will see a different player in this system. Speaking of Sutton Don't know why I'm doing it to myself but watching the afc championship game on replay. 1st drive key 3rd and 7 Sutton calls ford to cover Edelman for an easy 1st down. Fucking makes me sick, is like a car accident shouldn't look but can't help myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Hitchens and Rags were good players in 2027. I have more hope for Hitch, but that is a big contact. He will have to really show up to stick after this year. As far as Rags, in 2017 he looks like a thumper that would fit well as a MLB in a 4-3. Even his coverage was better than advertised. Don’t know how he dropped off so much last here in the same defense. But he makes $12 an hour so he should at least be quality depth. He would have to really look bad at camp to get cut. I think Hitch lands at MLB and Rags is his depth. Lee looks like the odds on Will. DOD will land as his back up IMO. No matter how it shakes out, that will be the most interesting position group through camp and preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palangi 788 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 I think we will be fine. I think ragland gets cut or traded. SLB- Wilson, Neimann MLB- Hitchens, Davison/Hines WLB- Lee, DOD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhitter 1,426 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Mloe68 said: Veach is going to miss on players by the way. Castoffs? I’m not even sure what that means. I guess every free agent is a castoff. As for Hitchens, he was a good player in 2017. So I’m not sure your theory holds any water. Yeah. The general thought is if a bad player changes scenery and then plays much better for his new team then the old team, coach, scheme, fit, etc was not conducive to his skill set... he was not being coached up or used correctly and he is better because of the new coach, scheme, fit...blah. Conversely if a pretty good player goes to a new team and plays poorly...well he was just a bad player. Go figure.😕 Fuller was lauded as the best slot corner in the NFL when we traded Alex Smith and got him in the deal. Fans in Washington were livid. Last year Fuller was mediocre at best. Huge regression. Bad player?....or a victim of Sutton's rigid but mostly predictable scheme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, dhitter said: Yeah. The general thought is if a bad player changes scenery and then plays much better for his new team then the old team, coach, scheme, fit, etc was not conducive to his skill set... he was not being coached up or used correctly and he is better because of the new coach, scheme, fit...blah. Conversely if a pretty good player goes to a new team and plays poorly...well he was just a bad player. Go figure.😕 Fuller was lauded as the best slot corner in the NFL when we traded Alex Smith and got him in the deal. Fans in Washington were livid. Last year Fuller was mediocre at best. Huge regression. Bad player?....or a victim of Sutton's rigid but mostly predictable scheme? Yes and a pathetic cast of talent around him. Good players start trying to make up for the guy next to them. Likely they did not trust each other , the coach and the game plan. Yet Veach went out & got guys that were not a good fit with Sutton? Sutton sucks...no doubt. Yet the defense got worse than previous seasons. To me this is the season we see if Veach is a keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhitter 1,426 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, FANATIC said: Yes and a pathetic cast of talent around him. Good players start trying to make up for the guy next to them. Likely they did not trust each other v, the coach and the game plan. Perception is reality. I'm not saying you are wrong in that statement. But there were numerous reasons the Chiefs defense was not just bad....but historically bad. It goes beyond just not trusting each other. Nelson was so bad he got a great new contract with the Steelers. Ward was seen as "having played pretty well" in a limited role. Yet at the end of the season the Chiefs still looked pretty buffoonish on the back end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 46 minutes ago, Palangi said: I think we will be fine. I think ragland gets cut or traded. SLB- Wilson, Neimann MLB- Hitchens, Davison/Hines WLB- Lee, DOD It’s an average group overall but at least adding Lee and further development by DOD gives it more coverage ability. Scheme will make Hitchens formidable and hopefully Raglands knee is healthy this year. Wilson.a good system fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 23 minutes ago, FANATIC said: Yes and a pathetic cast of talent around him. Good players start trying to make up for the guy next to them. Likely they did not trust each other , the coach and the game plan. Yet Veach went out & got guys that were not a good fit with Sutton? Sutton sucks...no doubt. Yet the defense got worse than previous seasons. To me this is the season we see if Veach is a keeper. Two of the three players playing around him were Dee Ford and Justin Houston by the way. Two guys that just signed 115 million in contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 1 hour ago, FANATIC said: Not a theory and not important that anyone agrees with me. Just an observation. You are saying a player was horrible one season can only improve to not good. Even if that player was good in a superior scheme the year before. That makes zero sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 34 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: You are saying a player was horrible one season can only improve to not good. Even if that player was good in a superior scheme the year before. That makes zero sense. OH No Mr MOE-IT-ALL.......Sorry but Im not interested in participating in your endless debate on every topic. YOU WIN . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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