Chiefs Linebackers are ?

[Mloe68 1,521]

58 minutes ago, FANATIC said:

OH No Mr MOE-IT-ALL.......Sorry but Im not interested in participating in your endless debate on every topic. YOU WIN .

Happy to expose nonsense wherever I see it.  😂 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

16 hours ago, FANATIC said:

Yes maybe true....but he completely sucked.  Many want to blame it all on Sutton. I put most of the blame on the guy that signed him. Veach knew what the scheme was and who the coordinator was. Gave Hitchens a huge contract. Good players still play good. Its football. They have played most of their lives. A better scheme may improve his play from terrible to not good. There is a reason these guys were cast offs. Im not rooting against them. Hope they completely turn it around.

1. Would you say Marcus Peters was a good corner here? Outstanding at times? Well he sucked last season in St Louis. So no...good players don't always play good football.

2. Hitchens wasnt a castoff. The cowboys had Sean Lee, Jaylon Smith, and Leighton Vander Esch at linebacker. Would you have paid Hitchens in that scenario?

3. You said earlier there is no reason to believe he will be worthy of starting. Yes there absolutely is. Its because he has already started and played above average football for several seasons in a 4-3 in Dallas.

4. Yes Veach knew what the scheme was in Dallas and clearly had been drafting players that transitioned well to a 4-3 here as well. Did you ever think maybe he was thinking well ahead when giving out that contract.

5.. Brett Veach is absolutely killing it here as our GM. Killing it. We've gotten younger, deeper, more talented and less expensive at almost every position group since he has been here. We are in great cap shape, have won the division both years he's been GM, and we nearly made the SB in his second season as GM.

You alluding to the fact he ought to be on the hot seat is really strange man.  You've told me before that you don't have to like the guy and support every move he makes to like the team. That's very true. But this guys job security should not be in question at all. Not even 1%.

[FANATIC 852]

The idea that Veach knew Reid & Co would be switching to a 4-3 this season is not a fact. I dont see an NFL team wasting a full season of draft picks, rookie contracts & learning the wrong system. I dont see an NFL team wasting a full season on a DC they knew they were going to replace.

Reid wasted last season on Sutton. Now everyone has to learn a new system & new coaches. I think KC would have been an 8-8 team last year without Mahomes. If Veach drafted for a 4-3 and acquired free agents for a 4-3 the move to a 4-3 would have been made then. 

This season could be the best season ever in KC. If so I will give Veach all the credit he deserves. Until then the jury is still out on Veach...for me.

Looking forward to it!

[CranjisMcbasketball 781]

I personally believe they wanted spagnola last year but he decided to take a year off before returning to coaching. So yes I believe we wasted a year drafting and acquiring 4-3 players to use in a 3-4. It cost us a superbowl.

i believe our staff thought mahomes would need a year starting under his belt before being ready to win and this mistake coupled with sticking with alex smith an extra year cost us two prime superbowl window seasons.

it indurates me thinking about the defensive decisions made before those seasons, but i am very positive about what they did this offseason for the defense.

also i will always believe had mahomes started in the playoffs vs Tennessee we make a legit run that post season.

[DieHard 2,061]

 

It’s interesting that all the discussions about different positions, not much mention of Wilson at the Sam. Doesn’t seem to be much excitement about him, but not much talk of a position battle. 

Is everyone settle on him and what are the predictions for him?

 

[kkuenn 3,614]

5 minutes ago, DieHard said:

 

It’s interesting that all the discussions about different positions, not much mention of Wilson at the Sam. Doesn’t seem to be much excitement about him, but not much talk of a position battle. 

Is everyone settle on him and what are the predictions for him?

 

Well Mike will be Hitchens. Weak will be DOD and/Lee. Wilson can play the SAM but again dont sleep on Niemann. He was a do it all LB for Iowa and his 2nd year here now I am interested to see how he does. Switching back to 43 should be no problem for him and a few others like Hitchens.

[Mloe68 1,521]

1 hour ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

I personally believe they wanted spagnola last year but he decided to take a year off before returning to coaching. So yes I believe we wasted a year drafting and acquiring 4-3 players to use in a 3-4. It cost us a superbowl.

i believe our staff thought mahomes would need a year starting under his belt before being ready to win and this mistake coupled with sticking with alex smith an extra year cost us two prime superbowl window seasons.

it indurates me thinking about the defensive decisions made before those seasons, but i am very positive about what they did this offseason for the defense.

also i will always believe had mahomes started in the playoffs vs Tennessee we make a legit run that post season.

Agree completely and likewise Veach knew he had one more season being buried underneath the Houston and Berry contracts Dorsey left him before he could really convert defense in earnest.  And there will likely be 6 new starters from our core starting defense last year to prove it   10 of 11 from the core 2017 group.  

. 

[PAChiefsFan79 136]

23 hours ago, FANATIC said:

Sure I agree....and yet Hitchens ranked the worst linebacker. Even in a bad system a good player should stand out.

Not necessarily. Hitchens played quite well in Dallas in their 4-3. Playing in Sutton's system where Hitchens had to think more resulted in Hitchens play regressing. He was constantly thinking too much instead of just playing and reacting. A good player in the wrong scheme constantly results in players becoming busts or not working out.

[FANATIC 852]

4 hours ago, PAChiefsFan79 said:

Not necessarily. Hitchens played quite well in Dallas in their 4-3. Playing in Sutton's system where Hitchens had to think more resulted in Hitchens play regressing. He was constantly thinking too much instead of just playing and reacting. A good player in the wrong scheme constantly results in players becoming busts or not working out.

 In fact, Hitchens was Pro Football Focus‘ worst rated linebacker last season ranking 92nd out of 92 eligible linebackers with an embarrassing 38.2 overall grade and an even worse 29.5 run defense grade that was also the worst of all starting linebackers last season. 

Fantatic: I get some fall off but that is pathetic. Looks like he got the big bucks and stayed home. Must have been his twin brother playing. Of course I hope he becomes all world. Maybe that great Dallas D hid his shortcomings?

[sith13 1,746]

The system definitely dictates a player's performance. Wagner is the only one staying in Seattle with the rest shuffling all over the NFL but they keep on having a great unit. I think some of Hitchen's performance was a product of Cowboys scheme. Since we are getting closer to that with Spags I think there will be clear improvement, just don't know how much. Sutton had him playing in somewhat of a similar role but the switch to a new scheme isn't always seamless.

[DieHard 2,061]

Signing Hitch. A clear 4-3 LB. drafting Kpass and Speaks. Much better fit at 4-3 DE than 3-4 OLB. I could see the theory they were drafting for a 4-3. Expecting Spags last year. I don’t know that to be the case, but plausible.

Say what you want about Hitch and that signing Fan, but he has our way more quality snaps on the field than anyone on the team. I don’t think that can be argued. He will start and he will play well. The only question is at what position.

The defense sucking had very little to do with Hitch. He didn’t play his best, but don’t believe the PFF rating. They are in left field. Just know Hitch had 135 tackles last season playing a new position in a new defense. 135 lead the team and second place had 53 less tackles. 53.

[FANATIC 852]

10 minutes ago, DieHard said:

Signing Hitch. A clear 4-3 LB. drafting Kpass and Speaks. Much better fit at 4-3 DE than 3-4 OLB. I could see the theory they were drafting for a 4-3. Expecting Spags last year. I don’t know that to be the case, but plausible.

Say what you want about Hitch and that signing Fan, but he has our way more quality snaps on the field than anyone on the team. I don’t think that can be argued. He will start and he will play well. The only question is at what position.

The defense sucking had very little to do with Hitch. He didn’t play his best, but don’t believe the PFF rating. They are in left field. Just know Hitch had 135 tackles last season playing a new position in a new defense. 135 lead the team and second place had 53 less tackles. 53.

I am  Hoping You Are Correct !

[DieHard 2,061]

3 minutes ago, FANATIC said:

I am  Hoping You Are Correct !

Me too. Lol.

[PAChiefsFan79 136]

18 hours ago, FANATIC said:

 In fact, Hitchens was Pro Football Focus‘ worst rated linebacker last season ranking 92nd out of 92 eligible linebackers with an embarrassing 38.2 overall grade and an even worse 29.5 run defense grade that was also the worst of all starting linebackers last season. 

Fantatic: I get some fall off but that is pathetic. Looks like he got the big bucks and stayed home. Must have been his twin brother playing. Of course I hope he becomes all world. Maybe that great Dallas D hid his shortcomings?

I seen that he was 92 out of 92 eligible linebackers. 

 

"Maybe that great Dallas D hid his shortcomings?" That very well could be. Most NFL players need to play in a scheme that fits their strengths and limits their weaknesses. That's why many fans refer to free agency as fools gold sometimes because players you acquire based on past performance don't always live up to expected performance. Why? Usually there is a change in scheme when switching teams and that switch is enough to cause the weaknesses to become more prominent. Unless the player is an "all pro" they are going to be limited to certain schemes. You originally wrote "Even in a bad system a good player should stand out." My point is that is NOT always the case, and probably more common than one would think. The NFL has plenty of examples of this. We all know how confusing Sutton's defensive scheme was based on reports. Hell we witnessed Berry yelling at players on the field when they were out of position, in his few opportunities of playing in 2018. Out of place players results in players not being in a position to make a play. Couple that with the fact that players were slow to react to a play as it developed because they were constantly thinking too much... result was one of the worst defenses we've witnessed in KC. I'm not surprised Hitchens was a big part of the problem. He wasn't playing in the defense that demonstrated his strengths. I definitely expected more out of him and had much higher hopes, but such is the life of a NFL fan. Free agent acquisitions that don't/are not panning out. I will withhold my judgement on Hitchens until after this season when he is back to playing in a 4-3 defense and playing a strict gap system.

[liquidfriend 1,151]

On 7/20/2019 at 7:19 PM, DieHard said:

Hitchens and Rags were good players in 2027. I have more hope for Hitch, but that is a big contact. He will have to really show up to stick after this year. As far as Rags, in 2017 he looks like a thumper that would fit well as a MLB in a 4-3. Even his coverage was better than advertised. Don’t know how he dropped off so much last here in the same defense. But he makes $12 an hour so he should at least be quality depth. He would have to really look bad at camp to get cut. I think Hitch lands at MLB and Rags is his depth. Lee looks like the odds on Will. DOD will land as his back up IMO. 

No matter how it shakes out, that will be the most interesting position group through camp and preseason.

2027? I'm not sure if I am impressed more by the fact they are still on the roster or the fact that you have a Delorean 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Bah double 

[PAChiefsFan79 136]

3 hours ago, DieHard said:

but don’t believe the PFF rating. They are in left field. Just know Hitch had 135 tackles last season playing a new position in a new defense. 135 lead the team and second place had 53 less tackles. 53.

I wouldn't say PFF's system is perfect but honestly no currently known stat is perfect for team sports. That said, if he ranked 92 out of 92, there has to be some truth to their rating of him. You can't perform that bad as an individual without having tape to back it up. Also, 135 tackles is a hell of a lot, BUT the sheer number of tackles doesn't mean he was playing well. Hell, he could have had the same number of tackles on the season, but if a higher percentage of them were closer to the line of scrimmage than maybe his ranking would be higher. Making a tackle 7 yards down the field for a LB is not good business. He's probably not in position to make a play sooner. 

[DieHard 2,061]

50 minutes ago, PAChiefsFan79 said:

I wouldn't say PFF's system is perfect but honestly no currently known stat is perfect for team sports. That said, if he ranked 92 out of 92, there has to be some truth to their rating of him. You can't perform that bad as an individual without having tape to back it up. Also, 135 tackles is a hell of a lot, BUT the sheer number of tackles doesn't mean he was playing well. Hell, he could have had the same number of tackles on the season, but if a higher percentage of them were closer to the line of scrimmage than maybe his ranking would be higher. Making a tackle 7 yards down the field for a LB is not good business. He's probably not in position to make a play sooner. 

I agree that a lot of tackles doesn’t mean you played well. And I don’t think he did play well. But, I will say that when you almost double the number of tackle of any player on the team, it’s maybe fair to say there were a lot of people not doing their job which makes it really hard to do yours. How much worse would we have been without his 135 tackles? I don’t know. But I think he is much better than what we saw.

[Thegoatee 1,789]

Holy cow... I thought Hitchens looked scared, passive, and terrible but being ranked dead last means the eye test was accurate.

To finish the sentence on the subject: they are on notice. Improve or get dumped. I still don’t care how many sacks Ford got. I am glad his one trick pony game is gone.

[FANATIC 852]

20 minutes ago, Thegoatee said:

Holy cow... I thought Hitchens looked scared, passive, and terrible but being ranked dead last means the eye test was accurate.

To finish the sentence on the subject: they are on notice. Improve or get dumped. I still don’t care how many sacks Ford got. I am glad his one trick pony game is gone.

Exactly 

[PAChiefsFan79 136]

6 hours ago, DieHard said:

I agree that a lot of tackles doesn’t mean you played well. And I don’t think he did play well. But, I will say that when you almost double the number of tackle of any player on the team, it’s maybe fair to say there were a lot of people not doing their job which makes it really hard to do yours. How much worse would we have been without his 135 tackles? I don’t know. But I think he is much better than what we saw.

Very good point. I agree he is better than what we saw.

[Chiefswinitall 60]

Teicher today said LBer spots are all open except for Hitchens

[liquidfriend 1,151]

I think Hitchens spot is in jeopardy too.  He's gotta show something significant this year or he'll be cut in favor of Lee.

[Mloe68 1,521]

3 hours ago, Thegoatee said:

Holy cow... I thought Hitchens looked scared, passive, and terrible but being ranked dead last means the eye test was accurate.

To finish the sentence on the subject: they are on notice. Improve or get dumped. I still don’t care how many sacks Ford got. I am glad his one trick pony game is gone.

Go watch the goal line plays vs the Pats in the AFC Title game and you see Hitchens frozen on his heels being actually hit by the RB. Then go watch short yardage plays when he was in Dallas. You saw one of the most physical hard hitting linebackers in football. You’d swear there’s  almost no way that’s the same guy.   

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

42 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

I think Hitchens spot is in jeopardy too.  He's gotta show something significant this year or he'll be cut in favor of Lee.

With a 17.7 million dollar dead cap number? I dont think so. He may get benched, but hes not getting cut when they are upside down in his contract like that. His dead money is over 8 million dollars more than his 2019 cap hit.