PAChiefsFan79 136 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 5 hours ago, FANATIC said: Agree. Trade him after this season. You made the replacement move with Hardman. Hope Hardman pans out but to say he is Hill's replacement without ever playing a snap in the NFL is a BIT hopeful. Hill has played at an elite level with game manager Alex Smith and cannon for an arm Mahomes. It would be awesome if Hardman is 2/3's of what Hill is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 34 minutes ago, PAChiefsFan79 said: Hope Hardman pans out but to say he is Hill's replacement without ever playing a snap in the NFL is a BIT hopeful. Hill has played at an elite level with game manager Alex Smith and cannon for an arm Mahomes. It would be awesome if Hardman is 2/3's of what Hill is. It does say after this season, Chiefs should know what Hardman can do by then. Plus can KC get a couple high picks? Maybe a first & second for Hill vs 20 million per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC Warpaint 3,252 Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 6 hours ago, FANATIC said: According to Sam Mellinger of the Kansas City Star, Chiefs DL Chris Jones "embodies all the familiar signs" of a training camp holdout. He and the Chiefs are reportedly far apart in contract talks—Jones is looking for a deal comparable to Frank Clark's, which included $63.5 million in guarantees, while Kansas City prefers something in the $45-50 million range. Jones, who is due a modest $1.19 million in the final year of his rookie deal, is hoping to cash in on the heels of his breakout 2018, a campaign that included a career-best 15.5 sacks. Unfortunately for Jones, the Chiefs also need to set aside funds for Patrick Mahomes (who is eligible for an extension next offseason) and contract-year wideout Tyreek Hill. To become a free agent next offseason, the 2016 second-rounder must report to camp by early August. SOURCE: Kansas City Star Home Town Discount is a MYTH....fanatic I will be rooting for Clark to have a monster KC career....that said...trading a 1st round pick and then giving him the huge contract may have put Jones in hold out mode. Hard to keep everyone. The message is mixed. Free agent gets big contract in KC while the home town guys are left to wonder. Heard Adam Tiecher on ESPN Radio this afternoon explain that Jones has no leverage at this time, if he holds out and misses over 30 days then he loses an accrued year so he is set back even more. by not showing up Jones is going to cost himself more than money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NChiefsCorner 496 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Atlanta Falcons Grady Jarrett signed a 4 year deal worth 68 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,614 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 hour ago, NChiefsCorner said: Atlanta Falcons Grady Jarrett signed a 4 year deal worth 68 million. This is what we should use for his base 70 to 80 million with a little kore guaranteed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 hour ago, KC Warpaint said: Heard Adam Tiecher on ESPN Radio this afternoon explain that Jones has no leverage at this time, if he holds out and misses over 30 days then he loses an accrued year so he is set back even more. by not showing up Jones is going to cost himself more than money To be specific, 30 days before the opener in Jacksonville, Jones has to report or lose the accrued season needed to get him free agency eligible. It’s clearly in his best interest not to report and potentially get himself hurt before that. But he will almost certainly report in a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlord 10,210 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Actually, I'm pretty interested in seeing Saunders getting some time at TC. That's not to say he can play like Jones, but it will be fun to know if he can translate his freakish athleticism into good line play. One of the most interesting draft choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troyofoc 361 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, jetlord said: Actually, I'm pretty interested in seeing Saunders getting some time at TC. That's not to say he can play like Jones, but it will be fun to know if he can translate his freakish athleticism into good line play. One of the most interesting draft choices. I want Jones in camp but that is definitely a positive out of this situation, to get Saunders more pt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, Troyofoc said: I want Jones in camp but that is definitely a positive out of this situation, to get Saunders more pt. Agree....I think KC needs to make a statement....hold out & no long term deals. Do it now and this BS will be less likely in the future. How many other NFL guys in the same contract position are doing this? If he holds out he gets tagged next year. Maybe traded maybe not. KC holds the cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC Warpaint 3,252 Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Mloe68 said: To be specific, 30 days before the opener in Jacksonville, Jones has to report or lose the accrued season needed to get him free agency eligible. It’s clearly in his best interest not to report and potentially get himself hurt before that. But he will almost certainly report in a few weeks. thanks for clearing that up, i caught the interview in the middle so i was not sure about the 30 days part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 hour ago, FANATIC said: Agree....I think KC needs to make a statement....hold out & no long term deals. Do it now and this BS will be less likely in the future. How many other NFL guys in the same contract position are doing this? If he holds out he gets tagged next year. Maybe traded maybe not. KC holds the cards. This is business as usual for good players in the contract year especially of their first contract. Last year Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack, Earl Thomas and LeVeon Bell. This year guys like Jones, Bobby Wagner, Melvin Ingram, Ezekiel Elliott and Yannick Ngakoue. Can’t blame the first contract guys one bit either. I have no sympathy for the second contract guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WichitaZRide 321 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 23 hours ago, FANATIC said: Jones still needs to prove he is more than a one year guy on a very bad defense. Cracks me up....some keep saying the defense was all about Sutton vs a lack of talent too. Somebody allowed the run at will stats other teams put up. See what he does this year first. Hills future is likely tied to the progress Hardman makes or does not make. I think Watkins is gone after this year. I would not extend either Jones or Hill this season. The idea of hometown discounts is a myth. This season IS KC best opportunity to go the distance. KC needs to be in all in NOW MODE. WHATEVER NOW TAKES...DO IT NOW. Win while Mahomes is still on his rookie deal. THE FUTURE HAS ARRIVED. Here’s the catch 22.... we all say this now... Then he goes off and has a career year, so we will complain about how Veach screwed up and didn’t lock him down for cheaper... Fickle, we sports fans are...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, WichitaZRide said: Here’s the catch 22.... we all say this now... Then he goes off and has a career year, so we will complain about how Veach screwed up and didn’t lock him down for cheaper... Fickle, we sports fans are...lol So true. I dont see these guys signing on the cheap. A guy holding out only cares about himself not the team or fans. If you let him get away with that you set up other guys to do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calichief 3,025 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Cop out- they are both important Hill has no equal in the NFL INTERIOR pressure is rare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Jones played similar to 4-3 in sub packages but wasn't expected to stop the run, I would like to see him actually play in the new system before giving him the huge contract and it doesn't look like paying him now will save us any money as he's reportedly looking for something around the top. In Hill's situation he's one incident away from suspension and possible jail time, which is way too risky to pay him a big contract IMO. They were already shopping him during the combine so I would probably tag and trade him next year. Entering a season with two guys that want big money and one tag to play with is risky in which case I would give Jones the priority this season if they are concerned with that scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 10 hours ago, FANATIC said: So true. I dont see these guys signing on the cheap. A guy holding out only cares about himself not the team or fans. If you let him get away with that you set up other guys to do the same thing. Disagree with that mindset. It's a business. Guys should be trying to maximize their value, especially when they have some leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 6 hours ago, sith13 said: Jones played similar to 4-3 in sub packages but wasn't expected to stop the run, I would like to see him actually play in the new system before giving him the huge contract and it doesn't look like paying him now will save us any money as he's reportedly looking for something around the top. In Hill's situation he's one incident away from suspension and possible jail time, which is way too risky to pay him a big contract IMO. They were already shopping him during the combine so I would probably tag and trade him next year. Entering a season with two guys that want big money and one tag to play with is risky in which case I would give Jones the priority this season if they are concerned with that scenario. That's why I think Tyreek will be priority 1. I think he'll be easier to sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 hour ago, xen said: That's why I think Tyreek will be priority 1. I think he'll be easier to sign. I'm not sure if they want to sign him but if they do Hill is the more proven commodity as a pure player, that's why we all expected him to be signed this year and Jones next year. At this point I don't know what they want about him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAChiefsFan79 136 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 19 hours ago, FANATIC said: It does say after this season, Chiefs should know what Hardman can do by then. Plus can KC get a couple high picks? Maybe a first & second for Hill vs 20 million per year. It does say after this season...but my thought is that this is an opinion based on no evidence that we have as of now. If the Chiefs traded Hill, I think the draft capital you put out there would be pretty accurate. What the Chiefs could turn that into would be pretty sweet, but we've also all been a little skeptical of some of Veach's move...so would that make you think twice about trading away a known player versus an unknown player? Grass isn't always greener on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 5 hours ago, xen said: Disagree with that mindset. It's a business. Guys should be trying to maximize their value, especially when they have some leverage. Yep. These guys had no control over which team they played for or basically how much they signed for in that initial contract because of the CBA and its rookie pool. So as they step up to what will be the biggest payday and biggest negotiation of their life, why risk an injury before you have too according to the same CBA. And that's August 6th. If your name isn't Baker Mayfield, you see the players support each other on these hold outs. Notion the team should be more important than real life and your family doesn't make much sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 hour ago, PAChiefsFan79 said: It does say after this season...but my thought is that this is an opinion based on no evidence that we have as of now. If the Chiefs traded Hill, I think the draft capital you put out there would be pretty accurate. What the Chiefs could turn that into would be pretty sweet, but we've also all been a little skeptical of some of Veach's move...so would that make you think twice about trading away a known player versus an unknown player? Grass isn't always greener on the other side. I think with Hill it all comes down to Clark Hunt. Is he willing to spend big guaranteed money that it will likely take to get that deal done. If so, they need to do it sooner rather than later because you can't trade both Hill and Jones after the season. Gotta get one signed so that the option is available for the other. I personally believe they really want both. But there's certainly logic in thinking we've already invested heavily on the dline and want to avoid the mistakes that Dorsey made. These two guys are SO fricking young though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,614 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 4 hours ago, sith13 said: I'm not sure if they want to sign him but if they do Hill is the more proven commodity as a pure player, that's why we all expected him to be signed this year and Jones next year. At this point I don't know what they want about him though. Sign Hill, tag Jones for 2 more years after this season costing us 42 million for 3 years if he does not sign. This would allow is to get a Fuller extension too hopefully. Jones then could be either extended or play another 3 years with trading him a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mloe68 1,521 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 On 7/21/2019 at 5:04 PM, FANATIC said: It does say after this season, Chiefs should know what Hardman can do by then. Plus can KC get a couple high picks? Maybe a first & second for Hill vs 20 million per year. They cannot trade both Hill and Jones after the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANATIC 852 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 53 minutes ago, Mloe68 said: They cannot trade both Hill and Jones after the season. 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thegoatee 1,789 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Sign Hill if he is discounted compared to market potential because of character risk. Jones needs to prove it in a new scheme. If either shows signs of injury or holdout, you focus on the other. Hill was important in a historic offense. Jones was a lone bright spot on a historically bad defense. We obviously cannot get much worse without Jones. We probably don’t get much better without Hill. Thus Hill is probably more valuable, despite character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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