Keith Reasor Achilles tear

[xen 1,010,220]

 

[Mloe68 1,521]

Razor thin cornerback group just got even more so (even though he was probably no better than 50/50 to make the roster). D Montre Wade has seemingly come out of nowhere though and had an INT of the MVP today. 

[Thegoatee 1,780]

Tough for the AAF standout. Probably sinks his career.

[Troyofoc 361]

S.o.b

[xen 1,010,220]

24 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

Razor thin cornerback group just got even more so (even though he was probably no better than 50/50 to make the roster). D Montre Wade has seemingly come out of nowhere though and had an INT of the MVP today. 

yeah he should have made the roster last year.  was that close.

[Mloe68 1,521]

5 minutes ago, xen said:

yeah he should have made the roster last year.  was that close.

I’m assuming Reasor was the 6th corner on the depth chart behind Fuller, Ward, Breeland, Wade and Smith?

[xen 1,010,220]

8 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

I’m assuming Reasor was the 6th corner on the depth chart behind Fuller, Ward, Breeland, Wade and Smith?

about there i would think.  team seems to be high on Wade.  almost made the team last year and has so far been the first guy off the bench and now the one subbing for Breeland.  We shall see.

[sith13 1,746]

Yet another Chiefs DB with a season ending injury during TC. I hope he can bounce back, and in the meantime I guess Veach was already looking to add as many DBs to the camp roster as possible. 

[reesebobby 5,662]

Sucks for him.  These guys work their asses off for the opportunity and it can be so fleeting. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

4 hours ago, xen said:

yeah he should have made the roster last year.  was that close.

IIRC, he would have last year if it weren't for an injury. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

I don't think our trainers are teaching these guys how to stretch their calves before practice well enough. We shouldn't get these achilles tears as often as we do. I've watched them before games, and they are not leaning forward enough, and some of them seem to be bouncing which tightens up the calf muscles instead of loosening them.  These guys are not being trained in optimal stretching in my opinion. They shouldn't even go out on the field until they have done their stretches correctly and repeated it three times.  I've seen enough Eric Berry's and Derrick Johnson's to last a lifetime. Other teams do not seem to get this many achilles tears.

[DieHard 2,061]

It is strange we seem to have so many Achilles. Need some down dog out there. Namaste.

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, Fmbl2187 said:

I don't think our trainers are teaching these guys how to stretch their calves before practice well enough. We shouldn't get these achilles tears as often as we do. I've watched them before games, and they are not leaning forward enough, and some of them seem to be bouncing which tightens up the calf muscles instead of loosening them.  These guys are not being trained in optimal stretching in my opinion. They shouldn't even go out on the field until they have done their stretches correctly and repeated it three times.  I've seen enough Eric Berry's and Derrick Johnson's to last a lifetime. Other teams do not seem to get this many achilles tears.

Achilles injuries have been on the rise for years.  We've also known the cause for years; athletes are bigger and stronger thanks to modern exercise techniques but tendons and ligaments stay the same.   

It's not our stretching, regardless of what us idiot fans think.  It's pretty common over the whole of the nfl, we're just not paying attention cause it's not our guys.

 

Here's some info:

Epidemiology and Outcomes of Achilles Tendon Ruptures in the National Football League
Selene Parekh, MD,MBA, Jay Shah, MBA

Category: Ankle,Sports

Keywords: Achilles Tendon Rupture, National Football League, Return to Play, Performance

Introduction/Purpose: While much less common than ankle sprains and other sports injuries, Achilles tendon ruptures have
represented unexpected and potentially career-altering injuries for professional football athletes in the National Football League
(NFL). Over the past decade, the technique for surgical repair of the ruptured Achilles tendon has evolved. Mini-open and
percutaneous techniques have become more common, allowing for the minimization of wound complications and expediting the
rehabilitation of athletes. Therefore, the objectives of this study were to update the epidemiology of Achilles tendon ruptures in
the NFL, and to analyze how recovery and post-injury performance of professional football players with this injury have
progressed in the last two decades.

Methods: Several online sources including NFL news and injury reports, player registries, and player statistic databases were
cross-referenced to conduct a retrospective identification of all NFL players sustaining complete Achilles tendon ruptures during
the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. Yearly player performance statistics were also obtained and recorded for both offensive and 
defensive players. A power rating formula and “approximate value” algorithm, commonly used to evaluate player production, were
borrowed to calculate yearly Offensive and Defensive performance metrics for each injured player. These calculated measurements
were used to quantify both offensive and defensive player performance up to 3 seasons before and after their respective 
Achilles tendon rupture injuries, allowing for each player to serve as his own control.

Results: 78 Achilles tendon ruptures were identified in professional football players during the 2010-2015 NFL seasons. 58% of
these injuries occurred during the preseason. Of those that suffered an Achilles tendon rupture, 26% did not ever return to play
in the NFL. Players who did return to play in the NFL took an average of 9 months to recover after the date of injury. Across all
positions, there was a net decrease in power ratings by 22% and a net decrease in approximate value by 23% over 3 years
following player return after Achilles tendon rupture. Across all positions, running backs saw the biggest decrease in production
with a 78% decrease over 3 years post-injury in both power ratings and approximate value.

Conclusion: While the incidence of Achilles tendon ruptures in NFL players, especially in the preseason, has increased
substantially, more players are returning to play after injury and with better post-injury performance as compared to the previous
two decades. These injuries should still be considered potentially career-altering as 26% of players never return to play after
Achilles tendon ruptures and there is still a net decrease in power-ratings by 22% for those who do return. However, these
numbers optimistically suggest that advancements in treatment protocol and rehabilitation are resulting in faster recovery and improved performance after Achilles tendon ruptures in NFL players.

[oldtimer 8,686]

I'm sure Bil will  tell you that study is faulty

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

58 minutes ago, xen said:

Achilles injuries have been on the rise for years.  We've also known the cause for years; athletes are bigger and stronger thanks to modern exercise techniques but tendons and ligaments stay the same.   

 

Despite what OT would prefer to think, I believe it is an excellent and informative article.  But the data in no way address the cause of the injuries.  It presents it as a blanket statement that that size and strength of the players  it is THE known cause. The data presented address outcomes and treatment and the statistics regarding that.  It makes sense that increasing muscle strength and size of players could be a factor, but that is not KNOWN, and there is not any reference you have given citing support for that as being "known for years" as the article claims.  It is pure speculation. The actual article is about epidemiology and outcomes, which is clear from the title.

Proper stretching, by definition, allows lengthening of muscle fibers, because that is what "stretching" is.  The tendons DON'T stretch in any appreciable way. If a muscle will not give and lengthen upon stress, then there will be more pull on the attachment to the bone of the muscle's tendon.    I will continue to believe that a lack of proper stretching is a major cause.  Not the only cause, but a major one. Here is one small reference  that actually addresses prevention and what excercizes accomplishes that.   https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/stretch-achilles-tendon

Real information would come from a peer reviewed journal from the fields of physical therapy and preventive methods in sports injuries.  Possibly an article that shows a footnote number for a cited reference for each statement.

The review board that published that article should have edited out the statement that you quoted.  Xen, it is good form to paste an article with an actual source, not just a title and two search terms, "ankle and sports"  What is that actual journal?  What data show a direct numerical correlation of size of the player with the incidence of achilles tears?  I am not claiming to be 100% correct, only that it is multifactorial. What has actually NOT kept pace with the size and strength of players, is the stretching preparation of these stronger players prior to competition. It remains a relic of an earlier time.  We can get the greatest surgeons in the world using the latest techniques to repair injuries after the fact.  But just like the field of preventive medicine in general, the preventive aspects of this in NFL football is woefully inadequate and not up to date.

[Mloe68 1,521]

2 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

I don't think our trainers are teaching these guys how to stretch their calves before practice well enough. We shouldn't get these achilles tears as often as we do. I've watched them before games, and they are not leaning forward enough, and some of them seem to be bouncing which tightens up the calf muscles instead of loosening them.  These guys are not being trained in optimal stretching in my opinion. They shouldn't even go out on the field until they have done their stretches correctly and repeated it three times.  I've seen enough Eric Berry's and Derrick Johnson's to last a lifetime. Other teams do not seem to get this many achilles tears.

 Seriously go look at the credentials of our strength and conditioning coaches and then try and tell me they don’t know basic stretching.  Heck Rubin is in the Strength and Conditioning Hall of Fame for goodness sakes. You really think “lean forward more” solves the problem? 😂  You shouldn’t be doing any static stretching before you are warmed up anyway.  

These are world class athletes operating at a level you or I cannot even fathom.  Web MD is for amateur weekend warriors. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

15 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

 Seriously go look at the credentials of our strength and conditioning coaches and then try and tell me they don’t know basic stretching.  Heck Rubin is in the Strength and Conditioning Hall of Fame for goodness sakes. You really think “lean forward more” solves the problem? 😂  You shouldn’t be doing any static stretching before you are warmed up anyway.  

These are world class athletes operating at a level you or I cannot even fathom.  Web MD is for amateur weekend warriors. 

 

15 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

 Seriously go look at the credentials of our strength and conditioning coaches and then try and tell me they don’t know basic stretching.  Heck Rubin is in the Strength and Conditioning Hall of Fame for goodness sakes. You really think “lean forward more” solves the problem? 😂  You shouldn’t be doing any static stretching before you are warmed up anyway.  

These are world class athletes operating at a level you or I cannot even fathom.  Web MD is for amateur weekend warriors. 

I don't disagree with that.  But is the expert out on the field watching each player before games to ensure that they do what they are supposed to be doing?  I doubt it.  You cannot watch that on TV.  You have to be in your seat watching each particular player in the 30 minutes or so before kickoff.  I don't care really how expert the trainers are.  They have to watch the players actually do those things. I definitely admit I am no expert in sports preventive medicine.  Not at all. I am only stating what I have seen with my eyes and what I have learned in physical therapy after my own injuries. No one should take my word for it.  Just go to a game and watch the players beforehand.  I have seen nothing other than the brief stretches of calves, hamstrings, quadricepts that have been done for the last six decades.

[NChiefsCorner 496]

3 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

 

I don't disagree with that.  But is the expert out on the field watching each player before games to ensure that they do what they are supposed to be doing?  I doubt it.

I disagree, the players don't need to lean forward, they need to lean to the right.😉

[xen 1,010,220]

2 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Despite what OT would prefer to think, I believe it is an excellent and informative article.  But the data in no way address the cause of the injuries.  It presents it as a blanket statement that it is THE known cause. The data presented address outcomes and treatment and the statistics of that.  It makes sense that increasing muscle strength and size of players could be a factor, but that is not KNOWN, and there is not any reference you have given citing support for that as being "known for years" as the article claims.  It is pure speculation. The actual article is about epidemiology and outcomes, which is clear from the title.

Proper stretching, by definition, allows lengthening of muscle fibers, because that is what "stretching" is.  The tendons DON'T stretch in any appreciable way.  I will continue to believe that proper stretching is a major cause.  Here is a resource that actually supports that.   https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/stretch-achilles-tendon

lol cause NFL pro athletes have the same strain on their tendons as Sally Yoga-Pants.  Riiiiiigggghhhhtttt...

Ok Bil you win.  This information hasn't been out there for years and accessible by quick google searches.... oh wait...

"Compared to the general population, athletes in the National Football League (NFL) are at increased risk for injury because the game involves explosive acceleration and sudden changes in direction."

https://lermagazine.com/article/return-to-football-after-achilles-tendon-rupture

 

 

"So why do pro athletes get Achilles ruptures? Regardless of how well conditioned you are, how much you warmed up, or how forgiving your playing surface is, certain movements can lead to ruptures.

Stressing a tendon that's already stretched is one of those movements. Think of Foster standing at the line of scrimmage. His weight is slightly forward, so his ankles are bent (the Achilles is stretched). He accelerates suddenly at the snap, and then hits the ground as his Achilles ruptures. Certain sports tend to see higher incidence of Achilles rupture - tennis, basketball, football, gymnastics - all sports that incorporate sudden, rapid movements.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/nfl-achilles-rupture-tear-steve-smith-arian-foster-cameron-wake-injuries/1a5bxld2mzwe41x9umf0lq1d6h

[Mloe68 1,521]

16 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

 

I don't disagree with that.  But is the expert out on the field watching each player before games to ensure that they do what they are supposed to be doing?  I doubt it.  You cannot watch that on TV.  You have to be in your seat watching each particular player in the 30 minutes or so before kickoff.  I don't care really how expert the trainers are.  They have to watch the players actually do those things. I definitely admit I am no expert in sports preventive medicine.  Not at all. I am only stating what I have seen with my eyes and what I have learned in physical therapy after my own injuries. No one should take my word for it.  Just go to a game and watch the players beforehand.  I have seen nothing other than the brief stretches of calves, hamstrings, quadricepts that have been done for the last six decades.

I really think Zen and that study have hit the nail on the head. Consider Keith Reasor went to college at 5"10 147 pounds. Today he's 5"10 190 pounds. That means he gained almost a third of his natural body weight without gaining any height.  Also consider Reasor tore his ACL his senior year at Florida Atlantic where he was already at 190. And then after the surgery came back in time for the combine where he was informed he had torn the ACL again without even knowing it.  So in the last 3 years he's had two torn ACL's, a quadricep injury that resulted in his medical buyout last year and now a torn ACL. What's more likely. A lack of stretching or a playing weight that's too stressful for his joints?

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

1 hour ago, xen said:

lol cause NFL pro athletes have the same strain on their tendons as Sally Yoga-Pants.  Riiiiiigggghhhhtttt...

Ok Bil you win.  This information hasn't been out there for years and accessible by quick google searches.... oh wait...

"Compared to the general population, athletes in the National Football League (NFL) are at increased risk for injury because the game involves explosive acceleration and sudden changes in direction."

https://lermagazine.com/article/return-to-football-after-achilles-tendon-rupture

 

 

"So why do pro athletes get Achilles ruptures? Regardless of how well conditioned you are, how much you warmed up, or how forgiving your playing surface is, certain movements can lead to ruptures.

Stressing a tendon that's already stretched is one of those movements. Think of Foster standing at the line of scrimmage. His weight is slightly forward, so his ankles are bent (the Achilles is stretched). He accelerates suddenly at the snap, and then hits the ground as his Achilles ruptures. Certain sports tend to see higher incidence of Achilles rupture - tennis, basketball, football, gymnastics - all sports that incorporate sudden, rapid movements.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/nfl-achilles-rupture-tear-steve-smith-arian-foster-cameron-wake-injuries/1a5bxld2mzwe41x9umf0lq1d6h

So who is arguing with any of that?  All the more reason to stretch the muscles as much as possible prior to using them at that extreme level.  I don't know what the big deal is or why everyone seems so compelled to argue agains that.  Is it because I am me?  Or am I just "Sally Yoga Pants."  Surely my point is not that ridiculous.    But if anyone chooses to think it is, then be my guest.

[xen 1,010,220]

38 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

So who is arguing with any of that?  All the more reason to stretch the muscles as much as possible prior to using them at that extreme level.  I don't know what the big deal is or why everyone seems so compelled to argue agains that.  Is it because I am me?  Or am I just "Sally Yoga Pants."  Surely my point is not that ridiculous.    But if anyone chooses to think it is, then be my guest.

You are suggesting that a professional organization that invests literally hundreds of millions of dollars in the athletes, plus more in professional services for specialized doctors and trainers, whose sole purpose is to compete at the highest level, doesn't know how players should stretch properly.

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

This sucks, i was looking for this guy to be a surprise starter. And yet again another Achilles injury overseen by our training staff that should have been overhauled years ago. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

1 minute ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

This sucks, i was looking for this guy to be a surprise starter. And yet again another Achilles injury overseen by our training staff that should have been overhauled years ago. 

He had a decent chance to make the roster but he was about 6th on the depth chart. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

31 minutes ago, xen said:

You are suggesting that a professional organization that invests literally hundreds of millions of dollars in the athletes, plus more in professional services for specialized doctors and trainers, whose sole purpose is to compete at the highest level, doesn't know how players should stretch properly.

It seems preposterous, doesn't it?

The reason it seems preposterous is because it is, Xen.  My point all along is not that these organizations do not have all the knowledge at their command, but that it is merely not implemented at the field level before each game as completely as the money that has been spent would suggest that it should be.  The expert trainers and physicians know what to do and why.  The athletes have been instructed.  But it seems no one is actually watching the athletes doing as they are instructed prior to each game. That is the long and short of it.  The experts are not the ones watching them on the field prepare in the moments before a game.  They are too busy wallowing in their expertise and their earnings to bother with such a task on the field. In fact, injuries and their resulting altered contracts in a strange way are their bread and butter.  Think about it. The organizations, themselves, do not suffer at all financially, only the teammates and the fans. Money is what talks.