So Tyreek Hill wants big money. Well. Does he deserve it?

[Chiefswinitall 60]

Just remember Dwayne Bowe.   

Players never live up to big contracts.

 

[qnet 1,158]

If he can get his personal life straight, and have no issues he's 1000 percent worth it to me. Bowe was a solid receiver, a little better than what the Chiefs had in the DV regime, he just didn't work at it enough IMO. 

Tyreek Hill is on another level IMO, has football intelligence and works hard from what I've seen.

[Chiefmanzada 466]

You can't compare a stoner to a cheetah unless it's "cheetos" 

[moons314 2,463]

He’s a risky long term sign because speed is his best asset.  If he loses a step or two, he becomes an average receiver worth probably 2-3 million a year. He’s not a big body that’s going to transition to a possession receiver when his speed goes. I just don’t think he’s a guy that’s going to have a 10-12 year nfl career.  My opinion is, I’d rather pay a little more per year but with a shorter contract to have some back end protection. I’m not really concerned about his off the field stuff, I’m more concerned with at what point does he start losing a step, because if he was a 4.42 guy he’d be just another receiver. 

[Lamardirts 2,121]

At some point you gotta sign your best guys.....we just have to keep drafting consistently well...actually better than the last couple overall to keep replenishing the teams talent.   Imo, this is the best time to extend him.  He’s motivated and will be cheaper

[Mloe68 1,521]

14 minutes ago, moons314 said:

He’s a risky long term sign because speed is his best asset.  If he loses a step or two, he becomes an average receiver worth probably 2-3 million a year. He’s not a big body that’s going to transition to a possession receiver when his speed goes. I just don’t think he’s a guy that’s going to have a 10-12 year nfl career.  My opinion is, I’d rather pay a little more per year but with a shorter contract to have some back end protection. I’m not really concerned about his off the field stuff, I’m more concerned with at what point does he start losing a step, because if he was a 4.42 guy he’d be just another receiver. 

Gotta disagree Moon because even when he slows down a few steps, he’s still got elite speed. He’s rapidly improving as route runner, has great hands and tracks the ball in the air as good as anyone in the NFL.  DeShaun Jackson still getting it done a decade later. I’d be fine locked to Tyreeks talents through his late 20s. It’s only the offield stuff that worries me.  And he’s tough as nails as well.  

[sith13 1,746]

Hill is the fastest guy in the league and one of the best WRs. However with the rule changes favoring the offenses so much I'm not sure if the performance difference between a top WR and a decent one actually warrants the money tied up to the position. When you have a good QB the WRs all play well simply due to the small difference between top and decent. I'm in favor of keeping Hill in the short term simply to give Mahomes one of the best in the league while he really settles in but definitely don't want to tie up big money to the position in general as the position is rarely worth it. 

[Docbarnabee 225]

He deserves the money.  Maybe not a contract topping Michael Thomas,  but a significant one.

[Handswarmer 645]

Better have some outs in that deal for the Chiefs; they have to protect themselves.

[oldtimer 8,694]

he's worth what he gets..period

[oldtimer 8,694]

9 hours ago, Chiefswinitall said:

Just remember Dwayne Bowe.   

Players never live up to big contracts.

 

I'm no DB fan but a little reality is in order

https://arrowheadaddict.com/2019/05/22/dwayne-bowe-chiefs-career-pitiful-carousel-quarterbacks/

The list of Bowe’s accomplishments is actually pretty long. In his eight year career with the Chiefs, he caught 532 passes, amassed 7,155 yards receiving, and had 44 receiving touchdowns. Currently, he only trails Otis Taylor and Tony Gonzalez in career receiving marks for the franchise.

[DieHard 2,061]

58 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

I'm no DB fan but a little reality is in order

https://arrowheadaddict.com/2019/05/22/dwayne-bowe-chiefs-career-pitiful-carousel-quarterbacks/

The list of Bowe’s accomplishments is actually pretty long. In his eight year career with the Chiefs, he caught 532 passes, amassed 7,155 yards receiving, and had 44 receiving touchdowns. Currently, he only trails Otis Taylor and Tony Gonzalez in career receiving marks for the franchise.

Good point OT. And I think it’s fair to say that if you spend 6 years with Thigpen, Huard and Cassel, but still average more the 1000 yards a season when healthy, that’s pretty legit. His speed did fall off a cliff towards the end but bottom line is Bowe’s strength was not speed. It was being big and strong and cool maybe Ng down with contested balls. Smith was not a QB that was going to throw it up for grabs.

[kkuenn 3,613]

Yes but in 3 years Hill has 223 receptions, 3255 yards and 25 tds. He will blow by Bowe, barring injury or off field stuff in 3 years.

[Handswarmer 645]

26 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

Yes but in 3 years Hill has 223 receptions, 3255 yards and 25 tds. He will blow by Bowe, barring injury or off field stuff in 3 years.

Look at the stellar QB's Bowe had throwing to him....🤢

[kkuenn 3,613]

Just now, Handswarmer said:

Look at the stellar QB's Bowe had throwing to him....🤢

Well he still was a WR coming out. Hill was converting from RB. People can use all excuses. Hell with Mahomes having so much options per some, Hill would be even better if he was the only WR threat etc......

[moons314 2,463]

1 hour ago, Handswarmer said:

Better have some outs in that deal for the Chiefs; they have to protect themselves.

I doubt the nflpa would go for it, but there should be a provision that allows teams to void contracts for players suspended but the league. That would give teams cover and act as a potential deterrent toward stupid behavior. 

[Handswarmer 645]

Just now, moons314 said:

I doubt the nflpa would go for it, but there should be a provision that allows teams to void contracts for players suspended but the league. That would give teams cover and act as a potential deterrent toward stupid behavior. 

I agree but there is a precedent here with the plea deal so that could factor in. Notr even sure where to look for info on contract structure/language as it pertains to personal conduct but I'll will try.

[moons314 2,463]

1 minute ago, kkuenn said:

Well he still was a WR coming out. Hill was converting from RB. People can use all excuses. Hell with Mahomes having so much options per some, Hill would be even better if he was the only WR threat etc......

Hill would be much worse off if he were the only threat. He’s struggled against bracket-man coverage.  He needs help so he can use his speed in single coverage 

[kkuenn 3,613]

Just now, moons314 said:

Hill would be much worse off if he were the only threat. He’s struggled against bracket-man coverage.  He needs help so he can use his speed in single coverage 

Yep. Bowe would have been shut down too if not for TG.

[moons314 2,463]

Just now, Handswarmer said:

I agree but there is a precedent here with the plea deal so that could factor in. Notr even sure where to look for info on contract structure/language as it pertains to personal conduct but I'll will try.

Taking that a step further, it could also reign in Goodell. If teams have that coverage, the players union will be much tougher when it comes to fighting goodell and his arbitrary rulings.  I think their personal conduct policy goes too far into the private lives of players.  

[Handswarmer 645]

5 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

Well he still was a WR coming out. Hill was converting from RB. People can use all excuses. Hell with Mahomes having so much options per some, Hill would be even better if he was the only WR threat etc......

Also, different offenses...

[Handswarmer 645]

2 minutes ago, moons314 said:

Taking that a step further, it could also reign in Goodell. If teams have that coverage, the players union will be much tougher when it comes to fighting goodell and his arbitrary rulings.  I think their personal conduct policy goes too far into the private lives of players.  

Well, the NFLPA lost the grievance they filed against the NFL back in 2015. This new CBA will be different.

[Balto 723]

9 hours ago, moons314 said:

He’s a risky long term sign because speed is his best asset.  If he loses a step or two, he becomes an average receiver worth probably 2-3 million a year. He’s not a big body that’s going to transition to a possession receiver when his speed goes. I just don’t think he’s a guy that’s going to have a 10-12 year nfl career.  My opinion is, I’d rather pay a little more per year but with a shorter contract to have some back end protection. I’m not really concerned about his off the field stuff, I’m more concerned with at what point does he start losing a step, because if he was a 4.42 guy he’d be just another receiver. 

I wouldn’t worry much about the length of the contract as even Michael Thomas new 5 year $100M contract has a $60M guarantee.  Thus depending on structure the Saints can walk in 3 years.

Hell I’d give him a 10 year $200M contract with $80M guaranteed if he’d sign it lol

[Handswarmer 645]

9 minutes ago, Balto said:

I wouldn’t worry much about the length of the contract as even Michael Thomas new 5 year $100M contract has a $60M guarantee.  Thus depending on structure the Saints can walk in 3 years.

Hell I’d give him a 10 year $200M contract with $80M guaranteed if he’d sign it lol

FROM PFT:

Here is the full breakdown of the contract, followed by some analysis.

1. As previously reported, Thomas gets a signing bonus of $20 million.

2. 2019 base salary: $1.648043 million, fully guaranteed.

3. 2020 base salary: $11 million, fully guaranteed.

4. 2021 base salary: $12.6 million, $3 million of which is fully guaranteed at signing. The remaining $9.6 million is guaranteed for injury only at signing, and it becomes fully guaranteed on the third day of the 2021 league year.

5. 2021 workout bonus: $200,000, guaranteed for injury only.

6. 2022 base salary: $15.35 million, guaranteed for injury only and fully guaranteed on the third day of the 2022 league year.

7. 2022 roster bonus: $250,000, due on the fifth day of the league year. Not guaranteed.

8. 2022 workout bonus: $200,000, guaranteed for injury only.

9. 2023 base salary: $15.5 million. Not guaranteed.

10. 2023 roster bonus: $250,000, due on the fifth day of the league year. Not guaranteed.

11. 2023 workout bonus: $200,000, not guaranteed.

12. 2023 46-man per-game roster bonuses: $31,250, with a maximum of $500,000.

13. 2024 base salary: $18.5 million. Not guaranteed.

14. 2024 roster bonus: $250,000, due on the fifth day of the league year. Not guaranteed.

15. 2024 workout bonus: $200,000, not guaranteed.

16. 2024 46-man per-game roster bonuses: $46,875, with a maximum of $750,000.

For 2023 and 2024, the deal has escalators that max out at $1.875 million each year, with $375,000 payable based on each of five different triggers tied to achievements in 2022 and 2023, respectively: 12 touchdowns, 1,400 receiving yards, 1,400 and a playoff berth, 100 receptions, and 100 receptions and a playoff berth.

Thus, it’s a base deal of $96.25 million. To get to $100 million, Thomas needs to do each of the following in 2022 and 2023: Catch 100 passes, gain 1,400 yards, score 12 touchdowns, and get to the playoffs.

The full guarantee at signing is $35.64 million, covering the first two years and a slice of 2021. For the bulk of 2021 and all of 2022 through 2024, it’s a series of year-to-year team-held options.

And even if it truly were a $100 million deal, Thomas wouldn’t be the first non-quarterback to get there, despite reports characterizing it that way. Larry Fitzgerald signed a $120 million contract in 2011, and Calvin Johnson signed a deal worth up to $132 million in 2012.

But, again, it’s not a $100 million deal. It’s a $96.25 million deal. And the rolling guarantees give the Saints plenty of flexibility beyond 2020, if Thomas isn’t performing at a high level, or perhaps if the Saints don’t have a quarterback who can get the most out of Thomas.

[Mloe68 1,521]

7 hours ago, sith13 said:

Hill is the fastest guy in the league and one of the best WRs. However with the rule changes favoring the offenses so much I'm not sure if the performance difference between a top WR and a decent one actually warrants the money tied up to the position. When you have a good QB the WRs all play well simply due to the small difference between top and decent. I'm in favor of keeping Hill in the short term simply to give Mahomes one of the best in the league while he really settles in but definitely don't want to tie up big money to the position in general as the position is rarely worth it. 

Interesting.  I do however see nearly every team with a high level QB though paying a high level WR.  The Pats are always an exception to that although even they take constant shots on troubled high level weapons.

 More on point I think Veach is all about keeping the band together through 2021 when the MVPs money will kick in.  At that point the finances will have to change. Every big contract he’s handed out reflect and give flexibility beyond that.