Hmmm- another reason Dorsey was let go?

[Handswarmer 645]

Reading an article about Cleveland Oline coach ripping new HC Kitchens, I was struck by this comment he made about Dorsey and Andy Reid in relation to retaining Gregg Williams as HC

Wylie was unhappy most of the coaches were fired after the season. The Browns were 5-3 once interim coach Gregg Williams took over for Jackson.

“Gregg Williams turned the team around,” said Wylie. "In the second half of the season, it was his work that got it to where it is. My own personal feeling is Gregg was too strong a candidate for the seat.

"I don’t think Dorsey wanted to go head-to-head with Gregg like he had to do with Andy Reid in Kansas City, so he kind of filtered Gregg out of the picture and he kept the search going.''

I know there are other reasons why but this struck me as odd because Reid has always been known to be a people person and not confrontational or power hungry.

Also, Reid had is contract renewed before Dorsey, which was also supposed to happen but then he was let go after Reid's deal was announced.

[sith13 1,746]

Reid likes to have control and he had it most of his career. The dynamic in KC was much different with the GM being basically the scouting and finances with little authority over the team. It could be the reason they didn't get along with Reid but I doubt that's the case in Cleveland as they didn't have an established HC at any point. 

[KC Warpaint 3,252]

Cap Maintenance ....that is the only reason that mattered

hell if dorsey were still here we would still have the same defense because he would have kept ford and given him a huge contract

 

[Thegoatee 1,789]

Let us not pretend that Gregg Williams failed as a head coach and was the source of bounty gate and explicitly taped asking Saints players to target Alex Smith’s head. The guy may do well as a coordinator, but I’d be up in arms if he was on our staff, let alone a head coach.

[Mloe68 1,521]

3 hours ago, Handswarmer said:

Reading an article about Cleveland Oline coach ripping new HC Kitchens, I was struck by this comment he made about Dorsey and Andy Reid in relation to retaining Gregg Williams as HC

Wylie was unhappy most of the coaches were fired after the season. The Browns were 5-3 once interim coach Gregg Williams took over for Jackson.

“Gregg Williams turned the team around,” said Wylie. "In the second half of the season, it was his work that got it to where it is. My own personal feeling is Gregg was too strong a candidate for the seat.

"I don’t think Dorsey wanted to go head-to-head with Gregg like he had to do with Andy Reid in Kansas City, so he kind of filtered Gregg out of the picture and he kept the search going.''

I know there are other reasons why but this struck me as odd because Reid has always been known to be a people person and not confrontational or power hungry.

Also, Reid had is contract renewed before Dorsey, which was also supposed to happen but then he was let go after Reid's deal was announced.

Maybe Dorsey is a little gun shy and wants to be THE guy without any question. But reasonably any smart person realizes he succeeds because he hires other smart people to work around him and make him look good. The book on Dorsey is that he's awkward to work with because he's not a very good communicator. Listening to him in interviews was almost comical at times. And he simply doesn't understand contracts very well. But I really doubt Williams wasn't hired because of anything other than Dorsey wanting to sink or swim with his guy at the helm. Also priority 1,2 and 3 in Cleveland is developing Baker Mayfield. Kitchens and Baker clearly had chemistry. Now whether it was the right hire or not is very questionable, but it does make sense.

[kkuenn 3,614]

All the hype with the browns.... what if they dont even get above 500 this year? Man will there be back pedaling on all fronts from media to the staff and players.

[Mloe68 1,521]

4 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

All the hype with the browns.... what if they dont even get above 500 this year? Man will there be back pedaling on all fronts from media to the staff and players.

Kitchens has got to manage some big personalities but man is that team loaded with talent. They probably have the top 2 RBs in the division, two top 5 WRs, the most talented TE in the division and of course a budding star in Mayfield. Not to mention a lot of talent on defense.  I think Pitt wins that division but the Browns will be close.  Either that or Kitchens will be overmatched and an Uber talented team will implode.  😂 

[jetlord 10,210]

31 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

Kitchens has got to manage some big personalities but man is that team loaded with talent. They probably have the top 2 RBs in the division, two top 5 WRs, the most talented TE in the division and of course a budding star in Mayfield. Not to mention a lot of talent on defense.  I think Pitt wins that division but the Browns will be close.  Either that or Kitchens will be overmatched and an Uber talented team will implode.  😂 

Hands will get you for that.  With the greatly improved Jackson, the Ravens are a lock. 

[Biggjliv4 1,292]

Like him or not, this is Dorsey''s chance to be the man. It's his second chance and could be he last so you can't blame him for bringing in whoever he wants as the coach. He can at least go out knowing he did it his way if he fails. He's the GM with all the power he didn't have here. Be interesting to see what happens in the long term there 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

6 hours ago, jetlord said:

Hands will get you for that.  With the greatly improved Jackson, the Ravens are a lock. 

He must be hiding for September because he looks terrible tonight

[qnet 1,160]

14 hours ago, Handswarmer said:

Reading an article about Cleveland Oline coach ripping new HC Kitchens, I was struck by this comment he made about Dorsey and Andy Reid in relation to retaining Gregg Williams as HC

Wylie was unhappy most of the coaches were fired after the season. The Browns were 5-3 once interim coach Gregg Williams took over for Jackson.

“Gregg Williams turned the team around,” said Wylie. "In the second half of the season, it was his work that got it to where it is. My own personal feeling is Gregg was too strong a candidate for the seat.

"I don’t think Dorsey wanted to go head-to-head with Gregg like he had to do with Andy Reid in Kansas City, so he kind of filtered Gregg out of the picture and he kept the search going.''

I know there are other reasons why but this struck me as odd because Reid has always been known to be a people person and not confrontational or power hungry.

Also, Reid had is contract renewed before Dorsey, which was also supposed to happen but then he was let go after Reid's deal was announced.

 IMO it reads like Dorsey didn't want to deal with a strong personality, and wanted someone easier to control. From my understanding, the structure in KC is the coach & GM have their responsibilities, are on the same level, and they both answer to Clark Hunt. 

[Handswarmer 645]

18 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

Kitchens has got to manage some big personalities but man is that team loaded with talent. They probably have the top 2 RBs in the division, two top 5 WRs, the most talented TE in the division and of course a budding star in Mayfield. Not to mention a lot of talent on defense.  I think Pitt wins that division but the Browns will be close.  Either that or Kitchens will be overmatched and an Uber talented team will implode.  😂 

I will disagree on the RB comment. Our WR's are young so no disagreement there. TE is where I think we have the most talented group in the AFC North maybe the AFC,

Our defense will still be Top 5/10 and Lamar is looking better as a passer.

17 hours ago, jetlord said:

Hands will get you for that.  With the greatly improved Jackson, the Ravens are a lock. 

Never a lock but hope springs eternal

10 hours ago, liquidfriend said:

He must be hiding for September because he looks terrible tonight

Threw 2 bad passes out of 6, I will take it.

[sith13 1,746]

14 hours ago, Biggjliv4 said:

Like him or not, this is Dorsey''s chance to be the man. It's his second chance and could be he last so you can't blame him for bringing in whoever he wants as the coach. He can at least go out knowing he did it his way if he fails. He's the GM with all the power he didn't have here. Be interesting to see what happens in the long term there 

Dorsey did a great job of drafting Mahomes and looks like he picked the right QB in the next draft. In a QB-driven league he'll be fine for a while. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

2 hours ago, sith13 said:

Dorsey did a great job of drafting Mahomes and looks like he picked the right QB in the next draft. In a QB-driven league he'll be fine for a while. 

Pretty well documented that Dorsey was only a pawn in the Mahomes draft.  Veach sold him to Andy. And then Andy took over. No way Andy’s not the catalyst behind any move like that. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

4 hours ago, Handswarmer said:

I will disagree on the RB comment. Our WR's are young so no disagreement there. TE is where I think we have the most talented group in the AFC North maybe the AFC,

Kareem Hunt is clearly the best RB in the division. So it really depends on where you rank Chubb. I'd say he's right there with Connor, Ingram and Mixon though as solid 2nd tier RBs. Bottom line is they are loaded at RB. Add up the statistics and the Browns TE group is better.  But I do like the Ravens TE potential, especially Andrews. I'd rather have Njoku that anyone you have though. Botton line talent wise Cleveland is formidable. By far the best skill position players in that division.  The Steelers still have a HOF QB and made good moves on defense. I think they battle it out for the division with the Ravens being competitive too. 

[Handswarmer 645]

Just now, Mloe68 said:

Kareem Hunt is clearly the best RB in the division. So it really depends on where you rank Chubb. I'd say he's right there with Connor, Ingram and Mixon though as solid 2nd tier RBs. Bottom line is they are loaded at RB. Add up the statistics and the Browns TE group is better.  But I do like the Ravens TE potential, especially Andrews. I'd rather have Njoku that anyone you have though. Botton line talent wise Cleveland is formidable. By far the best skill position players in that division.  The Steelers still have a HOF QB and made good moves on defense. I think they battle it out for the division with the Ravens being competitive too. 

Hunt being suspended for 8 games devalues him. What shape will he be in when he comes back? He will only face 2 defenses that were in the top 10 last year (Steelers 2x), 1 in the top 20- the rest are 29th or worst. Chubb ran for 63 and 24 against us. Good back but our run defense is pretty darn good. I do not believe Ingram is a Tier 2 RB- Connor either. Cle only has Njoku. Ravens counter with Andrews, Hurst and Boyle- all three are threats. Wr? I'd say OBJ, Aj Green and Juju are even. Ravens are real young there. Ben gives everyone a chance to win everytime he takes a snap- I've seen it too many times.

Overall I think you will see an improved LJ8, the defense won't skip a beat and the Offense will win games as they defend their Division title. CLE and Pitt will make it interesting tho...Ravens schedule is perfectly balanced tho-  A H A H A H A H A H A H A H A H

[Mloe68 1,521]

6 minutes ago, Handswarmer said:

Hunt being suspended for 8 games devalues him. What shape will he be in when he comes back? He will only face 2 defenses that were in the top 10 last year (Steelers 2x), 1 in the top 20- the rest are 29th or worst. Chubb ran for 63 and 24 against us. Good back but our run defense is pretty darn good. I do not believe Ingram is a Tier 2 RB- Connor either. Cle only has Njoku. Ravens counter with Andrews, Hurst and Boyle- all three are threats. Wr? I'd say OBJ, Aj Green and Juju are even. Ravens are real young there. Ben gives everyone a chance to win everytime he takes a snap- I've seen it too many times.

Overall I think you will see an improved LJ8, the defense won't skip a beat and the Offense will win games as they defend their Division title. CLE and Pitt will make it interesting tho...Ravens schedule is perfectly balanced tho-  A H A H A H A H A H A H A H A H

Having a fresh Kareem for the stretch run makes them even more dangerous in my opinion. I think there's actually some benefit to these suspensions IF the guys keep themselves in shape. Ingram and Conner are CLEARLY a full level below the top tier guys like Barkley, Hunt, Gurley, Bell and Kamara. More teams than not have a guy at the level of Connor or Ingram. You say Njoku is all they have, but our backup, now their backup had more production than your 2-3 TEs. They need to prove something first. Agree OBJ, Green and JuJu are all similar with Green maybe passing his prime at this point. Jarvis Landry is really good too. Not at that level but top 5 in the division. 

I have no doubt Jackson will improve. If he doesn't, the Ravens won't win 8 games. As I've said before I respect what the Ravens are trying to do. Get rid of a solid QB you had no chance with and replace him with a rookie contract and a guy with definite IT factor. He was the Louisville program. But there's also a reason many teams saw him as a WR. It won't be boring for you. 

 

[oldtimer 8,694]

6 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

Having a fresh Kareem for the stretch run makes them even more dangerous in my opinion. I think there's actually some benefit to these suspensions IF the guys keep themselves in shape. Ingram and Conner are CLEARLY a full level below the top tier guys like Barkley, Hunt, Gurley, Bell and Kamara. More teams than not have a guy at the level of Connor or Ingram. You say Njoku is all they have, but our backup, now their backup had more production than your 2-3 TEs. They need to prove something first. Agree OBJ, Green and JuJu are all similar with Green maybe passing his prime at this point. Jarvis Landry is really good too. Not at that level but top 5 in the division. 

I have no doubt Jackson will improve. If he doesn't, the Ravens won't win 8 games. As I've said before I respect what the Ravens are trying to do. Get rid of a solid QB you had no chance with and replace him with a rookie contract and a guy with definite IT factor. He was the Louisville program. But there's also a reason many teams saw him as a WR. It won't be boring for you. 

 

here's the rub.. its apparent KH cant keep himself out of trouble so that 8 weeks  is an eternity also what will their record be in those 8 games??..will they be able to even win enough to make a wild card much less win a title?? time will tell 

[Mloe68 1,521]

41 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

here's the rub.. its apparent KH cant keep himself out of trouble so that 8 weeks  is an eternity also what will their record be in those 8 games??..will they be able to even win enough to make a wild card much less win a title?? time will tell 

No doubt. There’s nothing to be confident about when it comes to the Browns yet. With a young emerging Nick Chubb at RB they are fine there though until Kareem can play. (Clock ticking on another incident though for sure)

[Handswarmer 645]

2 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

Having a fresh Kareem for the stretch run makes them even more dangerous in my opinion. I think there's actually some benefit to these suspensions IF the guys keep themselves in shape. Ingram and Conner are CLEARLY a full level below the top tier guys like Barkley, Hunt, Gurley, Bell and Kamara. More teams than not have a guy at the level of Connor or Ingram. You say Njoku is all they have, but our backup, now their backup had more production than your 2-3 TEs. They need to prove something first. Agree OBJ, Green and JuJu are all similar with Green maybe passing his prime at this point. Jarvis Landry is really good too. Not at that level but top 5 in the division. 

I have no doubt Jackson will improve. If he doesn't, the Ravens won't win 8 games. As I've said before I respect what the Ravens are trying to do. Get rid of a solid QB you had no chance with and replace him with a rookie contract and a guy with definite IT factor. He was the Louisville program. But there's also a reason many teams saw him as a WR. It won't be boring for you.

 

As far as RB, I was only talking about within the AFC North, not the NFL. For the record, you now brought in Bell, Gurley and Kamara- Bell has 3 100 yd games in 9 tries vs Baltimore. Kamara had 64 vs us last year. Not really worried about those guys. Now if you are talking about Demetrius Harris, you're smoking something. he had 185 yds receiving last year. Mark Andrews had 34 for 552 and 3 TDs last year as a rookie, not a 5 yr vet. Hayden Hurst missed all of TC last year and 1 yd less than Harris. Nick Boyle had more than Harris.

Lamar looked really good last night compared to last year- better footwork, increased vision, tighter spirals and better velocity.

[Mloe68 1,521]

18 minutes ago, Handswarmer said:

As far as RB, I was only talking about within the AFC North, not the NFL. For the record, you now brought in Bell, Gurley and Kamara- Bell has 3 100 yd games in 9 tries vs Baltimore. Kamara had 64 vs us last year. Not really worried about those guys. Now if you are talking about Demetrius Harris, your smoking something. he had 185 yds receiving last year. Mark Andrews had 34 for 552 and 3 TDs last year as a rookie, not a 5 yr vet. Hayden Hurst missed all of TC last year and 1 yd less than Harris. Nick Boyle had more than Harris.

Lamar looked really good last night compared to last year- better footwork, increased vision, tighter spirals and better velocity.

Gotcha about RB. There's Hunt and then 4 RBs for each team who are all about even. I'd agree with that. Very similar. How the RBs however fared against Baltimore isn't nearly as relevant as their overall impact over the course of the season. The Cardinals were the only team in the NFL to hold the Chiefs under 300 yards last year. That didn't really matter when they were on the golf course while we were playing in the AFC Championship game. Some teams matchup with other perhaps better overall teams. It happens.  Bottom line is you had three TEs you are trying to anoint as the best in football who accounted for 4 TDs in a combined 45 games. Our backup TE had 3 in 15. Those guys have a lot to prove. 

[reesebobby 5,664]

26 minutes ago, Handswarmer said:

Now if you are talking about Demetrius Harris, your smoking something.

It's you're.  Very important distinction. 

[Handswarmer 645]

22 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

Gotcha about RB. There's Hunt and then 4 RBs for each team who are all about even. I'd agree with that. Very similar. How the RBs however fared against Baltimore isn't nearly as relevant as their overall impact over the course of the season. The Cardinals were the only team in the NFL to hold the Chiefs under 300 yards last year. That didn't really matter when they were on the golf course while we were playing in the AFC Championship game. Some teams matchup with other perhaps better overall teams. It happens.  Bottom line is you had three TEs you are trying to anoint as the best in football who accounted for 4 TDs in a combined 45 games. Our backup TE had 3 in 15. Those guys have a lot to prove. 

I never anointed anyone. All I said was besides Njoku, there wasn't much. 2 of the the TE's here were better than Incompletius Harris. And they are younger, faster and better. And changed offenses in the middle of the year. I would even venture to say that Mahomes is great he MADE Harris

[Handswarmer 645]

21 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

It's you're.  Very important distinction. 

Ok, you're a grammar Nazi.

[sith13 1,746]

4 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

Pretty well documented that Dorsey was only a pawn in the Mahomes draft.  Veach sold him to Andy. And then Andy took over. No way Andy’s not the catalyst behind any move like that. 

The entire staff always has a role to play in the draft. In the end the credit goes to the GM who takes care of the whole thing including the trade up. He had a much easier task in Cleveland but looks like he chose the right QB the year after and I'm pretty sure a lot of the staff in Cleveland had a role in that too.