Ramsey

[WichitaZRide 321]

2 hours ago, Handswarmer said:

Say they did the deal- 2 each #1's for Ramsey plus an extension of $16 mill per year.....

How does that affect the salary cap? - (Future)Might not do squat with the CBA and rapid rate of Cap increases every season - this year probably makes it hard to sign a needed player due to emergency injury

How does that affect Mahomes deal? - It doesn't

How does it affect the team going forward:  Puts them in a solid position for the next 3 years to win the superbowl

- zero #1's in the next 2 drafts - Once you shore up the secondary, what position of need does this team even have that would be necessary for a 1st rounder? 

-drafting late in the 2nd rd consecutively  *assuming continued success with post season success* - Kind of like above, development and depth as the core is here for awhile

-potentially losing players due to salary cap restrictions - Not having 1st rounders for 2 years will free up some coin, the rapid increase does the same. 

All that said, this is what happened to Denver.  Elway was dumb and once manning left and all the people he overpaid left they have sucked.  I think Veach is a much better money manager than Elway.  Additionally, players every year take chump change to play in New England for a chance at a ring.  The chiefs could very well become that team.

Lastly, I won't even lie.  If Veach gambles it all and gets us a Superbowl, and we end up imploding after that and become the Royals or Broncos...i'm not gonna lie, i'm okay with that.  When you're 40 years old and have never seen my team go to, let alone win a superbowl, you make deals with the devil...lol

[FANATIC 852]

1 minute ago, kkuenn said:

No 1st round pick is guaranteed to work either. I dont see where people are talking cap hell. We have 22 million this year and could trade for him and give him all up front and thus make the last few years cap hits very small. We go into next year doing cuts we all can see coming with Watkins, Sorensen and such and use that money for Jones and others. We also pick up Mahomes 5th year and extend him in season with cap hit down a bit until Ramsey is paid and Mahomes hits take his place. All of this and you still would have a 2nd round pick, a possible 3rd round comp pick etc after giving up say a 1st and 3rd for Ramsey and his elite CB play. I just dont get how you can say one big injury away and not take into that then one big draft bust away or a CB not available worthy of a pick at the end of the 1st round etc.

So you are ok with setting up the BRINKS TRUCK MENTALITY for Chiefs Players going forward? 

[kkuenn 3,597]

Just now, FANATIC said:

So you are ok with setting up the BRINKS TRUCK MENTALITY for Chiefs Players going forward? 

If we can afford it, yes I am. Hell Mahomes will back up Ft Knox when he comes calling.....

We have a great D line and rotation. All around 25 or so. We have nothing in secondary at CB position but what we do have is young players still. Throw Ramsey into it and we get a ton better. We have a good young S group now too. LBs are not bad at all, average so far but I think they do better as we go along and having someone the ability to lock down one side or their best receiver is a huge plus. We know our offense can do too. I do believe there was a reason they went and redid contracts. I think they were looking at Peterson myself and Arizona would want a 1st for him. Why not throw in another 3rd and get a shut down corner in his prime and still very young instead? We have 2 more years to tag jones with him playing this year at 42 million. I think we get a contract done for him as stated and move on then to Mahomes the next year. We have plenty of outs for Watkins, Sorensen etc. Veach has done a terrific job in getting cap space, then using it and keeping us from cap hell so far. I will lay my trust in him on this one too.

[FANATIC 852]

1 minute ago, WichitaZRide said:

All that said, this is what happened to Denver.  Elway was dumb and once manning left and all the people he overpaid left they have sucked.  I think Veach is a much better money manager than Elway.  Additionally, players every year take chump change to play in New England for a chance at a ring.  The chiefs could very well become that team.

Lastly, I won't even lie.  If Veach gambles it all and gets us a Superbowl, and we end up imploding after that and become the Royals or Broncos...i'm not gonna lie, i'm okay with that.  When you're 40 years old and have never seen my team go to, let alone win a superbowl, you make deals with the devil...lol

I am not the Win it all or Nothing Guy. KC may have gotten some good deals had they been patient like Pats & Seattle have during this season. I dont see stars playing for NE for so called chump change. Thats a MYTH.  Maybe a veteran near the end looking for one more chance. KC could get those guys too.  I do see NE willing to move on if guys get too expensive. NO question they are very well coached and get the most out of most. NE is also willing to work around their problems with good coaching vs panik overpay ot trad, let alone an overpay including picks.. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

10 minutes ago, FANATIC said:

I am not the Win it all or Nothing Guy. KC may haveRaq gotten some good deals had they been patient like Pats & Seattle have during this season. I dont see stars playing for NE for so called chump change. Thats a MYTH.  Maybe a veteran near the end looking for one more chance. KC could get those guys too.  I do see NE willing to move on if guys get too expensive. NO question they are very well coached and get the most out of most. NE is also willing to work around their problems with good coaching vs panik overpay ot trad, let alone an overpay including picks.. 

Really? Moss, Brown, Gordon, Amendola, Blount, Patrick Chung, Alan Branch, Malcolm Butler, Junior Seau, Ninkovich, Vrabel, Revis, Rodney Harrison, Rex Burkhead etc. Not all were big time names or at the end of their careers but they were pretty much pilfered for signings or trading for them.

[Balto 723]

17 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

No 1st round pick is guaranteed to work either. I dont see where people are talking cap hell. We have 22 million this year and could trade for him and give him all up front and thus make the last few years cap hits very small. We go into next year doing cuts we all can see coming with Watkins, Sorensen and such and use that money for Jones and others. We also pick up Mahomes 5th year and extend him in season with cap hit down a bit until Ramsey is paid and Mahomes hits take his place. All of this and you still would have a 2nd round pick, a possible 3rd round comp pick etc after giving up say a 1st and 3rd for Ramsey and his elite CB play. I just dont get how you can say one big injury away and not take into that then one big draft bust away or a CB not available worthy of a pick at the end of the 1st round etc.

I also believe we get to keep the highest of our pick or 49ers pick....So lets hope the 49ers don't make the playoffs haha

[kkuenn 3,597]

2 minutes ago, Balto said:

I also believe we get to keep the highest of our pick or 49ers pick....So lets hope the 49ers don't make the playoffs haha

We do keep that pick. I am hoping they start tanking here soon against better competition. 4 losses versus Rams and Seattle I hope and then a few more to get a mid 2nd round type pick.

[the Warparty 69]

I know we have needs, but ramsey will put HIS NEEDS above the team.

That was the problem with Peters, he wouldn't tackle! Put himself above the team.

Defense is played by 11 hats to the ball!

Ramesey will be a problem  his talent won't overcome.

[ChiefThunder 153]

Now what happens to Jones if we end up trading for Ramsey? Jones is Spags' new Justin Tuck

[Okiechief1 425]

18 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

Really? Moss, Brown, Gordon, Amendola, Blount, Patrick Chung, Alan Branch, Malcolm Butler, Junior Seau, Ninkovich, Vrabel, Revis, Rodney Harrison, Rex Burkhead etc. Not all were big time names or at the end of their careers but they were pretty much pilfered for signings or trading for them.

They also were willing to trade a first to Pitt for AB.

[Okiechief1 425]

5 minutes ago, ChiefThunder said:

Now what happens to Jones if we end up trading for Ramsey? Jones is Spags' new Justin Tuck

Tag n trade or they could tag him for the next year and see what the new CBA brings and they might be able to keep him if it goes up enough. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

We can make about anything work through 2021. But we have to understand the draft classes the next two years are going to represent core replacement players for guys we won't be able to afford beyond that. Veach has a long term plan and thats important to making this puzzle work. But in the mean time we've got a huge Super Bowl window here through 2021 that we need to do anything reasonable to break through. Its a great position to be in, but its also tricky. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

We don't even have the slightest idea on how much the cap will rise with the next CBA beyond it's certainly going to rise.  Hard to predict when the future will look like.

A lot of belief is that a majority of these deals today will look like a bargain in a few years, so keep that in mind.

[qnet 1,150]

2 hours ago, Balto said:

Nothing will hurt worse than Passing on Ramsey and then in the AFC Championship game Brady hits AB for the game winner that someone got burned on!  Everyone will say we should of traded 3 1st rounders if it meant that play not happening......Just Saying

It would hurt worse if the Chiefs do sign him, he get's burnt by AB for a TD on the last play of the AFCC. Chiefs season over, no first round pick and later picks, can't sign anymore players and are up against the cap. Chris Jones, a drafted homegrown player pissed, and still without a contract. 

Everyone keeps saying he's a shutdown corner and will shut down half the field. I'm sorry, I just don't see it. This is all reminding me of past players the Chiefs drafted or sighed that everyone wanted. Glen Dorsey, Patrick Sustain, Kendrall Bell, and aging Tye law, Matt Cassel,  Elvis Grac, throwing in Scott pioli , Todd Haley (because he must be a good coach since he argued with the Anquan Boldin on the sideline, he's a Bill Parcells disciple). More...Chester McGlockton, Leslie O'neal during the Marty era, only to get dominated & humiliated by the Broncos in the Monday night meltdown by backup Bubby Brister.

I'm sick of it, sick of it all. I want the Chiefs to be smart, keep building through the draft with their own players. This is something I've always wanted, and the Chiefs are halfway kind of doing it. It hasn't worked out totally, but I still like a lot of what they've done.  I know a lot of you won't agree, but that's how I feel. 

I admit I could be wrong, and if they sign him and he helps the Chiefs will a SB I will be happy, but not sure. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

20 hours ago, SEMO said:

Terez says no.  He is usually spot on.

I don't think Terez was going on record with a strong answer.  More of just his own prediction.

With that said, it would not shock me by any means if that were to be the result.

Some other options that could come up.

William Jackson III - Not a great start to 2019, but honestly the Bengals coaching staff is a trainwreck and I wouldn't hold that against any player on that team.  Had a great 2018 season.

Dre Kirkparick - Under contract through 2021.  Can be a stupid penalty machine at times, but also had the 2nd lowest completion rate allowed in 2018.  Base salary is around 9m for the rest of his deal.  Could probably be had for cheap.

I list them both because I anticipate the Bengals being major sellers next month.  They look awful.

Xavien Howard - A good corner, but will absolutely cost two first round picks.  Don't think you're avoiding that price tag at all.

PP - How dire will the Chiefs be?  Probably not dire enough to pay the ransom.

Quinton Dunbar - I anticipate the Redskins will become sellers and this could be a possibility here.

[FANATIC 852]

35 minutes ago, qnet said:

It would hurt worse if the Chiefs do sign him, he get's burnt by AB for a TD on the last play of the AFCC. Chiefs season over, no first round pick and later picks, can't sign anymore players and are up against the cap. Chris Jones, a drafted homegrown player pissed, and still without a contract. 

Everyone keeps saying he's a shutdown corner and will shut down half the field. I'm sorry, I just don't see it. This is all reminding me of past players the Chiefs drafted or sighed that everyone wanted. Glen Dorsey, Patrick Sustain, Kendrall Bell, and aging Tye law, Matt Cassel,  Elvis Grac, throwing in Scott pioli , Todd Haley (because he must be a good coach since he argued with the Anquan Boldin on the sideline, he's a Bill Parcells disciple). More...Chester McGlockton, Leslie O'neal during the Marty era, only to get dominated & humiliated by the Broncos in the Monday night meltdown by backup Bubby Brister.

I'm sick of it, sick of it all. I want the Chiefs to be smart, keep building through the draft with their own players. This is something I've always wanted, and the Chiefs are halfway kind of doing it. It hasn't worked out totally, but I still like a lot of what they've done.  I know a lot of you won't agree, but that's how I feel. 

I admit I could be wrong, and if they sign him and he helps the Chiefs will a SB I will be happy, but not sure. 

Me too.

[Biggjliv4 1,292]

I'm not a fan of the idea...I think he's a me first guy and will be the first to disrupt chemistry if we hit any bumps down the road.

That said, if they are considering, I'd rather wait until closer to the trade deadline. In one weekend Big Ben and Brees went down. I see no reason to jump on this now when so much can change between now and then. 

No desire to give up draft pics and kill the cap when we have solid talent at this point. At least in regards to the money and draft capital Ramsey will require. The dude showed up on a Brinks truck for fuck sake, that says plenty to me. 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

3 hours ago, FANATIC said:

 I dont think any team is perfect. I know every team is one key injury away from a big issue at any position. So I dont think you mortgage the future for one guy that may get you a title. You get Ramsey and say he gets hurt or Mahomes pulls a muscle during a playoff game or you get a really bad non penalty call? Getting Ramsey is no guarantee of anything but CAP HELL and less high draft picks. I dont think Veach has missed on his picks. Hardman & Thornhill are good choices. We dont know how the cap is working out yet. Too early to know for sure. When you pay huge contracts to players outside the team you are telling the current players that they too can show up in a brinks truck or demand a trade or hold out. Jones came in to play. Maybe he should have arrived in a brinks truck.

Oh by the Way. The odds makers dont think its fuck it KC is screwed. This team can and may win it all.

Well I dont care what the odds makers think. This group of corners is sad and I dont want to lose in a shootout again in the AFCG. And it does guarantee we will have less picks if we make a move for him, but it certainly doesnt guarantee we will be in cap hell.

[FANATIC 852]

2 minutes ago, Biggjliv4 said:

I'm not a fan of the idea...I think he's a me first guy and will be the first to disrupt chemistry if we hit any bumps down the road.

That said, if they are considering, I'd rather wait until closer to the trade deadline. In one weekend Big Ben and Brees went down. I see no reason to jump on this now when so much can change between now and then. 

No desire to give up draft pics and kill the cap when we have solid talent at this point. At least in regards to the money and draft capital Ramsey will require. The dude showed up on a Brinks truck for fuck sake, that says plenty to me. 

EXACTLY

[FANATIC 852]

3 hours ago, kkuenn said:

Really? Moss, Brown, Gordon, Amendola, Blount, Patrick Chung, Alan Branch, Malcolm Butler, Junior Seau, Ninkovich, Vrabel, Revis, Rodney Harrison, Rex Burkhead etc. Not all were big time names or at the end of their careers but they were pretty much pilfered for signings or trading for them.

Thank you. I think you made my overall point......This is exactly what KC could do and should do. No reason they cant. Be patient and wait. The opportunities will be there. The current roster is in the chase.

[TomahawkChop 255]

29 minutes ago, FANATIC said:

Thank you. I think you made my overall point......This is exactly what KC could do and should do. No reason they cant. Be patient and wait. The opportunities will be there. The current roster is in the chase.

Mods, please revoke Fanatic’s ability to increase font size, change font color and caps lock button. Pretty sure it’s somehow a violation of the terms of use. Maybe using too much internet inc or something?

 

j/k Fanatic;)

[Calichief 3,016]

2 hours ago, liquidfriend said:

I don't think Terez was going on record with a strong answer.  More of just his own prediction.

With that said, it would not shock me by any means if that were to be the result.

Some other options that could come up.

William Jackson III - Not a great start to 2019, but honestly the Bengals coaching staff is a trainwreck and I wouldn't hold that against any player on that team.  Had a great 2018 season.

Dre Kirkparick - Under contract through 2021.  Can be a stupid penalty machine at times, but also had the 2nd lowest completion rate allowed in 2018.  Base salary is around 9m for the rest of his deal.  Could probably be had for cheap.

I list them both because I anticipate the Bengals being major sellers next month.  They look awful.

Xavien Howard - A good corner, but will absolutely cost two first round picks.  Don't think you're avoiding that price tag at all.

PP - How dire will the Chiefs be?  Probably not dire enough to pay the ransom.

Quinton Dunbar - I anticipate the Redskins will become sellers and this could be a possibility here.

And terez came right back on today and said chiefs ARE INTERESTED. So there’s that.

[kkuenn 3,597]

1 hour ago, FANATIC said:

Thank you. I think you made my overall point......

They do trade for players and get these type wanting to play for them or take less to do so. I don't know if this is your point but they are looking to trade for Ramsey now.  My whole list was players that have taken less or been traded to the pats who have no problem with dealing picks or even have a 1st round picks too 

[xen 1,010,220]

3 hours ago, FANATIC said:

EXACTLY

WHY ARE U YELLING???

[liquidfriend 1,151]

2 hours ago, Calichief said:

And terez came right back on today and said chiefs ARE INTERESTED. So there’s that.

Not surprised.  I think people are expecting Terez to be plugged in Chiefs 24/7 and forget he's a national writer now.