Saying it again. We would be better if we drafted a LB'er instead of Mecole Hardman

[sith13 1,746]

22 hours ago, DieHard said:

Speaking of returns. Can we please not run it out of the end zone? We will get to the 20 and then move it back to the 10 for the penalty. Please just take it on the 25.

I would love to see that happen but too tough in our case. We have guys that only serve the purpose of returning kicks and they tend to go for the big plays to showcase their skills for job security. Right now ST is killing us, which is unusual with Toub in town, but I don't see the mentality change unless the coaches directly demand it from players. 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

On 10/15/2019 at 8:58 AM, WichitaZRide said:

First...the other time you brought this up, you wanted a CB, not a LB...make up your mind

Second...going with your own prior argument, we most likely would have grabbed a CB with the pick we used on Hardman and would still need LB

Third...the Chiefs thought they were okay with Ragland and Hitchens at LB in a new defense and most likely wouldn't have happened if we were good at CB anyway

Fourth...the draft was very sparse at LB in that area of talent.  The first LB taken after our 2nd round pick was nearly half a round later, 12 spots down.

Fourth...just like last time, I'm going to look at all the LBs taken between Hardman and the chiefs 4th round pick to see the gamechangers we passed up...

• Jachai Polite - Didn't even make his team, is on his 3rd practice squad
• Germaine Pratt - 4th on the depth chart for his team, averaging 1 tackle/game, no pressures/sacks/hurries/TFL
• Sione Takitaki - only seen snaps in two games, two assisted tackles, no solo...

So please, GURU of drafting and obvious hater of Tyreek Hill...tell me how your dream scenario of drafting a LB instead of Hardman would have actually impacted this team the way you are dreaming it would have.

I don't generally directly insult people on here(if ever), but you are just a small, uninformed person and you need to dial it back.  I feel for your co-workers and family that have to hear garbage like this from you everyday instead of just occasionally like the people on here. 

It's not just him though. Its Chiefs fans in general. The amount of success this team has had since Reid got here, reaching new levels last season, and knowing we have the best QB in football is so exciting.

We are legitimately set up as one of the better franchises in the sport now and going forward. And we lose 2 fucking games and people LITERALLY want our GM fired. On first place team!  I've read this stuff all week on multiple outlets. People legitimately want Brett Veach replaced. 

My best friend told me 2 days ago that if Spagnuolo was here 10 yrs he'd bet money we wouldn't have a top 10 defense in any of them. I'm like "dude you need to step back from the ledge. Hes been here 6 weeks".

Seriously this is a game, but this is also a business and an extremely hard job. These guys put in more hours than anyone outside doctors on call. They sacrifice so much time with their own families to put a product on the field that is fun for US to watch. This is their livelihood. Then they dont perform well for 2 weeks and these ass clowns think someone needs to be fired.

It would be comical to see them held to that same standard at their own jobs. "Well Tom you've led the district in sales the last 2.5 yrs, but these last 2 weeks you've really fizzled. Pack your shit up and be out by lunch".

Get a fucking grip.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

29 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

It's not just him though. Its Chiefs fans in general. The amount of success this team has had since Reid got here, reaching new levels last season, and knowing we have the best QB in football is so exciting.

We are legitimately set up as one of the better franchises in the sport now and going forward. And we lose 2 fucking games and people LITERALLY want our GM fired. On first place team!  I've read this stuff all week on multiple outlets. People legitimately want Brett Veach replaced. 

My best friend told me 2 days ago that if Spagnuolo was here 10 yrs he'd bet money we wouldn't have a top 10 defense in any of them. I'm like "dude you need to step back from the ledge. Hes been here 6 weeks".

Seriously this is a game, but this is also a business and an extremely hard job. These guys put in more hours than anyone outside doctors on call. They sacrifice so much time with their own families to put a product on the field that is fun for US to watch. This is their livelihood. Then they dont perform well for 2 weeks and these ass clowns think someone needs to be fired.

It would be comical to see them held to that same standard at their own jobs. "Well Tom you've led the district in sales the last 2.5 yrs, but these last 2 weeks you've really fizzled. Pack your shit up and be out by lunch".

Get a fucking grip.

Except Tom hasn’t led district sales in 2.5 years.   Our D has been horrid for 3-4 years straight.   I am one who thinks Veach should be on the hot seat but I haven’t said anything about Spags because like you said he’s only been there a year.  Veach has had multiple seasons just to build a decent avg D and we keep getting worse.

i do get where you are coming from but I remember the Marty years.  Always relevant and good and yet most of us knew that unless we had a miracle we weren’t going to the SB.  Up until the last two weeks I actually believed this team could just play well and we could get there.  I don’t believe that anymore.  Starting to feel like we need everything to line up.   And the reality is this team isn’t going to get more talented it’s only going to get less because we have to pay Pat.   I don’t think anyone should get fired now but if our D losses us a playoff game again and keeps regressing then someone should be accountable at the end of this year.   With all of that said, I’m clinging to hope that we can get it figured out but who knows.  Need to beat the Donks this week for sure though!

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

21 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

Except Tom hasn’t led district sales in 2.5 years.   Our D has been horrid for 3-4 years straight.   I am one who thinks Veach should be on the hot seat but I haven’t said anything about Spags because like you said he’s only been there a year.  Veach has had multiple seasons just to build a decent avg D and we keep getting worse.

i do get where you are coming from but I remember the Marty years.  Always relevant and good and yet most of us knew that unless we had a miracle we weren’t going to the SB.  Up until the last two weeks I actually believed this team could just play well and we could get there.  I don’t believe that anymore.  Starting to feel like we need everything to line up.   And the reality is this team isn’t going to get more talented it’s only going to get less because we have to pay Pat.   I don’t think anyone should get fired now but if our D losses us a playoff game again and keeps regressing then someone should be accountable at the end of this year.   With all of that said, I’m clinging to hope that we can get it figured out but who knows.  Need to beat the Donks this week for sure though!

Any team that wins the SB these needs everything to line up. And Veach isnt just responsible for building a good defense. He is responsible for building a good ROSTER. His title isnt " general manager of defense". So far the rosters he has assembled have performed quite well.

So yes, Tom has led the district in sales the last 2.5 years. I'm tired of hearing people rip Veach for our crappy defense while giving him no credit for assembling the most explosive,  fun to watch offense in the NFL. 

He has gone out and gotten almost everything Reid or his DCs have told them they needed. Then they play like shit and its somehow Veachs fault. But when our offense is embarassing everyone, its Reids success and not Veach.  It has to go both ways. 

And this team can absolutely make a deep playoff run if our defense gels. Thats coaches, players, everything.

And you also know damn well Veach is adding to this defense at the deadline or before. He is uber aggressive. I dont want him giving up a top 3 rd pick, but if he does it needs to be a difference maker that's controllable.

[Docbarnabee 225]

I think both hardman and thornhill have graded out better than any player taken from where our first round pick was.  Linebacker would not have impacted our team at all. This was not a particularly strong linebacker draft once you got past the first two guys taken.

[West 6,713]

I think Hardman will be fine.  I think he should be returning kicks not DAT.  DAT has 0-2019 in making a play.

-use him like we used Tyreek early in his career.

w

[Balto 723]

Meh I still think DK Metcalf should of been the pick.  He has played well for Seattle as a rookie.

Metcalf and Hill would of made a great combo for years to come.  

[DefensiveMan 758]

8 minutes ago, Balto said:

Meh I still think DK Metcalf should of been the pick.  He has played well for Seattle as a rookie.

Metcalf and Hill would of made a great combo for years to come.  

DK Metcalf fell so far. A late 1st round pick fell all the way to a late 2nd. He's a good player for sure.

[Mloe68 1,521]

14 hours ago, Balto said:

Meh I still think DK Metcalf should of been the pick.  He has played well for Seattle as a rookie.

Metcalf and Hill would of made a great combo for years to come.  

16 336 2 TDs. Vs. 16. 296. 2 TDs

[Lamardirts 2,114]

17 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Any team that wins the SB these needs everything to line up. And Veach isnt just responsible for building a good defense. He is responsible for building a good ROSTER. His title isnt " general manager of defense". So far the rosters he has assembled have performed quite well.

So yes, Tom has led the district in sales the last 2.5 years. I'm tired of hearing people rip Veach for our crappy defense while giving him no credit for assembling the most explosive,  fun to watch offense in the NFL. 

He has gone out and gotten almost everything Reid or his DCs have told them they needed. Then they play like shit and its somehow Veachs fault. But when our offense is embarassing everyone, its Reids success and not Veach.  It has to go both ways. 

And this team can absolutely make a deep playoff run if our defense gels. Thats coaches, players, everything.

And you also know damn well Veach is adding to this defense at the deadline or before. He is uber aggressive. I dont want him giving up a top 3 rd pick, but if he does it needs to be a difference maker that's controllable.

But is he responsible for the O?  Dorsey drafted Mahomes, signed Schwartz, resigned Kelce, drafted Hill, etc.   Who has Veach brought in?  Hardman and Watkins. He gambled on scrubs up front and overpaid Watkins (like every other FA on this team. Now before you go off on the Mahomes pick I will concede that he would have drafted Mahomes but outside of that this team is less talented by a long shot in comparison to Dorsey’s.   So yeah I’m gonna rip him about the O and deservedly so.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

23 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

But is he responsible for the O?  Dorsey drafted Mahomes, signed Schwartz, resigned Kelce, drafted Hill, etc.   Who has Veach brought in?  Hardman and Watkins. He gambled on scrubs up front and overpaid Watkins (like every other FA on this team. Now before you go off on the Mahomes pick I will concede that he would have drafted Mahomes but outside of that this team is less talented by a long shot in comparison to Dorsey’s.   So yeah I’m gonna rip him about the O and deservedly so.

RIP him about the O? Dude if you are complaining about the leagues 3rd ranked offense, you are really just proving my point and we have nothing left to talk about on this subject. 

It's my 40th birthday. All I want today is a win from my football team, and for people to shut up and enjoy football.  

[sith13 1,746]

50 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

RIP him about the O? Dude if you are complaining about the leagues 3rd ranked offense, you are really just proving my point and we have nothing left to talk about on this subject. 

It's my 40th birthday. All I want today is a win from my football team, and for people to shut up and enjoy football.  

I think the question is building vs inheriting. He inherited everything that's good about this offense as well as a terrible defense. We haven't seen any noticeable improvement on offense ever since he took over either, he made 2 key offensive moves both of which were interestingly WRs and neither helped out. OL is basically the same if not worse as a healthy Morse (like a unicorn) was better than Reiter and even guys like Fulton were better than what we have now. If anything Veach could be considered a liability for this offense which is functioning entirely with pre-Veach players so far with his investments being either useless or non-factor. 

Today is my 36th birthday, at least you have seen more 1st round QBs drafted in your lifetime than I did  Happy birthday.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

58 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

RIP him about the O? Dude if you are complaining about the leagues 3rd ranked offense, you are really just proving my point and we have nothing left to talk about on this subject. 

It's my 40th birthday. All I want today is a win from my football team, and for people to shut up and enjoy football.  

Happy Birthday bro!  I’ll be there in a couple months lol.  But to be fair the construction of the leagues third best offense is more of Dorsey’s doing than anything Veach has done. And yes all I want is a win versus the Donks!  Hope you have a great day bro and enjoy that passage over the hill!

[oldtimer 8,686]

1 hour ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

RIP him about the O? Dude if you are complaining about the leagues 3rd ranked offense, you are really just proving my point and we have nothing left to talk about on this subject. 

It's my 40th birthday. All I want today is a win from my football team, and for people to shut up and enjoy football.  

Happy 40th.. I remember when I turned 40......or do I 

[Mloe68 1,521]

3 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

But is he responsible for the O?  Dorsey drafted Mahomes, signed Schwartz, resigned Kelce, drafted Hill, etc.   Who has Veach brought in?  Hardman and Watkins. He gambled on scrubs up front and overpaid Watkins (like every other FA on this team. Now before you go off on the Mahomes pick I will concede that he would have drafted Mahomes but outside of that this team is less talented by a long shot in comparison to Dorsey’s.   So yeah I’m gonna rip him about the O and deservedly so.

I give Dorsey credit for Kelce, Tyreek (even though he was untouchable by half the teams in the league), a rare good FA contract with Schwartz, Jones and Fish even though T Williams is better. He gets some credit for Mahomes because he initiated trade. That was Veachs guy though and probably how he got the job. 

But consider Dorsey inherited tons of CAP space and a draft where he had the first pick. It’s his drafts right now that should be the cornerstone of this roster. And yet we have 1 starter left from FIVE drafts on defense. He left Veach not only a defense with horribly declining talent but also a CAP disaster he’s had to fix on the fly. 

Not saying Veach isn’t responsible for what looks like a very bad draft in 2018. But he inherited no top 50 picks!  And his first pick that year is hurt. This draft looks MUCH better but reality is we won’t likely see major impact and know until year 2 and beyond. Book is still very much out and time is needed to evaluate him properly there. 

In FA Hitchens looks like a terrible signing. All on Veach and strike one if he doesn’t turn it around fast. Watkins was signed out of necessity with Tyreeks complicated. situation. I think Clark and HB will be cornerstones for new defense that simply needs more talent.

But who was our leading WR and RB in the playoffs last year? 

My point is I’ve got questions about Veach like anyone else. He’s made some clear mistakes but also shown he may be growing into the role. We will see. But there’s no doubt Dorsey put him behind the 8 ball in many ways. And as we’ve seen by Cleveland’s continued dis function despite piles of money spent and tons of early draft picks. It’s Andy Reid that’s the real catalyst here. He just needs a competent scout and money guy that can work with him. Ballard looks like the clear best of the bunch by the way. 
 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

2 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

I give Dorsey credit for Kelce, Tyreek (even though he was untouchable by half the teams in the league), a rare good FA contract with Schwartz, Jones and Fish even though T Williams is better. He gets some credit for Mahomes because he initiated trade. That was Veachs guy though and probably how he got the job. 

But consider Dorsey inherited tons of CAP space and a draft where he had the first pick. It’s his drafts right now that should be the cornerstone of this roster. And yet we have 1 starter left from FIVE drafts on defense. He left Veach not only a defense with horribly declining talent but also a CAP disaster he’s had to fix on the fly. 

Not saying Veach isn’t responsible for what looks like a very bad draft in 2018. But he inherited no top 50 picks!  And his first pick that year is hurt. This draft looks MUCH better but reality is we won’t likely see major impact and know until year 2 and beyond. Book is still very much out and time is needed to evaluate him properly there. 

In FA Hitchens looks like a terrible signing. All on Veach and strike one if he doesn’t turn it around fast. Watkins was signed out of necessity with Tyreeks complicated. situation. I think Clark and HB will be cornerstones for new defense that simply needs more talent.

But who was our leading WR and RB in the playoffs last year? 

My point is I’ve got questions about Veach like anyone else. He’s made some clear mistakes but also shown he may be growing into the role. We will see. But there’s no doubt Dorsey put him behind the 8 ball in many ways. And as we’ve seen by Cleveland’s continued dis function despite piles of money spent and tons of early draft picks. It’s Andy Reid that’s the real catalyst here. He just needs a competent scout and money guy that can work with him. Ballard looks like the clear best of the bunch by the way. 
 

Well Veach was our director of player personnel under Dorsey. So any credit the guy gets for roster construction would be in part due to good work by Veach, wouldnt it?

I'm not arguing that Dorsey isnt a better talent evaluator. As far as strictly identifying talent Dorsey is as good as any in football.  Veach doesnt have his ego, which I like, and hes much stronger with capology. 

So we will see going forward. I understand the concerns. But listening told fans this week, you would have thought we just ended the SEASON with 4 wins. We just ended week 6 with 4 wins.

[Mloe68 1,521]

4 hours ago, sith13 said:

I think the question is building vs inheriting. He inherited everything that's good about this offense as well as a terrible defense. We haven't seen any noticeable improvement on offense ever since he took over either, he made 2 key offensive moves both of which were interestingly WRs and neither helped out. OL is basically the same if not worse as a healthy Morse (like a unicorn) was better than Reiter and even guys like Fulton were better than what we have now. If anything Veach could be considered a liability for this offense which is functioning entirely with pre-Veach players so far with his investments being either useless or non-factor. 

Today is my 36th birthday, at least you have seen more 1st round QBs drafted in your lifetime than I did  Happy birthday.

Damn you guys are young but Happy Birthday to you both!  
Good points about inheriting vs building but keep in mind after 5 drafts this team should be loaded with Dorsey picks. Also not only did Veach inherit a declining defense but also a CAP mess that’s caused him to subtract as much as he’s added. 
Just to early to effectively evaluate Veach because he’s only had 1 full draft to work with and drafted late in both. The 2019 draft success or failure will be huge for him. As will Honey Badger and Frank Clark’s contribution through 2021. At that point you extend him with a Super Bowl ring or fire him. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

19 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Well Veach was our director of player personnel under Dorsey. So any credit the guy gets for roster construction would be in part due to good work by Veach, wouldnt it?

I'm not arguing that Dorsey isnt a better talent evaluator. As far as strictly identifying talent Dorsey is as good as any in football.  Veach doesnt have his ego, which I like, and hes much stronger with apology. 

So we will see going forward. I understand the concerns. But listening told fans this week, you would have thought we just ended the SEASON with 4 wins. We just ended week 6 with 4 wins.

Great points. Dorsey is proving again in Cleveland he’s overmatched by the big picture. I think Veach has a better grasp of the big picture but hasn’t proven himself nearly as adept at scouting. But he deserves more time without any doubt! Just crazy to suggest otherwise. 
 

Happy Birthday brother!

[kkuenn 3,597]

8 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

16 336 2 TDs. Vs. 16. 296. 2 TDs

We know Hardman is 3rd or 4th option here. What is Metcalf? Also snap counts played plus knowing how hard it is as a rookie to pick up Reids system all comes into play. Those stats show we got a good one in Hardman if people were high on Metcalf.

[sith13 1,746]

3 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

Damn you guys are young but Happy Birthday to you both!  
Good points about inheriting vs building but keep in mind after 5 drafts this team should be loaded with Dorsey picks. Also not only did Veach inherit a declining defense but also a CAP mess that’s caused him to subtract as much as he’s added. 
Just to early to effectively evaluate Veach because he’s only had 1 full draft to work with and drafted late in both. The 2019 draft success or failure will be huge for him. As will Honey Badger and Frank Clark’s contribution through 2021. At that point you extend him with a Super Bowl ring or fire him. 

Thanks, I feel old but some make me feel very young

I don't think Dorsey was the definitive answer, he had a lot of shortcomings. Interestingly most of his defensive picks were terrible. Besides Jones, Ford, and Peters we might not even have one worthy of recognition in 5 drafts and 2 of them were just above average. We even cut a 3rd round rookie within months of the draft. His defensive extensions never seemed to be at the right time costing us even more money. On offense he gave meaningless contracts to guys like Fisher (very stupid timing) and LDT (too much money for production). However we are so bad at OL that those guys happen to be 2 of our 3 best players. He was good at filling skill positions with mid to late picks though. 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

9 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

RIP him about the O? Dude if you are complaining about the leagues 3rd ranked offense, you are really just proving my point and we have nothing left to talk about on this subject. 

It's my 40th birthday. All I want today is a win from my football team, and for people to shut up and enjoy football.  

Happy Birthday bro!  I’ll be there in a couple months lol!  Hope you have a great day bro and enjoy that passage over the hill!

[robgar 1,046]

lol when we drafted hardmen I thought 4 - 500 yards, and a touch down or two would be pretty good with reids system....

well dudes got that already. get this Hardman is on pace for 800 yards, and  like 8 touchdowns... so lay off his ass. To top that off he really reminds me of tyreek in his effort... 

man we may be looking at two very very scary recievers for a while.. 

[Docbarnabee 225]

On 10/15/2019 at 3:29 PM, sith13 said:

The WR we drafted has never been anything more than #3 receiver even with two of our starters out. So we reached already for a developmental guy that's not even a position of need. Also I would have definitely picked a lineman even if some consider that to be a reach, anyone starting in the NFL at this point is a lot more valuable than a receiver. Other GMs passing up on guys either mean they don't have a need in the position or aren't good judges of talent to identify starter potential unless they have a bigger need elsewhere. 

Hardman is coming alone nicely. By the time January comes around he will be a much more polished receiver. Teams  are going to be unable to cover our receivers. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

Just need to keep the big boy type receiver then for the red zone catches or catches over the middle.  We get a LG and C next year in FA or draft and this offense will be set up for the future for quite a few years. Should be able to find that #2 TE if one is not developed here soon.  Other thatn a couple line guys really, we can hit FA/draft for defense and get that LB, run stuffing DT and CB. We are really quite young and a lot of the guys are set up for a few years in contracts already. Will be great to have cap space and able to go forward when Mahomes is signed. Only thing is it may leave Jones out of the picture. I would love to see a tag and trade if we cannot sign him for a higher first round pick and more then the next year.

[xen 1,010,220]

Metcalf would not have been as effective with Mahomes.  If all we needed were go routes, Metcalf is fine.  But as soon as we go to Super Patty Scramble Mode you need guys with good COD and that is not Metcalf's forte.  I mean he's downright bottom 10% in the NFL.