Players coach? Defense? Mutually exclusive?

[Chiefswinitall 60]

Question. This is about clubhouse attitude.   Does a good defense need a disciplinarian tough coach?   Can a Players coach like Andy even instill a tough minded defense even with good players? 

 

Just wondering.

[kcchief4lif 910]

I think that is the problem with Andy's style.  It's an awe shucks we'll get em next time approach.  And I think that translates to the team.  Football IMO demands a freaking attitude that Andy doesn't have.

[Calichief 3,016]

17 minutes ago, kcchief4lif said:

I think that is the problem with Andy's style.  It's an awe shucks we'll get em next time approach.  And I think that translates to the team.  Football IMO demands a freaking attitude that Andy doesn't have.

Somewhat. Accountability with his coaches is an issue. How do you sit Pennel? How do you not play Ragland? 
does Andy  pay attention at all on the sidelines? Why doesn’t he run Sherman? So mind bending 

[kcchief4lif 910]

Just now, Calichief said:

Somewhat. Accountability with his coaches is an issue.
does any pay attention at all on the sidelines? Why doesn’t he run Sherman? So mind bending 

That's part of it too.  He sits down with Pat and isn't paying one bit of attention to what is going on with the team as a whole.   No attention to the small things.  Team is constantly piling up the penalties.  

"I gotta do a better job". But he never does.....

Ground hog day.

[kcchief4lif 910]

Did ya see Pete Carrol immediately huddle up his defense as soon as Wilson threw the int in overtime?  I don't think the offense was even off the field.  But that is a coach in command of his team and in tune with the game.

 

[Calichief 3,016]

8 minutes ago, kcchief4lif said:

Did ya see Pete Carrol immediately huddle up his defense as soon as Wilson threw the int in overtime.  I don't think the offense was even off the field.  But that is a coach in command of his team and in tune with the game.

 

Thanks you! 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

I don’t question his offensive acumen.  He’s a genius but his personality doesn’t instill a culture of accountability and disciplined play.   We are that talented team that gets beat by inferior talented yet far more disciplined teams far to often.   

[kcchief4lif 910]

2 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

I don’t question his offensive acumen.  He’s a genius but his personality doesn’t instill a culture of accountability and disciplined play.   We are that talented team that gets beat by inferior talented yet far more disciplined teams far to often.   

Yup....

[sith13 1,746]

I think it goes both ways. A coach needs to be on the players' side in certain situations but should also be ready to light a fire under them when needed. Tough to get that balance in the NFL. Overall I'm pretty sure some players are performing much better due to Reid's friendly attitude but also some are slacking due to the lack of some tough discipline. 

[xen 1,010,220]

8 hours ago, kcchief4lif said:

Did ya see Pete Carrol immediately huddle up his defense as soon as Wilson threw the int in overtime?  I don't think the offense was even off the field.  But that is a coach in command of his team and in tune with the game.

 

Did ya see Pete Carroll 4 years ago when he had a player revolt on the defense cause he was coddling the QB?

[kcchief4lif 910]

1 hour ago, xen said:

Did ya see Pete Carroll 4 years ago when he had a player revolt on the defense cause he was coddling the QB?

Nope missed that.   But guess the question is did he change or make the necessary change?

[xen 1,010,220]

1 minute ago, kcchief4lif said:

Nope missed that.   But guess the question is did he change or make the necessary change?

Players were pissed and left as soon as they could.  Carroll was hypercriticizing everyone but the QB.  Not a good atmosphere.  He still does it.  

[kcchief4lif 910]

47 minutes ago, xen said:

Players were pissed and left as soon as they could.  Carroll was hypercriticizing everyone but the QB.  Not a good atmosphere.  He still does it.  

Those superbowls though!!  

My main point was not that carrol is this perfect coach, but when I saw that it really stuck out to me.  Carrol was on top of his team when that turnover happened. 

I just don't see that from Andy.  And quite possibly could be his issue when it gets down to the end of a tight game and or just the game as whole.   There was a presser this year that something happened on defense towards the end of a game and Andy had NO clue what happened.  He said he would have to review what went down.  Maybe that is why he has such issues with ill advised timeouts and management of the game??

 

[artsy 1,137]

As the great Bill Maas always says...

You are what you emphasize.

Andy is a finesse coach. He has never had a ground and pound attitude. His offenses are based on the West Coast offense.

Smart agile Olinemen that can pass block and move well in space. RBs that can catch out of the backfield. Yada, yada...We all know this.

His teams aren't designed to play smash mouth, run it on 3rd and 2 types of games. This philosophy and style has won Andy a lot of games...but no championships.

Imo, this yrs. KC defense was designed to stop the pass, and be good at playing from a lead.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it seems to me.

 

[kcchief4lif 910]

1 minute ago, artsy said:

Imo, this yrs. KC defense was designed to stop the pass, and be good at playing from a lead.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it seems to me.

 

The secondary seems like it has improved.  However you still have the wart of the final tennessee drive from sunday's game.

[Calichief 3,016]

29 minutes ago, kcchief4lif said:

The secondary seems like it has improved.  However you still have the wart of the final tennessee drive from sunday's game.

Ive been high on the Secondary. Ive praised them in a lot of threads. They were a mess on the final drive. 

[DefensiveMan 758]

33 minutes ago, Calichief said:

Ive been high on the Secondary. Ive praised them in a lot of threads. They were a mess on the final drive. 

Again, probably could have used one of three timeouts to reorganize the defense and give them a breather. Not all on them...coaching. 

[xen 1,010,220]

2 hours ago, artsy said:

As the great Bill Maas always says...

You are what you emphasize.

Andy is a finesse coach. He has never had a ground and pound attitude. His offenses are based on the West Coast offense.

Smart agile Olinemen that can pass block and move well in space. RBs that can catch out of the backfield. Yada, yada...We all know this.

His teams aren't designed to play smash mouth, run it on 3rd and 2 types of games. This philosophy and style has won Andy a lot of games...but no championships.

Imo, this yrs. KC defense was designed to stop the pass, and be good at playing from a lead.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it seems to me.

 

Funny you also don't see a lot of smashmouth teams in the superbowl lately.

[kkuenn 3,597]

Only four teams featured the NFL's top rusher: 1992 Cowboys, 1993 and 1995 Cowboys and 1998 Broncros.

 

Only 2 of the 47 teams lead the league in rushing the 1972 Dolphins and 1985 Bears.

 

Notice this is out of 47 teams, the quickest data I could find as of now. I will look up until now, but honestly I do not believe the Pats. Broncos or the Eagles had the top ranked rushing unit nor rusher since SB 47 was played.

 

[xen 1,010,220]

3 hours ago, kkuenn said:

Only four teams featured the NFL's top rusher: 1992 Cowboys, 1993 and 1995 Cowboys and 1998 Broncros.

 

Only 2 of the 47 teams lead the league in rushing the 1972 Dolphins and 1985 Bears.

 

Notice this is out of 47 teams, the quickest data I could find as of now. I will look up until now, but honestly I do not believe the Pats. Broncos or the Eagles had the top ranked rushing unit nor rusher since SB 47 was played.

 

None of those teams were smashmouth, even if they ran it lots.  Hell the iggles practically used Andy's playbook.

[Mloe68 1,521]

22 hours ago, kcchief4lif said:

I think that is the problem with Andy's style.  It's an awe shucks we'll get em next time approach.  And I think that translates to the team.  Football IMO demands a freaking attitude that Andy doesn't have.

If it requires a different attitude then how does Andy win so many games?

[Mloe68 1,521]

10 hours ago, kcchief4lif said:

The secondary seems like it has improved.  However you still have the wart of the final tennessee drive from sunday's game.

It’s no excuse at all, but I think they thought they had won the game after stopping the Titans on 4th down. MVP will wrap it up and let’s head to the airport.  We looked completely discombobulated when they had to go back out there and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player as gassed as Chris Jones. 

[kcchief4lif 910]

1 hour ago, Mloe68 said:

If it requires a different attitude then how does Andy win so many games?

Maybe he will magically find his way to a Superbowl win???  You would think with all that winning he would finally "do a better job"  Guess we have to wait for the law of averages to finally kick in.   Cause he sure the hell hasn't learned from all the other stupid losses.

Chiefs have waited a Looooooong time for those averages to finally tip their way so what's another decade or so??

[Thegoatee 1,780]

Most teams who have won Super Bowls in the last 40 years had elite QBs or defenses I’d wager. Andy has had neither in KC until Mahomes. McNabb was good, but not elite. Andy’s teams lost a lot of dominance when Jim Johnson passed away. I don’t think those Eagles defenses get enough credit for Andy’s playoff success.

[Mloe68 1,521]

27 minutes ago, kcchief4lif said:

Maybe he will magically find his way to a Superbowl win???  You would think with all that winning he would finally "do a better job"  Guess we have to wait for the law of averages to finally kick in.   Cause he sure the hell hasn't learned from all the other stupid losses.

Chiefs have waited a Looooooong time for those averages to finally tip their way so what's another decade or so??

You didn’t answer my question. How has he won back to back up back division titles, 200 plus wins, six straight winning seasons, 12 playoff wins, 5 conference championship games if a different attitude is required in this league?  Or are you saying it’s only required in games he loses?