Offensive Balance

[sith13 1,746]

1 hour ago, dhitter said:

We had the 3rd highest producing offense in league history last year. This is basically the same offense with Mecole Hardman added. The one difference has been the injuries. Name a single game where we had all our pieces in place. Fisher coming back will be huge but I think we saw last week what a healthy Mahomes is capable of...Penalties cost us a TD, we had a missed xtra point and 2 botched field goals. This is a top tier offense when healthy. The defense is not. If you look a the All 22 film from this past game you will see a lot of undisciplined players not maintaining gap integrity, poor tackling. If they want to not get gassed so bad here is a suggestion. Get off the field on 3rd and long instead of letting a journeyman QB run and truck you for a 1st down.

This is nowhere near the same offense. We were averaging around 25 carries by RBs last year while dealing with similar injuries and unlike this year we were effective including the Williams duo at some point. Right now we are a single dimensional offense which we all know can easily be stopped when it matters. 

We are much worse at interior line and the rushing unit including the playcalls and it's definitely showing. There's no way last year's offense would make any of the games so close in the 4th looking at the situations we have been in this year. 

Reid has never been a run first guy, that's something we all know. However this year he seems to have been a "pass only" guy with some runs thrown in the mix which is a whole new thing for everyone. An interesting note is that we have been outscored in at least 2 quarters during all our losses. So it's clear that our offense can't always keep up. Some of those outscorings occured as 3-0, 6-3, 7-3, 8-0, 20-0, 13-3. So it's clear that this is not a top level offense. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

3 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

That fumble return TD was a huge turning point and gave them life.  So yeah the D laid an egg but the offense pitched in.

And it was on a running play where Williams lack of vision to run into a gaping cutback lane put him and the ball in danger. Who do we want with this ball most of the time, Michael Jordan or BJ Armstrong?  

[Mloe68 1,521]

6 minutes ago, sith13 said:

This is nowhere near the same offense. We were averaging around 25 carries by RBs last year while dealing with similar injuries and unlike this year we were effective including the Williams duo at some point. Right now we are a single dimensional offense which we all know can easily be stopped when it matters. 

We are much worse at interior line and the rushing unit including the playcalls and it's definitely showing. There's no way last year's offense would make any of the games so close in the 4th looking at the situations we have been in this year. 

Reid has never been a run first guy, that's something we all know. However this year he seems to have been a "pass only" guy with some runs thrown in the mix which is a whole new thing for everyone. An interesting note is that we have been outscored in at least 2 quarters during all our losses. So it's clear that our offense can't always keep up. Some of those outscorings occured as 3-0, 6-3, 7-3, 8-0, 20-0, 13-3. So it's clear that this is not a top level offense. 

Teams know Williams tendencies and the MASSIVE downgrade at LT has been a house of cards for the oline. 

[qnet 1,150]

6 hours ago, Okiechief1 said:

The only hope that this ever changes is if Bienemy takes over play calling.   

I've often wondered about that. 

[dhitter 1,424]

1 hour ago, sith13 said:

This is nowhere near the same offense. We were averaging around 25 carries by RBs last year while dealing with similar injuries

Similar injuries? The MVP and best QB in the league, our starting left tackle and the most explosive player in football. Probably our top 3 most important offensive pieces. There is nothing similar about those injuries.

[Calichief 3,016]

7 hours ago, DieHard said:

Our offensive lineman can’t make a living running the rock. Our best skill players are pass catchers. The best player on out team is a gun slinger with a rocket arm. 

I think we would drop from 4.3 ypc to about 2.3 if we tried to pound it. We get 4.3 because people are playing the pass IMO.

We are averaging a Touchdown less this year. The threat of the run isn’t there. Ypc is fine. I can’t put it on the lineman.

[Calichief 3,016]

7 hours ago, FANATIC said:

Exactly 530 yards of offense  460 passing is amazing   who cares how

It matters. Helping our defense matters. Running clock with a lead matters. 

[Calichief 3,016]

4 hours ago, Balto said:

I wouldn't call them the 4 best teams in the NFL

Hence, the word arguably. They are all 4 in the tops. Gb and Ne are in the top 10 in rushing also. 

[Calichief 3,016]

New England ran their way to a super bowl last year with Brady doing Brady when needed.

[sith13 1,746]

1 hour ago, dhitter said:

Similar injuries? The MVP and best QB in the league, our starting left tackle and the most explosive player in football. Probably our top 3 most important offensive pieces. There is nothing similar about those injuries.

We only had Fisher out this year with an injury whereas we had 3 starters at OL miss time with injury. By comparison this is the healthy year. The massive downgrade at the OL is what got Mahomes injured in the first place and it started when our OL was entirely healthy this year. 

This offense is a lot worse than 2018 in pretty much every area. Having Watkins or Hill on the field wouldn't change that and we have just lost a game where everyone but Fisher was healthy on offense. 

[dhitter 1,424]

1 hour ago, sith13 said:

We only had Fisher out this year with an injury whereas we had 3 starters at OL miss time with injury. By comparison this is the healthy year. The massive downgrade at the OL is what got Mahomes injured in the first place and it started when our OL was entirely healthy this year. 

This offense is a lot worse than 2018 in pretty much every area. Having Watkins or Hill on the field wouldn't change that and we have just lost a game where everyone but Fisher was healthy on offense. 

I see what you are saying but I think your conclusions are skewed. How did the offensive line contribute to Mahomes dislocating his knee? Everyone says it was a freak accident except those who are saying the ankle caused Mahomes to fall a certain way, etc. which I think is pure BS. QBs sneak all the time. Brady does it probably 15-20 times a year.

LDT was out most of last year with an injury. Wiley has been banged up a lot. Reiter has had some issues. I'm not gonna argue whether the interior of the line is good or not. They are not. Injuries at key positions has to be a contributing factor as to why the offense hasn't been as good. To say otherwise is just untrue. Not looking to go 15 rounds here. You see it through one set of lenses I see it through another. We agree on some things and not on others. I'm okay with that.

[Holmes4six! 968]

interesting reads and lots of good points. here’s my two cents worth.

offensivley reid needs to run the ball. this is for a variety of reasons such as giving our shitty d rest, fewer penalties ( seems like they are more prominent when pass blocking) field postion. the most important reason that has not been mentioned but mahomes has is we are predictable and so defenses are playing man. last year that was not the case therefore higher output. i keep saying reid needs to go back to what he was doing with moore and not be predicable. put mahomes under center with a full back and two or three TE. change the predictability. 

defensively we have what we have. for some reason there game plan was to limit the big play and sit back and force tannehill into mistakes. what they found out is teams are now in 3rd a,d short situations. they need to sell out and force 3 rd and long (  like they were the previous games) and take your chances. 

if we don’t change we will out quickly and reid is risking a injury to mahomes if he keeps dropping back 45+ times a game. as the title of this thread stated balance and stay committed. some may argue we don’t have the line to run but i think they have t been given a chance to enforce there will. 

looking ahead to monday night chargers are around 25 or so against the run so reid better smarten up. 

 

[Mloe68 1,521]

5 hours ago, Calichief said:

We are averaging a Touchdown less this year. The threat of the run isn’t there. Ypc is fine. I can’t put it on the lineman.

The linemen is where the majority belongs though IMO. To date this is the worst run blocking line we’ve had in a long time. Combine that with average runners who are more adept in space and we get a lot of inconsistency.  

[Mloe68 1,521]

29 minutes ago, Holmes4six! said:

interesting reads and lots of good points. here’s my two cents worth.

offensivley reid needs to run the ball. this is for a variety of reasons such as giving our shitty d rest, fewer penalties ( seems like they are more prominent when pass blocking) field postion. the most important reason that has not been mentioned but mahomes has is we are predictable and so defenses are playing man. last year that was not the case therefore higher output. i keep saying reid needs to go back to what he was doing with moore and not be predicable. put mahomes under center with a full back and two or three TE. change the predictability. 

defensively we have what we have. for some reason there game plan was to limit the big play and sit back and force tannehill into mistakes. what they found out is teams are now in 3rd a,d short situations. they need to sell out and force 3 rd and long (  like they were the previous games) and take your chances. 

if we don’t change we will out quickly and reid is risking a injury to mahomes if he keeps dropping back 45+ times a game. as the title of this thread stated balance and stay committed. some may argue we don’t have the line to run but i think they have t been given a chance to enforce there will. 

looking ahead to monday night chargers are around 25 or so against the run so reid better smarten up. 

 

Should be noted the Chiefs absolutely dominated the time of possession on Sunday by passing it more than any other game. 

[Holmes4six! 968]

2 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

Should be noted the Chiefs absolutely dominated the time of possession on Sunday by passing it more than any other game. 

correct. i’m just saying we are predictable on offense. we need to change it up. 

its interesting when you look at the pats. nothing fancy but the most important t thing they do is first the ball,is,out of brady’s hands quickly which cuts down on penalties. second they force teams to stay in base most of the time and then run 5-7 yd routes and mix in the deep,shot. the biggest thing they do is not make mistakes. it’s simple football. what i don’t get is why we don’t do the same?

[Mloe68 1,521]

1 hour ago, Holmes4six! said:

correct. i’m just saying we are predictable on offense. we need to change it up. 

its interesting when you look at the pats. nothing fancy but the most important t thing they do is first the ball,is,out of brady’s hands quickly which cuts down on penalties. second they force teams to stay in base most of the time and then run 5-7 yd routes and mix in the deep,shot. the biggest thing they do is not make mistakes. it’s simple football. what i don’t get is why we don’t do the same?

The Patriots don’t have the WRs to challenge corners downfield with any consistency or a QB with the arm strength at this point to do it either. It’s our absolute biggest strength both at QB and WR. 
Seth Keysor of the Athletic wrote a good story about a month ago where he made a good case we pass more, not less. 
What it seems like you are suggesting is we go back to Alex Smith offense?

[sith13 1,746]

9 hours ago, dhitter said:

I see what you are saying but I think your conclusions are skewed. How did the offensive line contribute to Mahomes dislocating his knee? Everyone says it was a freak accident except those who are saying the ankle caused Mahomes to fall a certain way, etc. which I think is pure BS. QBs sneak all the time. Brady does it probably 15-20 times a year.

LDT was out most of last year with an injury. Wiley has been banged up a lot. Reiter has had some issues. I'm not gonna argue whether the interior of the line is good or not. They are not. Injuries at key positions has to be a contributing factor as to why the offense hasn't been as good. To say otherwise is just untrue. Not looking to go 15 rounds here. You see it through one set of lenses I see it through another. We agree on some things and not on others. I'm okay with that.

Dislocating the knee is a freak injury that could happen to any player behind any line. The OL-based injury we had to deal with is Mahomes' ankle and the repeated blows to it . 

[sith13 1,746]

3 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

The Patriots don’t have the WRs to challenge corners downfield with any consistency or a QB with the arm strength at this point to do it either. It’s our absolute biggest strength both at QB and WR. 
Seth Keysor of the Athletic wrote a good story about a month ago where he made a good case we pass more, not less. 
What it seems like you are suggesting is we go back to Alex Smith offense?

We could simply go back to 2018. 

[Holmes4six! 968]

On 11/14/2019 at 7:28 PM, Mloe68 said:

The Patriots don’t have the WRs to challenge corners downfield with any consistency or a QB with the arm strength at this point to do it either. It’s our absolute biggest strength both at QB and WR. 
Seth Keysor of the Athletic wrote a good story about a month ago where he made a good case we pass more, not less. 
What it seems like you are suggesting is we go back to Alex Smith offense?

i understand your point. all i’m trying to say is we need a lot more balance. we know we can go 4wide and rip it all over the field so let’s try to mix it up with more heavy set under center formations that defenses have to account for. if that means alex smith sprinkled in so be it.  we knowe can score td in a three or less minute drives i’d like to see more seven or more minute drives where we are wearing out defenses and the clock. with all this being said, i know it’s not our offense that is the issue. however reid needs to use his strength to protect the teams weakness. that’s really why balance is so important for this team. 

 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

On 11/14/2019 at 2:22 PM, Calichief said:

We are averaging a Touchdown less this year. The threat of the run isn’t there. Ypc is fine. I can’t put it on the lineman.

I would beg to differ.  You can put it smack on the useless waste of space Cam Erving.

Really limits what that Offense can do in general.  I've seen countless plays just completely fucked from the start because he's totally useless.

[Calichief 3,016]

21 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

I would beg to differ.  You can put it smack on the useless waste of space Cam Erving.

Really limits what that Offense can do in general.  I've seen countless plays just completely fucked from the start because he's totally useless.

Sure. He sucks. But he’s not the sole reason Andy goes pass happy on the regular. It takes some commitment. And the rpo run shit is not the way to establish it. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

8 minutes ago, Calichief said:

Sure. He sucks. But he’s not the sole reason Andy goes pass happy on the regular. It takes some commitment. And the rpo run shit is not the way to establish it. 

I was answering to the statement that the threat of the run isn't there.  It's not there in large part because the run blocking (see: Cam Erving) is a gigantic liability with a dash of our backs suddenly have dicks for hands at the most opportunistic moments for the opposing squads. 

I wouldn't trust it either at this juncture.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

On 11/14/2019 at 6:54 PM, Mloe68 said:

Who do we want with this ball most of the time, Michael Jordan or BJ Armstrong?  

Neither, they both suck on the football field. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

My question is would they have had pennl inactive of Moore was the qb? I doubt it so they should not have done so with Mahomes either at qb.