Draft Class

[Marleydawg 60]

Mayock and Gruden have deservedly gotten a lot of credit for their draft class.  But what about our Chefs?

Hardman, Thornhill, Saunders, and Fenton have all be major contributors this season.  Thompson even got a little play the last game and looked pretty spry doing it.  Allegrretti is getting the OL redshirt year, perhaps he'll be a player down the line.  And I think you have to include Clark, who has underwhelmed from a stat perspective but I believe has been pretty solid all year.

 

After a slim 2018 draft (Nnadi has been the only contributor from that group; Speaks is hurt, O'Daniel and Watts are the only other ones left), Veach rebounded with some studs that are coming along.  Good to see.

 

 

[jetlord 10,209]

No superstars yet, like Kareem Hunt, but some good contributors and Hardman or Thornhill could become solid starters. Fenton has made a couple of plays recently.  And Allegretti should get a look when the Chiefs clinch the division and a bye week is out of the picture.  Let Matt Moore take the brunt of any whiffs by the OC.   So far a good class, not spectacular. 

[sith13 1,746]

I think Thornhill is definitely the best pick by the Chiefs this year. Instant starter with solid performance for a rookie. Looks to have good upside as well. Fenton had some good plays but not a consistent starter yet, however he has been a nice surprise considering the late pick.

The rest are all question marks that we have to wait and see. Overall I think we get a D in terms of the drafted players but that has been the story for this regime ever since day one. Besides Hunt & Hill starting from day one we never had multiple rookies contributing at a solid level, they seem to focus on future potential rather than short term talent, but we don't seem to be as good in long term evaluation of talent for later picks. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

6 hours ago, sith13 said:

I think Thornhill is definitely the best pick by the Chiefs this year. Instant starter with solid performance for a rookie. Looks to have good upside as well. Fenton had some good plays but not a consistent starter yet, however he has been a nice surprise considering the late pick.

The rest are all question marks that we have to wait and see. Overall I think we get a D in terms of the drafted players but that has been the story for this regime ever since day one. Besides Hunt & Hill starting from day one we never had multiple rookies contributing at a solid level, they seem to focus on future potential rather than short term talent, but we don't seem to be as good in long term evaluation of talent for later picks. 

Wow. I would give a B- . Hardman has done a nice job in a complex system that takes a WR a couple years to learn. 450 yards on only 23 receptions with 5 tds so far is pretty good stats not to mention kick off returns too.

Hill finished his rookie season with 61 receptions for 593 receiving yards and six touchdowns.

 

Thornhill and him have done a great job since day 1 for being rookies. Throw in that it takes a DT a couple years usually to contribute and you have also seen Saunders doing very well rotating in and Fenton doing such a good job that no one has really cared Fuller has been out.

[sith13 1,746]

16 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

Wow. I would give a B- . Hardman has done a nice job in a complex system that takes a WR a couple years to learn. 450 yards on only 23 receptions with 5 tds so far is pretty good stats not to mention kick off returns too.

Hill finished his rookie season with 61 receptions for 593 receiving yards and six touchdowns.

 

Thornhill and him have done a great job since day 1 for being rookies. Throw in that it takes a DT a couple years usually to contribute and you have also seen Saunders doing very well rotating in and Fenton doing such a good job that no one has really cared Fuller has been out.

If it takes a WR 2 years to learn the system then spending multiple picks, let alone as high as 2nd, is a huge mistake. That would simply lower the grade even more. You can teach even an undrafted guy the same things over that time span. 

Hill actually had 24 plays listed as rushes 3 of which ended up in TDs as well as 3 return TDs as a rookie. Overall Hill had 12 TDs with 1 fumble as opposed to Hardman's 5 TDs and 3 fumbles (so far) in a lot less plays. The comparison is basically apples vs rotten apples. 

To be fair expecting Hill-type performance from a rookie isn't realistic. However a multi-pick 2nd round guy who has been active all year long should have more than 37 targets at his position and the targets seem to be going downwards as the year goes along. Hardman has great speed and some overlooked big play potential, which is where almost all his yards and TDs came from but he's way too raw to be considered even an average pick and his big play abilities seem to require way too many circumstances to go his way. BTW he's our #4 WR this year in terms of targets while being active in all games. The pick is a D- at best.

Rather than not caring about Fuller's absence, I think Fenton has been an upgrade over him this year. Even when making mistakes he still seems closer to a decent play than Fuller has been. Thornhill has been solid for a rookie all year long and only getting better. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

44 minutes ago, sith13 said:

If it takes a WR 2 years to learn the system then spending multiple picks, let alone as high as 2nd, is a huge mistake. That would simply lower the grade even more. You can teach even an undrafted guy the same things over that time span. 

Hill actually had 24 plays listed as rushes 3 of which ended up in TDs as well as 3 return TDs as a rookie. Overall Hill had 12 TDs with 1 fumble as opposed to Hardman's 5 TDs and 3 fumbles (so far) in a lot less plays. The comparison is basically apples vs rotten apples. 

To be fair expecting Hill-type performance from a rookie isn't realistic. However a multi-pick 2nd round guy who has been active all year long should have more than 37 targets at his position and the targets seem to be going downwards as the year goes along. Hardman has great speed and some overlooked big play potential, which is where almost all his yards and TDs came from but he's way too raw to be considered even an average pick and his big play abilities seem to require way too many circumstances to go his way. BTW he's our #4 WR this year in terms of targets while being active in all games. The pick is a D- at best.

Rather than not caring about Fuller's absence, I think Fenton has been an upgrade over him this year. Even when making mistakes he still seems closer to a decent play than Fuller has been. Thornhill has been solid for a rookie all year long and only getting better. 

Not a huge mistake. Any rookie would nees to take time to learn this. An undrafted guy would not have the potential Hardman has and to think we could just get these types all the time and make it work is laughable. If so Dieter would be great by now.

 Hell even Mahomes took a year sitting, i doubt that was a mistake. Hardman is learning as Hill did too. I think next year he will show it with another year in this system and learning to clean up his route running etc. Things that Hill himself was raw at too.

 

The only reason Hill lasted past the 2nd round was of his own doing. So saying we took a guy with this potential as to high is not right. I do think he will get more touches and opportunities too. Having Hill here does take away from him at times because Hill is that good.

[sith13 1,746]

7 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

Not a huge mistake. Any rookie would nees to take time to learn this. An undrafted guy would not have the potential Hardman has and to think we could just get these types all the time and make it work is laughable. If so Dieter would be great by now.

 Hell even Mahomes took a year sitting, i doubt that was a mistake. Hardman is learning as Hill did too. I think next year he will show it with another year in this system and learning to clean up his route running etc. Things that Hill himself was raw at too.

 

The only reason Hill lasted past the 2nd round was of his own doing. So saying we took a guy with this potential as to high is not right. I do think he will get more touches and opportunities too. Having Hill here does take away from him at times because Hill is that good.

Not only Hill but Robinson and even Dieter seems to take away from him when the starting duo is out. That being said you cannot really give the draft class a high grade based on hopes and dreams. What you've described is a project player in the 2nd round which is a negative grade by default. If he pans out in the future then he could raise the grade of the draft class but so far what he has accomplished is a negative grade to be realistic. His impact wouldn't be so bad if he was a 3rd day pick. 

[reesebobby 5,662]

7 hours ago, sith13 said:

I think Thornhill is definitely the best pick by the Chiefs this year. Instant starter with solid performance for a rookie. Looks to have good upside as well. Fenton had some good plays but not a consistent starter yet, however he has been a nice surprise considering the late pick.

The rest are all question marks that we have to wait and see. Overall I think we get a D in terms of the drafted players but that has been the story for this regime ever since day one. Besides Hunt & Hill starting from day one we never had multiple rookies contributing at a solid level, they seem to focus on future potential rather than short term talent, but we don't seem to be as good in long term evaluation of talent for later picks. 

Part of the problem with this "regime"s drafting has been that they have been so good overall that they draft about row 25 every year.  In the last 4 drafts they have only had two picks earlier than 46, and they used those two picks on Chris Jones and Mahomes.  With that said, they have drafted Fisher, Kelce, Ford, Peters, Jones, Mahomes, Hill, and Hunt, all impact players that have been the core of us having the most successful run in team history.  That's ignoring KPass, Thonhill, Saunders, Hardman, Robinson, and Fenton who are either average starters to potentially above average.  I don't think you can really in good faith say that a team with likely 4 consecutive division championships and AFCCG loser gets a D in drafting. 

[sith13 1,746]

11 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

Part of the problem with this "regime"s drafting has been that they have been so good overall that they draft about row 25 every year.  In the last 4 drafts they have only had two picks earlier than 46, and they used those two picks on Chris Jones and Mahomes.  With that said, they have drafted Fisher, Kelce, Ford, Peters, Jones, Mahomes, Hill, and Hunt, all impact players that have been the core of us having the most successful run in team history.  That's ignoring KPass, Thonhill, Saunders, Hardman, Robinson, and Fenton who are either average starters to potentially above average.  I don't think you can really in good faith say that a team with likely 4 consecutive division championships and AFCCG loser gets a D in drafting. 

We definitely don't hold on to our picks and it's hurting the draft class. However the overall team performance not getting a boost from relatively early picks simply lowers the draft grade for any team. In an environment where our 2019 draft gets anything above a C what would you give the Raiders? 

We have been doing a much better job with 2nd-3rd tier FAs like Okafor, Abdullah, Breeland, Sean Smith, etc which have been the driving factor for our success rather than limited short term contribution of our rookies. 

[reesebobby 5,662]

20 minutes ago, sith13 said:

We definitely don't hold on to our picks and it's hurting the draft class. However the overall team performance not getting a boost from relatively early picks simply lowers the draft grade for any team. In an environment where our 2019 draft gets anything above a C what would you give the Raiders? 

We have been doing a much better job with 2nd-3rd tier FAs like Okafor, Abdullah, Breeland, Sean Smith, etc which have been the driving factor for our success rather than limited short term contribution of our rookies. 

The Raiders traded Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper for that draft.  And they drafted #4 overall because they were terrible.  When you say that draft class cost you Mack and Cooper, it gives it context.  Ferrell, has been ok, but nothing special for #4 overall.  Jacobs has been great obviously.  Abram played 1 game before getting hurt.  Mullen has started 6 games and has 1 int.  He's no less a question mark than Thornhill.  It looks like a good draft for them, but given what they gave up for it and their draft slot it should have been.  We bitch slapped them twice and they have played a terrible schedule.  I don't think we can say for sure what they have yet.  They have beat some bad bad teams and almost always lost to good teams they played.

If you think we've won the division going on 4 times because of Abdullah, Breeland, Abdullah and Sean Smith and not Mahomes, Kelce, Hill, Hunt, Jones, Peters, Ford etc then we will just have to agree to disagree. 

[sith13 1,746]

2 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

The Raiders traded Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper for that draft.  And they drafted #4 overall because they were terrible.  When you say that draft class cost you Mack and Cooper, it gives it context.  Ferrell, has been ok, but nothing special for #4 overall.  Jacobs has been great obviously.  Abram played 1 game before getting hurt.  Mullen has started 6 games and has 1 int.  He's no less a question mark than Thornhill.  It looks like a good draft for them, but given what they gave up for it and their draft slot it should have been.  We bitch slapped them twice and they have played a terrible schedule.  I don't think we can say for sure what they have yet.  They have beat some bad bad teams and almost always lost to good teams they played.

If you think we've won the division going on 4 times because of Abdullah, Breeland, Abdullah and Sean Smith and not Mahomes, Kelce, Hill, Hunt, Jones, Peters, Ford etc then we will just have to agree to disagree. 

Guys like Kelce, Hill, Hunt, Jones, Peters are all good picks and Mahomes is an awesome pick. Especially guys like Kelce, Hill, Hunt raised the draft grades very high as early as their rookie years. However none of those guys make 2019 draft a good one. If you ask any pro "expert" they will rank our 2017 draft as great just because we found a generational talent that didn't even play a real game in 2017. 

In 2019 we only have Thornhill who's doing a solid job and a bunch of guys who we hope to have good production in the future but we have been wrong before in similar situations.

[dksww 484]

I was critical of Veach and the past 2 drafts earlier this year, but even last year's draft may provide some quality depth down the road and those guys from 2018's class still deserve a chance to show something.

This year's draft is working out perfectly.  

The 2020 draft for KC only holds 5 picks so it will be interesting to see if Veach and KC trade down or just stand pat with 5 picks.

[DieHard 2,061]

It will. Can’t remember the last trade down.  I’l bet it depends on the board.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

7 hours ago, sith13 said:

In 2019 we only have Thornhill who's doing a solid job and a bunch of guys who we hope to have good production in the future but we have been wrong before in similar situations.

Lmao. What an horrible assessment. Thornhill, Hardman, Saunders, Fenton are all key contributors to this team and none have come close to reaching their ceiling. 

Hardman is 6th among rookie WRs in yards and second in TDs. And that's what you call a "negative grade" ?

This class easily gets a C, and depending on what we get from Thompson the rest of the way and the continued development of the names above, it could easily become a B.

Theres no hopes and dreams about it. 4 of our 6 picks are playing well and helping this team win RIGHT NOW. And Thompson has a chance to start doing so this week as well.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

8 hours ago, dksww said:

I was critical of Veach and the past 2 drafts earlier this year, but even last year's draft may provide some quality depth down the road and those guys from 2018's class still deserve a chance to show something.

This year's draft is working out perfectly.  

The 2020 draft for KC only holds 5 picks so it will be interesting to see if Veach and KC trade down or just stand pat with 5 picks.

We are projected to get a 4th round comp pick. We signed HB, but lost both Morse and Nelson to sizable deals.

[sith13 1,746]

10 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Lmao. What an horrible assessment. Thornhill, Hardman, Saunders, Fenton are all key contributors to this team and none have come close to reaching their ceiling. 

Hardman is 6th among rookie WRs in yards and second in TDs. And that's what you call a "negative grade" ?

This class easily gets a C, and depending on what we get from Thompson the rest of the way and the continued development of the names above, it could easily become a B.

Theres no hopes and dreams about it. 4 of our 6 picks are playing well and helping this team win RIGHT NOW. And Thompson has a chance to start doing so this week as well.

By your logic is Metcalf an A+ pick or something?

I love the homer approach, have it myself as well. However the reality is that we picked our #4 WR in 2nd by giving up 2 picks. Unless that player actually comes out as man among boys that's a reach. Hardman has big play ability, especially awesome speed, but besides those plays he hasn't been a consistent target that actually helps us win. He's basically a project player on the active roster who gets a pass for being a rookie. If he was actually the player you touted than Reid & Mahomes would be using him accordingly. He hasn't even been targeted once in 2 games over the last 4 and has 3 receptions in 5 targets in the other two (1 TD + 1 fumble). In reality he's a non-factor so far but hopefully his big play ability will translate to something good down the line. That's why he's in the "hopes & dreams" category.

I'm not even considering the opportunity cost of the pick, spending that pick on a useful player/position would have led to a much better performance on any aspect of the game for us. I was very hopeful about Hardman especially after his decent start to the season but turned into more of an afterthought as the year went on, 27 targets in the first 6 weeks vs 10 in the last 6.

[dksww 484]

15 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

We are projected to get a 4th round comp pick. We signed HB, but lost both Morse and Nelson to sizable deals.

I think that sounds about right. 

[dksww 484]

15 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Lmao. What an horrible assessment. Thornhill, Hardman, Saunders, Fenton are all key contributors to this team and none have come close to reaching their ceiling. 

Hardman is 6th among rookie WRs in yards and second in TDs. And that's what you call a "negative grade" ?

This class easily gets a C, and depending on what we get from Thompson the rest of the way and the continued development of the names above, it could easily become a B.

Theres no hopes and dreams about it. 4 of our 6 picks are playing well and helping this team win RIGHT NOW. And Thompson has a chance to start doing so this week as well.

IMO, Thornhill and Hardman alone make it a B grade.  Emergence of Saunders and Fenton could push it as high as A- and we have Allegretti to develop at C or G.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

8 hours ago, sith13 said:

By your logic is Metcalf an A+ pick or something?

I love the homer approach, have it myself as well. However the reality is that we picked our #4 WR in 2nd by giving up 2 picks. Unless that player actually comes out as man among boys that's a reach. Hardman has big play ability, especially awesome speed, but besides those plays he hasn't been a consistent target that actually helps us win. He's basically a project player on the active roster who gets a pass for being a rookie. If he was actually the player you touted than Reid & Mahomes would be using him accordingly. He hasn't even been targeted once in 2 games over the last 4 and has 3 receptions in 5 targets in the other two (1 TD + 1 fumble). In reality he's a non-factor so far but hopefully his big play ability will translate to something good down the line. That's why he's in the "hopes & dreams" category.

I'm not even considering the opportunity cost of the pick, spending that pick on a useful player/position would have led to a much better performance on any aspect of the game for us. I was very hopeful about Hardman especially after his decent start to the season but turned into more of an afterthought as the year went on, 27 targets in the first 6 weeks vs 10 in the last 6.

So the stats from early in the year just dont count? Is that what you are telling me? Because you are unhappy with how he has produced the last 6 games.

You say you "hope his big play ability will translate to something good down the line". I mean that's clearly already happened for those of us here in the real world. But you are an ala carte fan I guess? You just get to pick and choose which of the big plays count and which dont?

Is Watkins a non factor? Is Robinson? Is Shady? Is Damien Williams? He has more yardage or scores than any of these guys. Are they non factors? 

 

 

[kkuenn 3,597]

Hardman is leading pro bowl vote for kick off returner. Kelce at TE is too.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/news/chiefs-travis-kelce-mecole-hardman-lead-nfl-pro-bowl-voting/

[sith13 1,746]

3 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

So the stats from early in the year just dont count? Is that what you are telling me? Because you are unhappy with how he has produced the last 6 games.

You say you "hope his big play ability will translate to something good down the line". I mean that's clearly already happened for those of us here in the real world. But you are an ala carte fan I guess? You just get to pick and choose which of the big plays count and which dont?

Is Watkins a non factor? Is Robinson? Is Shady? Is Damien Williams? He has more yardage or scores than any of these guys. Are they non factors? 

 

 

Well his stats early in the season aren't that impressive either. I just pointed it out the half split to show how he was regressing on the roster rather than progressing. 27 targets in 6 games (3.5 per game) with the guy he was supposed to replace out with injury, 2 TDs and 1 fumble over that span. With Hill out Hardman never actually been anything higher than #3 in targets with both Robinson or Pringle (or both) getting more looks than him in some of those games. And over the last 6 he doesn't even have a single target in 2 games and only got to 4 once. So rather than becoming a whole new weapon which we have been hoping for he's simply getting left out in the cold. It's a shame as he has big play ability in the open field, the guy has a single target in a whole game where he took it for a TD but I think the fumbles are really demoralizing him as they have been getting a lot of focus with Shady also chipping in.

If we were in a position to ignore year one production from picks Hardman might or any other player with a similar production would probably be easy to overlook but wouldn't get a high grade for our draft because we think he'll be great in the future. Hardman might be a very valuable player in the future but that's when he would have a positive impact on our draft grade for 2019. Right now if you spend a 2nd with a late pick added to a mix for a guy who's buried deep in the depth chart that doesn't bode well for the overall grade, especially with so many holes all over the roster. I realize that Hardman was likely a panic pick due to Hill's situation and looking back at the draft videos Veach was always focused on CBs but that's just something we were caught off guard. 

Regarding the rest I can definitely say that Watkins is a non-factor, if not worse. Last year he was getting quite a bit of double teams from time to time but this year a single DB seems to be enough for him and he's nowhere to be found since the awesome early start. A 2nd round WR should be able to replace him by now. Robinson on the other hand has a major impact IMO. He has been a consistent target for Mahomes that's very well in ball protection and has even been our #1 WR in some games. Hardman is ahead of Robinson in yardage but definitely not on the depth chart or impact. That's probably why both Reid and Mahomes seem to go for him more often as the #3 guy behind Hill and Watkins. The big plays allow Hardman to put up better numbers but that's more of an Eddy Curry situation rather than a consistent production. Shady has more combined yards and as many scores but that's not unusual in Reid's system, not sure where you get the impression that Hardman has better numbers? Damien Williams also has the same total yards with Hardman with 1 less TD and 1 less fumble. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

1 hour ago, sith13 said:

Well his stats early in the season aren't that impressive either. I just pointed it out the half split to show how he was regressing on the roster rather than progressing. 27 targets in 6 games (3.5 per game) with the guy he was supposed to replace out with injury, 2 TDs and 1 fumble over that span. With Hill out Hardman never actually been anything higher than #3 in targets with both Robinson or Pringle (or both) getting more looks than him in some of those games. And over the last 6 he doesn't even have a single target in 2 games and only got to 4 once. So rather than becoming a whole new weapon which we have been hoping for he's simply getting left out in the cold. It's a shame as he has big play ability in the open field, the guy has a single target in a whole game where he took it for a TD but I think the fumbles are really demoralizing him as they have been getting a lot of focus with Shady also chipping in.

If we were in a position to ignore year one production from picks Hardman might or any other player with a similar production would probably be easy to overlook but wouldn't get a high grade for our draft because we think he'll be great in the future. Hardman might be a very valuable player in the future but that's when he would have a positive impact on our draft grade for 2019. Right now if you spend a 2nd with a late pick added to a mix for a guy who's buried deep in the depth chart that doesn't bode well for the overall grade, especially with so many holes all over the roster. I realize that Hardman was likely a panic pick due to Hill's situation and looking back at the draft videos Veach was always focused on CBs but that's just something we were caught off guard. 

Regarding the rest I can definitely say that Watkins is a non-factor, if not worse. Last year he was getting quite a bit of double teams from time to time but this year a single DB seems to be enough for him and he's nowhere to be found since the awesome early start. A 2nd round WR should be able to replace him by now. Robinson on the other hand has a major impact IMO. He has been a consistent target for Mahomes that's very well in ball protection and has even been our #1 WR in some games. Hardman is ahead of Robinson in yardage but definitely not on the depth chart or impact. That's probably why both Reid and Mahomes seem to go for him more often as the #3 guy behind Hill and Watkins. The big plays allow Hardman to put up better numbers but that's more of an Eddy Curry situation rather than a consistent production. Shady has more combined yards and as many scores but that's not unusual in Reid's system, not sure where you get the impression that Hardman has better numbers? Damien Williams also has the same total yards with Hardman with 1 less TD and 1 less fumble. 

Meh, OBJ has less TDs and barely more yards than Hardman. Not hos fault he is not getting looked at more often. Reid just does not seem to rely on rookies all that much at all. As we see he gets his roster set, as he does the o line, and rarely strays from it unless forced to do so with injuries and such. Hell even Watkins continues to start and has done shit lately.

[sith13 1,746]

8 hours ago, kkuenn said:

Meh, OBJ has less TDs and barely more yards than Hardman. Not hos fault he is not getting looked at more often. Reid just does not seem to rely on rookies all that much at all. As we see he gets his roster set, as he does the o line, and rarely strays from it unless forced to do so with injuries and such. Hell even Watkins continues to start and has done shit lately.

Yep it's mostly a Reid thing. Basically any WR coming into his scheme is a project player with a few exceptions here and there. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

On 12/4/2019 at 1:40 AM, sith13 said:

I think Thornhill is definitely the best pick by the Chiefs this year. Instant starter with solid performance for a rookie. Looks to have good upside as well. Fenton had some good plays but not a consistent starter yet, however he has been a nice surprise considering the late pick.

The rest are all question marks that we have to wait and see. Overall I think we get a D in terms of the drafted players but that has been the story for this regime ever since day one. Besides Hunt & Hill starting from day one we never had multiple rookies contributing at a solid level, they seem to focus on future potential rather than short term talent, but we don't seem to be as good in long term evaluation of talent for later picks. 

A D for the Andy Reid regime? Are you nuts!  They drafted the freakin league MVP and started with the 27th pick. They drafted one of the best tight ends in NFL history. One of the top 5 WRs in the NFL. The leagues leading rusher in 2017. One of the top 3 interior pass rushers. And now a safety who's graded out as a top 5 safety in the league over his past 4 games. We've got 4 rookies from last years draft without a first round pick all contributing.

Whats lacked here are LB and Olinemen. Overall a team that wins as much as we do can't possibly get a D as this entire roster outside of punter was built since Andy got here. 

[sith13 1,746]

2 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

A D for the Andy Reid regime? Are you nuts!  They drafted the freakin league MVP and started with the 27th pick. They drafted one of the best tight ends in NFL history. One of the top 5 WRs in the NFL. The leagues leading rusher in 2017. One of the top 3 interior pass rushers. And now a safety who's graded out as a top 5 safety in the league over his past 4 games. We've got 4 rookies from last years draft without a first round pick all contributing.

Whats lacked here are LB and Olinemen. Overall a team that wins as much as we do can't possibly get a D as this entire roster outside of punter was built since Andy got here. 

D is for 2019 not the entire regime. The story has been the same pretty much every season with a couple exceptions. We load up on a lot of promising youngsters most of which don't do much, if at all, as a rookie and some pan out to be solid players going forward. 

I think most of the drafts have lower grades in the first year when looked individually and some of them turn out to be really good ones. Besides 2015 and 2016 we never really had decent production from the rookie class in year one. 2014 was definitely F, 2018 was no different in year one, etc. People focus a lot on Reid's offense taking time to adjust but Sutton's defense seems the same. I don't know if things will change with Spags but this regime has mostly been brutal on rookies so far with only a handful of exceptions. Even the 1st overall pick was a backup.