Will Juan Thornhill come back 100% ??

[sith13 1,746]

3 minutes ago, dksww said:

Dirty Dan will probably stay through his current deal which expires after the 2020 season.

He's one of those players the fan base wants to see gone but ends up surviving throughout his contract. Wouldn't be surprised if he stays another year. 

[TomahawkChop 255]

4 minutes ago, dksww said:

Yes, relax.  The Chiefs take it slow with this type of thing so I think by week 8 or 9 next season he'll be a full 100% to go.

Don't worry if he misses training camp, pre-season and the start of the season next year.

I’m in this camp. He’s young, so he should be on the early side of the return equation. It will have been seven months by training camp - which he will not participate in - but I suspect he’ll be on pup to start the season and likely running with the scout team by the end of September with an eye to return the second quarter of the 2020 season. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

7 minutes ago, sith13 said:

He's one of those players the fan base wants to see gone but ends up surviving throughout his contract. Wouldn't be surprised if he stays another year. 

He’s very effective in the more limited role that Spags has used him (roughly half the snaps).  Concern would be short term he’s gonna have to play more.  His CAP hit at 4.75 isn’t a killer in 2020 but 3.75 of it can be saved by cutting him. I’d say he’s 50-50 maybe leaning higher with Thorns injury. Fuller is the guy who can play FS and every CB position which helps Spags disguise defenses. I’d say odds we resign him just jumped significantly but they will hopefully get another month to evaluate an expanded role. 

[WichitaZRide 321]

With advances in medial rehab, there is no reason to think that a young player won't come back from an ACL injury and eventually get back to 100%.  That said, the Chiefs really like to take their time with injuries like this.  The turnaround time on this kind of injury is typically 9-12 months and even then, there is some adjustment time needed.  If i were the Chiefs, i would not draft a player, but just look for a solid, average to slightly above average vet in free agency.  I'm not looking to use a premium draft pick to replace a guy that will miss at most one season and will still have 2 years left on his contract.  With the way our secondary is trending up, I think that we can mask a downgrade to average at his spot and still look good as a whole.

[Adamixoye 604]

1 hour ago, Mloe68 said:

Justin Houston was by far the crowning glory of failure. Chiefs doctors also had real problems with Jamaal Charles knee later in his career. 

Overall the problem is overstated largely because of the very high profile nature of these three..  You’ve also had some major injuries where stars have returned less than a year later and had big years. Including Jamaal Charles after a torn ACL in 2011 and Eric Berry.in 2012.  

And obviously major props should go out to Rick Burkholder and how he handles Mahomes knee dislocation from the get go. Probably saved our season.  But it’s been a mixed bag.  

Seems to me it's hard to really judge whether we're "good" or "bad" based on the available evidence.  As you note, the high-profile cases play a disproportionate role in our perception.  We may just be unlucky.

Player toughness is also a factor.  Look no further than the Frank Clark situation this year.

[Mloe68 1,521]

57 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

Seems to me it's hard to really judge whether we're "good" or "bad" based on the available evidence.  As you note, the high-profile cases play a disproportionate role in our perception.  We may just be unlucky.

Player toughness is also a factor.  Look no further than the Frank Clark situation this year.

In Houston’s case the doctors completely misdiagnosed the problem and he was sent back out to play which made things even worse. That’s just a massive fail that would cause me to look for second opinions. 
That said the Chiefs don’t have a doctor on staff. They contract that out to University of Kansas Health systems and a team of doctors with very good national reputation. And I know the primary surgeon they use (Dr Barnthouse) has a great reputation outside of football.
Either way our issues really don’t reflect Birkholder and our actual training staff. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

1 hour ago, Mloe68 said:

He’s very effective in the more limited role that Spags has used him (roughly half the snaps).  Concern would be short term he’s gonna have to play more.  His CAP hit at 4.75 isn’t a killer in 2020 but 3.75 of it can be saved by cutting him. I’d say he’s 50-50 maybe leaning higher with Thorns injury. Fuller is the guy who can play FS and every CB position which helps Spags disguise defenses. I’d say odds we resign him just jumped significantly but they will hopefully get another month to evaluate an expanded role. 

Cut him and use money to resign Fuller

[jetlord 10,209]

10 hours ago, DieHard said:

With Ward, Breeland, Fenton, Claiborne and Fuller at CB.
 

And HB, Dan, Watts and Lucas at safety. 

Is it really fair to say it’s lunacy that I think safety is the thinner position group?

Yes, because the only CBs under contract are Ward and Fenton.  Maybe the Chiefs can resign Breeland to a short deal, maybe not.  Fuller is more in the safety mode than CB assuming he comes back..  Hey, I'm not saying there won't be a need at safety.  We don't know when Thornhill will be back and if he'll need time to get back his mojo  But I'd live with the safeties you listed ahead of the two CBs on next year's roster or the pathetic interior line or the dismal LB play.  Gotta have priorities. 

[DieHard 2,061]

Not sure what happens with Fuller. He is up and down, but the guy has talent. If we try to keep him as a safety, he should go to the market as a CB. I think that is his best financial decision. I think he fits good at safety though.

Safety should be a concern going into next year. Spags uses 3 safeties and 2 CBs on most downs. The way he uses HB is close to the line a lot of times. Even if Thornhill was healthy, I would like to see a quality safety to get Dirty Dan off the field for the majority of the snaps. For sure we can’t cut him now, but I don’t want to know he is the number 2 safety going into next year. He is a better situational guy IMO.

Maybe Watts or Lucas set up. I hope.

[Mloe68 1,521]

8 minutes ago, DieHard said:

Not sure what happens with Fuller. He is up and down, but the guy has talent. If we try to keep him as a safety, he should go to the market as a CB. I think that is his best financial decision. I think he fits good at safety though.

Safety should be a concern going into next year. Spags uses 3 safeties and 2 CBs on most downs. The way he uses HB is close to the line a lot of times. Even if Thornhill was healthy, I would like to see a quality safety to get Dirty Dan off the field for the majority of the snaps. For sure we can’t cut him now, but I don’t want to know he is the number 2 safety going into next year. He is a better situational guy IMO.

Maybe Watts or Lucas set up. I hope.

Fuller is only 24 as well. The guy has proven he can flat play in the slot and now has added some free safety to his resume as well. Hard to gage much this year with the injury or last year when he was in Suttons scheme. Hopefully we can get a long look the next month but I'm in for keeping Fuller over Breeland personally. 

[DieHard 2,061]

1 minute ago, Mloe68 said:

Fuller is only 24 as well. The guy has proven he can flat play in the slot and now has added some free safety to his resume as well. Hard to gage much this year with the injury or last year when he was in Suttons scheme. Hopefully we can get a long look the next month but I'm in for keeping Fuller over Breeland personally. 

It will be very interesting what the market will say.

[DieHard 2,061]

On 1/3/2020 at 9:25 AM, sith13 said:

He's one of those players the fan base wants to see gone but ends up surviving throughout his contract. Wouldn't be surprised if he stays another year. 

He will be hear next year. For sure now. At least that’s my guess.

[Thegoatee 1,780]

He will be back. We have to get depth. Maybe not day one or two draft depth, but a throwaway free agent or 6 or 7 round pick is an option.

[xen 1,010,220]

On 1/3/2020 at 11:09 AM, Mloe68 said:

In Houston’s case the doctors completely misdiagnosed the problem and he was sent back out to play which made things even worse. That’s just a massive fail that would cause me to look for second opinions. 
That said the Chiefs don’t have a doctor on staff. They contract that out to University of Kansas Health systems and a team of doctors with very good national reputation. And I know the primary surgeon they use (Dr Barnthouse) has a great reputation outside of football.
Either way our issues really don’t reflect Birkholder and our actual training staff. 

Well there's your problem right there.  KC is using KU doctors.  What, a graduate from Southern Quack Nutcase University wasn't available?  They'd be better off letting LDT be the team doctor.  At least he went to a legitimate school.

[Mloe68 1,521]

1 hour ago, xen said:

Well there's your problem right there.  KC is using KU doctors.  What, a graduate from Southern Quack Nutcase University wasn't available?  They'd be better off letting LDT be the team doctor.  At least he went to a legitimate school.

Leave it to a Mizzou alumni to throw shade at his own school. 😂 Many doctors including the DO who work at the University of Kansas Center for Sports Medicine did some sort of undergrad,  residency or fellowship at Mizzou.  So I guess you are right. Maybe that is the problem. 

[xen 1,010,220]

4 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

Leave it to a Mizzou alumni to throw shade at his own school. 😂 Many doctors including the DO who work at the University of Kansas Center for Sports Medicine did some sort of undergrad,  residency or fellowship at Mizzou.  So I guess you are right. Maybe that is the problem. 

They gave up their diplomas when they went to work at KU.  I don't make the rules I just point out that the state of kansas and everything in it sucks.

Oh btw I think we're coming up for the game

[Mloe68 1,521]

11 minutes ago, xen said:

They gave up their diplomas when they went to work at KU.  I don't make the rules I just point out that the state of kansas and everything in it sucks.

Oh btw I think we're coming up for the game

FYI. The University of Kansas Center for Sports Medicine is located adjacent to the Chiefs practice facility in Missouri.  
Always welcome to tailgate with us if you do. Weather looks really good as of now. 

[Chiefswinitall 60]

I don't think he'll be as good next year.  We better get a FA or draft another lower round guy.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

15 minutes ago, Chiefswinitall said:

I don't think he'll be as good next year.  We better get a FA or draft another lower round guy.

Curious, were you ever a fan e.g. wanted or liked the Thornhill pick? What makes you think he won't be as good? 

[kkuenn 3,597]

16 minutes ago, Chiefswinitall said:

I don't think he'll be as good next year.  We better get a FA or draft another lower round guy.

Why? Many have come back fine from ACL and he is also very young.

[Adamixoye 604]

10 minutes ago, Chiefsfan1963 said:

Curious, were you ever a fan e.g. wanted or liked the Thornhill pick? What makes you think he won't be as good? 

I said this before, the general pattern for these sorts of injuries is that he'll be able to play next year but probably won't be 100% back to himself until 2021.

[Chiefsfan1963 1,101]

9 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

I said this before, the general pattern for these sorts of injuries is that he'll be able to play next year but probably won't be 100% back to himself until 2021.

Thornhill at 85% is still pretty damn good.

[ChiefThunder 153]

Assuming his surgery is in the coming weeks, October will be the 9 month mark. I'd hold off activating Thornhill until December. Thornhill will not be 100% himself until the 2021 season.

[kkuenn 3,597]

15 minutes ago, ChiefThunder said:

Assuming his surgery is in the coming weeks, October will be the 9 month mark. I'd hold off activating Thornhill until December. Thornhill will not be 100% himself until the 2021 season.

6 to 9 months is the norm. Depends on how severe and how he heals up etc. Some have come back before 6 months, some take the whole 9 months and then some. He is young and I am hoping for the 6th month time frame.

 

[Adamixoye 604]

17 minutes ago, Chiefsfan1963 said:

Thornhill at 85%

I'm not saying this wouldn't be a good player, I'm just saying guys in football and basketball take most of a year before they can play again, and then it takes a season before they are fully back to form.