Tag Chris Jones

[xen 1,010,220]

1 minute ago, Balto said:

Reports are that is is 100% healthy and was even gtg last season but decided to not come back because of contract and no chance for playoffs.

Yes I think a 3 year deal for say $40M won't hurt us long term if Green comes up limp

I'd like that better at 1 year for 10m + a team option for another year at 14.  He's sitting on 80m in career earnings.  He is right at that May Want a Ring More Than Anything sweet spot.  3 years is a no thanks for me.

[Mloe68 1,521]

2 hours ago, Balto said:

Would you keep Sammy if he only cost us $14M vs $21M?

If so, why not look at trading Watkins to Cinzy for AJ Green?  Green wants out to a contender......reports say $12-$14M a year is what he’d take.....Bengals would only be paying Watkins $14M not $21M like we are....Bengals get a 26 year WR for thier rookie QB to throw too.

Why would a team trade for a guy that doesn’t show up over half the time and you also have to pay him 21 million for that privilege? I’m not convinced Sammy is motivated. 
Likewise why would we trade for a guy who’s missed more games than he’s played lately and still costs a fortune? 
Bottom line is yes we can create CAP space even in a tight year, but there’s just no value there. 

[Balto 723]

34 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

Why would a team trade for a guy that doesn’t show up over half the time and you also have to pay him 21 million for that privilege? I’m not convinced Sammy is motivated. 
Likewise why would we trade for a guy who’s missed more games than he’s played lately and still costs a fortune? 
Bottom line is yes we can create CAP space even in a tight year, but there’s just no value there. 

Bengals would not be paying the $21M.....They would only be paying $14M for Watkins because KC would be eating the signing bonus regardless if Watkins stays or goes.  Also its hard to know if Watkins shows up half the time or not with KC he was always the 3rd or 4th option.  Going to the Bengals would give him his chance to be the #1 guy and still only 26.

Yes there are some risk factors with Green and thats why he comes at a reduced cost vs $18-$20M like his ceiling demands.  Also gotat kinda throw this past year out cause even though healthy its reported that he had nothing to play for with the Bengals being the worst team in the NFL.

This would be good trade for each team IMO

[azchief21 5,278]

Back to the original thread, let's tag Jones and go win another one of these Super Bowls. That was fun. Still is.

[Balto 723]

20 minutes ago, azchief21 said:

Back to the original thread, let's tag Jones and go win another one of these Super Bowls. That was fun. Still is.

You think he will end up playing next year under the tag?  I see that as a very slim chance my self 

[Biggjliv4 1,292]

He will play, he's been on a 2nd round rookie contract, I doubt he lets $14-16 million set there 

[xen 1,010,220]

26 minutes ago, azchief21 said:

Back to the original thread, let's tag Jones and go win another one of these Super Bowls. That was fun. Still is.

Would be nice but really tough in the modern nfl.  Pats in 03/04 seasons are the only back to back winners in the last 20 years 

[azchief21 5,278]

47 minutes ago, Balto said:

You think he will end up playing next year under the tag?  I see that as a very slim chance my self 

I think he'll take the $15 mil or whatever tag price is and a shot at 2nd SB. After that? Who knows

[Mloe68 1,521]

2 hours ago, xen said:

Would be nice but really tough in the modern nfl.  Pats in 03/04 seasons are the only back to back winners in the last 20 years 

My question is how much of a physical toll does playing 5 weeks longer than over half the league come into play? Or does it. I just remember reading a few articles about how long playoff runs cause some physical ill effects in baseball. And that's just baseball. In any case we've got most of our core locked up for two more years. I'd gladly take two out of three as a backup plan. LOL

[jetlord 10,209]

26 minutes ago, Mloe68 said:

My question is how much of a physical toll does playing 5 weeks longer than over half the league come into play? Or does it. I just remember reading a few articles about how long playoff runs cause some physical ill effects in baseball. And that's just baseball. In any case we've got most of our core locked up for two more years. I'd gladly take two out of three as a backup plan. LOL

Eight of the 32 teams played two weeks extra.  I don't recall many injuries to the Chiefs because of the playoffs.  Do they get tired and does the pressure add a toll?  Maybe, but staying in top shape is a year round job for the NFL players and the Chiefs essentially had two bye weeks before the SB. 

[Mloe68 1,521]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

Eight of the 32 teams played two weeks extra.  I don't recall many injuries to the Chiefs because of the playoffs.  Do they get tired and does the pressure add a toll?  Maybe, but staying in top shape is a year round job for the NFL players and the Chiefs essentially had two bye weeks before the SB. 

All true but again I vividly remember Royals players talking about how the two deep runs really wore them out in 2016. So maybe its a cummulative effect. But the physicality of football and getting a month less off to recover or having to work a month longer period could play some role in teams not repeating. No idea for sure though. Could easily be incorporated into the idea that its possible a team that just won isn't as motivated. Then again I just saw a quote from the Landlord on Twitter which said "We've already moved on to next season. Season 100 will be the year of the Chiefs."

[jetlord 10,209]

2 hours ago, Mloe68 said:

All true but again I vividly remember Royals players talking about how the two deep runs really wore them out in 2016. So maybe its a cummulative effect. But the physicality of football and getting a month less off to recover or having to work a month longer period could play some role in teams not repeating. No idea for sure though. Could easily be incorporated into the idea that its possible a team that just won isn't as motivated. Then again I just saw a quote from the Landlord on Twitter which said "We've already moved on to next season. Season 100 will be the year of the Chiefs."

Maybe the biggest reason for the difficulty of repeating is the fact that winning players get good offers from other teams.  The Chiefs have no way of keeping all the same players for next season.  Probably other winners faced the same issue.  A SB winner, by definition, has a number of players performing at the top.  No way can they all fit under the salary cap as some have rookie contracts up for renewal and others have built in raises or free agents work through a prove it year.  

[Balto 723]

8 hours ago, Biggjliv4 said:

He will play, he's been on a 2nd round rookie contract, I doubt he lets $14-16 million set there 

Not saying he won’t play..

Saying I see long term deal getting in place OR traded if they can’t agree on a price BEFORE he plays the year out under the tag.

[kccrow 529]

I'm a strong proponent of trading Jones. The draft capital obtained "should" allow KC to get better at multiple positions instead of staying good at one. I also think that Jones is a liability in run defense. He's a pass-rushing monster, that much we know, but are the rewards worth the cap and the ability to be more complete? The talent in this draft, in particular, sets up very well for KC to replace the pass-rushing dynamic Jones adds. Albeit, not at the same level but appears at a very functional level. 

[Balto 723]

37 minutes ago, kccrow said:

I'm a strong proponent of trading Jones. The draft capital obtained "should" allow KC to get better at multiple positions instead of staying good at one. I also think that Jones is a liability in run defense. He's a pass-rushing monster, that much we know, but are the rewards worth the cap and the ability to be more complete? The talent in this draft, in particular, sets up very well for KC to replace the pass-rushing dynamic Jones adds. Albeit, not at the same level but appears at a very functional level. 

What about Cards

Cards get:

Jones

LDT

Chiefs get:

Peterson

David Johnson

2020 #40 pick

[jetlord 10,209]

11 minutes ago, Balto said:

What about Cards

Cards get:

Jones

LDT

Chiefs get:

Peterson

David Johnson

2020 #40 pick

Wouldn't the Chiefs be trading one cap problem for another?  The point in trading Jones is to get another starter quality pick plus SHED the $16.4 tag cost.  Peterson and Johnson would expect to get paid here. 

[jetlord 10,209]

53 minutes ago, kccrow said:

I'm a strong proponent of trading Jones. The draft capital obtained "should" allow KC to get better at multiple positions instead of staying good at one. I also think that Jones is a liability in run defense. He's a pass-rushing monster, that much we know, but are the rewards worth the cap and the ability to be more complete? The talent in this draft, in particular, sets up very well for KC to replace the pass-rushing dynamic Jones adds. Albeit, not at the same level but appears at a very functional level. 

Agree 100%

Who do you see as possible trading pardners?  At the least the Chiefs should get a first and fourth from SEA which would be #27 and #130.  They could do better but even that would mean two firsts and seven picks in the first five rounds.  If such a trade happened, then the Chiefs could trade down with their original pick (32 for 38 + 110, Carolina) and get their CB at, say, #38  Murray (LB) and a CB at the top of the second would take much of the pain out of the loss of Jones plus give them the extra picks to get an X receiver and bolster the IOL.

[Balto 723]

15 minutes ago, jetlord said:

Wouldn't the Chiefs be trading one cap problem for another?  The point in trading Jones is to get another starter quality pick plus SHED the $16.4 tag cost.  Peterson and Johnson would expect to get paid here. 

I was answering the post about trading Jones to improve multiple other positions 

[jetlord 10,209]

9 minutes ago, Balto said:

I was answering the post about trading Jones to improve multiple other positions 

Gotcha!  I took Crow's post to mean trade Jones for multiple draft picks which should also improve multiple positions while solving some of the cap problems.  Jones isn't the only issue.  There's Watkins, Sorenson, Fuller, and Breeland.  Also, I can't imagine the Chiefs letting Pennel go.  Ogbah played well and as a FA.

[Balto 723]

1 hour ago, jetlord said:

Agree 100%

Who do you see as possible trading pardners?  At the least the Chiefs should get a first and fourth from SEA which would be #27 and #130.  They could do better but even that would mean two firsts and seven picks in the first five rounds.  If such a trade happened, then the Chiefs could trade down with their original pick (32 for 38 + 110, Carolina) and get their CB at, say, #38  Murray (LB) and a CB at the top of the second would take much of the pain out of the loss of Jones plus give them the extra picks to get an X receiver and bolster the IOL.

I think multiple teams have picks+cap space to pull Jones away.  Just have to decide if we would want cap hell and resign Jones, trade him away for just picks for unproven rookies OR draft pick/s and a starter from a team.

 

[kccrow 529]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

Agree 100%

Who do you see as possible trading pardners?  At the least the Chiefs should get a first and fourth from SEA which would be #27 and #130.  They could do better but even that would mean two firsts and seven picks in the first five rounds.  If such a trade happened, then the Chiefs could trade down with their original pick (32 for 38 + 110, Carolina) and get their CB at, say, #38  Murray (LB) and a CB at the top of the second would take much of the pain out of the loss of Jones plus give them the extra picks to get an X receiver and bolster the IOL.

My realistic shortlist in terms of cap/picks is:

Miami Dolphins
Indianapolis Colts
Tampa Bay Bucs
New York Giants
Washington Redskins (depending on what they do with QB)
New York Jets (would need some decisiveness with FAs retained)
Detroit Lions
Cincinnati Bengals
Philadelphia Eagles
Arizona Cardinals
Seattle Seahawks (same as Jets, would need to be picky with their own FAs)

 

You're not getting a 1 this year out of about half that list (Giants, Redskins, Lions, Bengals, Cardinals) and you're pushing it with the Colts, Bucs, and Jets (all top-15). My target team would be Tampa Bay in terms of getting him out of the conference and the potential for their 1st but it's Arians and that top-15 pick we're talking about. After that, I think it's Miami unless they think they are needing to get to #2.

Overall though, unless you can get Philly or Seattle to bite, you're probably talking a high 2nd this year as your best pick. If you can get that with another 2 next year, that's not a bad deal. Even a 3. 

[Balto 723]

40 minutes ago, kccrow said:

My realistic shortlist in terms of cap/picks is:

Miami Dolphins
Indianapolis Colts
Tampa Bay Bucs
New York Giants
Washington Redskins (depending on what they do with QB)
New York Jets (would need some decisiveness with FAs retained)
Detroit Lions
Cincinnati Bengals
Philadelphia Eagles
Arizona Cardinals
Seattle Seahawks (same as Jets, would need to be picky with their own FAs)

 

You're not getting a 1 this year out of about half that list (Giants, Redskins, Lions, Bengals, Cardinals) and you're pushing it with the Colts, Bucs, and Jets (all top-15). My target team would be Tampa Bay in terms of getting him out of the conference and the potential for their 1st but it's Arians and that top-15 pick we're talking about. After that, I think it's Miami unless they think they are needing to get to #2.

Overall though, unless you can get Philly or Seattle to bite, you're probably talking a high 2nd this year as your best pick. If you can get that with another 2 next year, that's not a bad deal. Even a 3. 

2nd this year and next is pretty bad for Jones.

[sith13 1,746]

I think a 1st alone shouldn't cut it for Jones unless it's a high one. However it all depends on the demand. If we can get a few teams battling for his services we could get a couple high picks over the next 2 drafts and may even get that in 2020.

[kccrow 529]

7 hours ago, Balto said:

2nd this year and next is pretty bad for Jones.

We paid a low 1st and low 2nd for Clark. Two high 2nd's (in all likelihood) is not bad for Jones IMO.

I don't know that you can get a team to bite that picks high with Derrick Brown and Javon Kinlaw in this draft class. They'd be stupid not to see if they could get one of those guys before biting on Jones. Even after that, there are some good 4-3 UTs to be had in this draft with Blacklock, Lynch, Gallimore, Madibuike, and Elliott so teams may not just line up to hand out picks.

If any of the teams picking from 33-41 offered two 2nds, I'd feel pretty confident in next year's 2nd being high again. Indy has picks at 34 and 44 this year. I probably wouldn't turn down Atlanta if they offered both twos this year either at 47 and 55. 

[jetlord 10,209]

8 hours ago, kccrow said:

My realistic shortlist in terms of cap/picks is:

Miami Dolphins
Indianapolis Colts
Tampa Bay Bucs
New York Giants
Washington Redskins (depending on what they do with QB)
New York Jets (would need some decisiveness with FAs retained)
Detroit Lions
Cincinnati Bengals
Philadelphia Eagles
Arizona Cardinals
Seattle Seahawks (same as Jets, would need to be picky with their own FAs)

 

You're not getting a 1 this year out of about half that list (Giants, Redskins, Lions, Bengals, Cardinals) and you're pushing it with the Colts, Bucs, and Jets (all top-15). My target team would be Tampa Bay in terms of getting him out of the conference and the potential for their 1st but it's Arians and that top-15 pick we're talking about. After that, I think it's Miami unless they think they are needing to get to #2.

Overall though, unless you can get Philly or Seattle to bite, you're probably talking a high 2nd this year as your best pick. If you can get that with another 2 next year, that's not a bad deal. Even a 3. 

Thanks for the response.  It's good to have you back on the board in in the discussion.

I chose SEA as an example because they are probably the only team that would give up a first plus more this year.  A high second, along with a second next year, would not be a bad deal.  If Jones is retain and plays under the tag, isn't there a good chance he would be gone the following season anyway?  Unless the cap skyrockets, the Chiefs just can't afford to have so much tied up in the D-line.  At least that's how I see it. BTW: If I were a GM, I'd prefer a proven Jones over taking a chance on a highly rated draft pick. 

What's your opinion on trading down with the first pick to about #38 if the Chiefs feel they can get their CB at that point.  Seems like a no brainer unless they really are set on one certain player.  CAR may be looking for a QB at the end of the first.