Tag Chris Jones

[xen 1,010,220]

10 hours ago, jetlord said:

Trade Jones to SEA for #27 and #138.  Trade #32 to CAR for #38 and #113.  Chiefs have moved up enough in the first to get Queen or Murray, pick a top six CB and IOL in the second, and go BPA with five other picks in the top five rounds to fill WR, RB, second CB, TE, DL for example.  Zero chance of happening.  😉

That's not a crazy trade, ya piker.

How about... Detroit brass, in a desperate bid to save their jobs (remember the owner said playoffs or bust this year) trade 3 for CJ and 32.  

Trade 3 to Miami for the QB of their choice, picking up Miami's 3rd first rd pick to trade back.  Multiple teams bidding so they pay a steep premium.

Trade 5 to Carolina as they jump over San Diego for the 3rd QB.  Rhule wants a young'un to groom and Carolina gets a bit of a discount even with 2 teams bidding cause fuck the Chargers and we get their 3rd, 69th overall.

Stop there and take Simmons or Okudah (in this scenario they're probably both still there) or hell trade back again with Jets as they want their pick of OT's.  Pick up another 3rd, 68th overall.

So far we're at 11, 26, 63, 68, 69 and 96 in top 3 rounds. Or trade back again and target a LB and try to get another 3rd or even a 2nd if you don't care which LB and are willing to trade back just far enough.  

Maybe Philly really wants one of the top WRs.  They'd have their pick at 11, and for dropping to 21 we get back 53 and 127.  That should put you close to where the LBs may start going.  

And voila:  21, 26, 53, 63, 68, 69, 96 127, 138 and 177.  

This scenario brought to you by 'Crazy Shit'.  Remember, "If shit ain't crazy, you don't want it!"

 

[jetlord 10,209]

18 minutes ago, xen said:

That's not a crazy trade, ya piker.

How about... Detroit brass, in a desperate bid to save their jobs (remember the owner said playoffs or bust this year) trade 3 for CJ and 32.  

Trade 3 to Miami for the QB of their choice, picking up Miami's 3rd first rd pick to trade back.  Multiple teams bidding so they pay a steep premium.

Trade 5 to Carolina as they jump over San Diego for the 3rd QB.  Rhule wants a young'un to groom and Carolina gets a bit of a discount even with 2 teams bidding cause fuck the Chargers and we get their 3rd, 69th overall.

Stop there and take Simmons or Okudah (in this scenario they're probably both still there) or hell trade back again with Jets as they want their pick of OT's.  Pick up another 3rd, 68th overall.

So far we're at 11, 26, 63, 68, 69 and 96 in top 3 rounds. Or trade back again and target a LB and try and get another 3rd or a 2nd if you don't care which one and trade back just far enough.  

Maybe Philly really wants one of the top WRs.  They'd have their pick and dropping to 21 and we get 53 and 127.  That should put you close to where the LBs may start going.  

And voila:  21, 26, 53, 63, 68, 69, 96 127, 138 and 177.  

This scenario brought to you by 'Crazy Shit'.  Remember, "If shit ain't crazy, you don't want it!"

 

You need to get out for some fresh air, if there is such a thing in Oklahoma.

[xen 1,010,220]

3 minutes ago, jetlord said:

You need to get out for some fresh air, if there is such a thing in Oklahoma.

 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

2 hours ago, xen said:

That's not a crazy trade, ya piker.

How about... Detroit brass, in a desperate bid to save their jobs (remember the owner said playoffs or bust this year) trade 3 for CJ and 32.  

Trade 3 to Miami for the QB of their choice, picking up Miami's 3rd first rd pick to trade back.  Multiple teams bidding so they pay a steep premium.

Trade 5 to Carolina as they jump over San Diego for the 3rd QB.  Rhule wants a young'un to groom and Carolina gets a bit of a discount even with 2 teams bidding cause fuck the Chargers and we get their 3rd, 69th overall.

Stop there and take Simmons or Okudah (in this scenario they're probably both still there) or hell trade back again with Jets as they want their pick of OT's.  Pick up another 3rd, 68th overall.

So far we're at 11, 26, 63, 68, 69 and 96 in top 3 rounds. Or trade back again and target a LB and try and get another 3rd or a 2nd if you don't care which one and trade back just far enough.  

Maybe Philly really wants one of the top WRs.  They'd have their pick and dropping to 21 and we get 53 and 127.  That should put you close to where the LBs may start going.  

And voila:  21, 26, 53, 63, 68, 69, 96 127, 138 and 177.  

This scenario brought to you by 'Crazy Shit'.  Remember, "If shit ain't crazy, you don't want it!"

 

Had to double check that this was xen and not balto.   Seriously I scrolled back up just to make sure.   Get R Done!

[SEMO 6,811]

11 hours ago, xen said:

That's not a crazy trade, ya piker.

How about... Detroit brass, in a desperate bid to save their jobs (remember the owner said playoffs or bust this year) trade 3 for CJ and 32.  

Trade 3 to Miami for the QB of their choice, picking up Miami's 3rd first rd pick to trade back.  Multiple teams bidding so they pay a steep premium.

Trade 5 to Carolina as they jump over San Diego for the 3rd QB.  Rhule wants a young'un to groom and Carolina gets a bit of a discount even with 2 teams bidding cause fuck the Chargers and we get their 3rd, 69th overall.

Stop there and take Simmons or Okudah (in this scenario they're probably both still there) or hell trade back again with Jets as they want their pick of OT's.  Pick up another 3rd, 68th overall.

So far we're at 11, 26, 63, 68, 69 and 96 in top 3 rounds. Or trade back again and target a LB and try to get another 3rd or even a 2nd if you don't care which LB and are willing to trade back just far enough.  

Maybe Philly really wants one of the top WRs.  They'd have their pick at 11, and for dropping to 21 we get back 53 and 127.  That should put you close to where the LBs may start going.  

And voila:  21, 26, 53, 63, 68, 69, 96 127, 138 and 177.  

This scenario brought to you by 'Crazy Shit'.  Remember, "If shit ain't crazy, you don't want it!"

 

I can see that happening.  

[Balto 723]

10 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

Had to double check that this was xen and not balto.   Seriously I scrolled back up just to make sure.   Get R Done!

[xen 1,010,220]

 

Chris Jones is even more dominant than you think

Sam Hays

4 hours ago

Throughout the NFL, there are highly regarded defensive players in the trenches. Aaron Donald, Von Miller and Khalil Mack are usually the first names that come to mind. Kansas City Chiefs defensive tackle Chris Jones should be in this short-shortlist, yet he doesn’t get much of the same respect beyond hardcore football fans. Even some Chiefs fans don’t give Jones this level of respect. It’s beyond time for that to change.

Jones is one of the most dangerous pass-rushers in the NFL. Since the 2018 regular season, Jones has racked up 132 pressures and 25 sacks, according to Pro Football Focus. He ranks third among interior defenders in pressures and second in sacks in that span. Sounds great, right? Well, those numbers are even more impressive than they look. Jones also plays dramatically fewer pass-rushing snaps than most of his competition.

 

That’s right, Jones is third in pressures and second in sacks among interior defenders since 2018, while barely reaching 1,400 total snaps and fewer than 1,000 pass-rushing snaps. Since 2018, Los Angeles Rams DT Aaron Donald has played 420 more total snaps and 217 more pass-rushing snaps. Philadelphia Eagles DT Fletcher Cox has played 211 more total snaps and 183 more pass-rushing snaps. Former San Francisco 49ers and new Indianapolis Colts DT DeForest Buckner has played 244 more total snaps and 121 more pass-rushing snaps. This gives these other great interior defenders a distinct advantage on Jones when it comes to traditional counting stats. And still, Jones performs at or beyond their standards. He's just that dominant.

To equal out this snap count disparity, let’s change it from a volume-focused stat to an efficiency-focused one, by using pressure rate and sack rate. In the last two seasons, Jones has a 14.0% pressure rate and a 2.7% sack rate. Buckner has a 10.2% pressure rate and a 2.0% sack rate. Cox has a 13.4% pressure rate and a 1.3% sack rate. Donald has a 16.0% pressure rate and a 3.0% sack rate. Donald is well on pace to be the greatest defensive tackle in football history, and Jones is closer to Donald than any other interior defender in football.

Let’s look at some more complex metrics from PFF, specifically Pass Rushing Productivity (PRP) and Wins Above Replacement (WAR). Jones had a 90.9 overall grade and 91.5 pass rushing grade in 2018 and an 86.3 overall grade and 90.0 pass rushing grade in 2019. Jones finished second in pass rushing grade both seasons, only behind Donald. In Pass Rushing Productivity, a metric designed to measure pressure on a per-snap basis with weighting towards sacks, Jones has finished second in both seasons (behind Donald) with PRP ratings of 9.2 in 2018 (Donald: 10.1) and 8.2 in 2019 (Donald: 8.7).

 

Wins Above Replacement, a concept previously popularized in baseball, is a metric that PFF has taken to show the value a football player brings compared to their peers. Jones is fourth in WAR among interior defenders since entering the league in 2016 and third since 2018. Since WAR is a volume metric and Jones has the previously-discussed snap disadvantage, one can safely assume that Jones would be second with an equal distribution of snaps.

There should be no more doubts about what Chris Jones can do. Jones is one of the most effective, valuable defensive linemen in the NFL and he terrorizes offensive lines on a consistent basis. That is part of why he is double-teamed on nearly 70% of pass-rushing snaps, the most among all defensive tackles according to NFL Next Gen Stats. Jones is a dominant force that offenses will have to deal with for years to come. The Chiefs should do everything in their power to make sure that’s in red and gold.

The referenced Pro Football Focus stats are a part of PFF Premium Stats, which comes with a PFF Elite subscription. Go to join.pff.com for more.

 

[jetlord 10,209]

Didn't know that Jones' agent was named Sam Hays.  😉

[xen 1,010,220]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

Didn't know that Jones' agent was named Sam Hays.  😉

No doubt huh.  He's not wrong though. 

The old narrative that Jones is bad against the run can die as well.  

[jetlord 10,209]

It would be good to retain Jones.  It would be bad to retain Jones for $21 million/year with all the other needs and limited cap room.  It would be nice to turn Jones and his high cap hit into a starting LB and a fourth round development player on rookie contracts plus a quality FA or a long term deal with Mahomes.  

[xen 1,010,220]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

It would be good to retain Jones.  It would be bad to retain Jones for $21 million/year with all the other needs and limited cap room.  It would be nice to turn Jones and his high cap hit into a starting LB and a fourth round development player on rookie contracts plus a quality FA or a long term deal with Mahomes.  

All if that with the exception of Mahomes obviously, is not as good as a game changer up the middle.  Watch Derrick Brown get drafted way too high this year based on the possibility that he might be able to rush the passer.  Same with Kinlaw.  Spoiler alert, Kinlaw might but Brown won't.  Btw, Mahomes contract is not dependent on CJ.  The cap can handle both if they're structured to.

[jetlord 10,209]

17 minutes ago, xen said:

All if that with the exception of Mahomes obviously, is not as good as a game changer up the middle.  Watch Derrick Brown get drafted way too high this year based on the possibility that he might be able to rush the passer.  Same with Kinlaw.  Spoiler alert, Kinlaw might but Brown won't.  Btw, Mahomes contract is not dependent on CJ.  The cap can handle both if they're structured to.

You may be right, but we really don't know what the cap numbers will be next year.  Can it rise much if the league takes a COVID-19 hit?  I have always hated to count on money that isn't available yet.  

[Lamardirts 2,114]

I got back and forth on Jones.  He's an incredible player and a dominant force up the middle.  If we pay him 21 million a year we are still a good team and very capable of winning it all next year however if one thing goes wrong then it could turn into a nightmare.   We would have little to no room to manuever and we do have some pretty important pieces coming up in the next year or two like a pair of tackles and a ward and a couple of glaring holes that we have failed to fill long term as in the entire lb corp and db corp.   Sure getting through with Berry's contract and getting Hitchens out the door next year help but they don't solve the problem as we don't have a lot of draft capital and haven't in quite a few years to develop these young guys in time.   

I would say best move is to move on and get the best you can for him this year and keep retooling, but I won't be upset either way.   

[jetlord 10,209]

12 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

I got back and forth on Jones.  He's an incredible player and a dominant force up the middle.  If we pay him 21 million a year we are still a good team and very capable of winning it all next year however if one thing goes wrong then it could turn into a nightmare.   We would have little to no room to manuever and we do have some pretty important pieces coming up in the next year or two like a pair of tackles and a ward and a couple of glaring holes that we have failed to fill long term as in the entire lb corp and db corp.   Sure getting through with Berry's contract and getting Hitchens out the door next year help but they don't solve the problem as we don't have a lot of draft capital and haven't in quite a few years to develop these young guys in time.   

I would say best move is to move on and get the best you can for him this year and keep retooling, but I won't be upset either way.   

I think more winning teams have erred on the side of keeping core players too long than on selling them too cheaply.  The best way to fix the IOL, LB, and CB issues is with draft capital.  FAs of quality are just too expensive.  Look at what the Chiefs had to pay for Clark.  Might work for a single need, but can't build a whole team that way.  I'm in the "trade Jones" camp to get a top draft choice and shed salary.  Look at it this way.  If Jones was a FA, would you bring him in at $21 million/per year or even a one year deal at $16.4 million, or would you rather have a top three LB or CB at rookie price? 

[West 6,713]

I do not waiver on Chris Jones....He is core....

Jones, Clark & HB got us to the promised land.

w

[jetlord 10,209]

2 hours ago, West said:

I do not waiver on Chris Jones....He is core....

Jones, Clark & HB got us to the promised land.

w

So did Mahomes, Hill, Watkins, Kelce, Pennel, Sorenson, Williams, Nnadi, Breeland, Ward, and about 25 other contributors.  The Chiefs can't keep everyone unless they sacrifice the second and third levels of the defense.  This isn't baseball where a few teams can hog all the stars.  If cap was no issue, of course, we'd all want Jones on the roster.  It doesn't work that way and choices have to be made.  Assuming Jones won't sign for less than Clark makes, what do you do with him next year?  Delaying and piling up obligations down the road are a sure fire way to be in cap trouble forever.  Jones on the roster at high cost with Mahoes, Fisher, Schwartz, and Kelce coming up in the next couple of years has to be weighed.  Trade him at his peak, draft good players, and move on. 

[DieHard 2,061]

I think play him under the franchise this year and kick can to next year. I think we need him to repeat the Super Bowl unless somebody like Saunders really steps up.He is almost irreplaceable. But I think this will be his last year here.

[kccrow 529]

I don't really have a problem playing Jones on the tag, but signing him long-term for 21+ million a year is not a good use of cap resources and will handicap the team. I know many that champion re-signing him to a long-term deal mention that the cap is going to explode over the next few years, but the reality is that that means all contracts are going to increase. That's just the nature of the beast and is what happened the last time. Being a realist, a large deal will still be hard to manage within the confines of the cap.

I'd much rather trade now while value is high and not risk an injury year that nets a lesser return. A couple of high draft picks could make for a much more well-rounded team. 

[Calichief 3,016]

2 minutes ago, kccrow said:

I don't really have a problem playing Jones on the tag, but signing him long-term for 21+ million a year is not a good use of cap resources and will handicap the team. I know many that champion re-signing him to a long-term deal mention that the cap is going to explode over the next few years, but the reality is that that means all contracts are going to increase. That's just the nature of the beast and is what happened the last time. Being a realist, a large deal will still be hard to manage within the confines of the cap.

I'd much rather trade now while value is high and not risk an injury year that nets a lesser return. A couple of high draft picks could make for a much more well-rounded team. 

When Clark was signed, before Jones, I think it said a lot. I think they knew Jones would be hard to sign. And they chose the well rounded defensive end over DT. Jmo of course.