Projected Cap space

[Balto 723]

13 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

The main reason is because next year his contract pretty much makes it decision time. We can cut him at a 14 million dollar cap number and 3 million dollar dead cap number, or restructure and try and make that number more manageable. 

He is a solid tackle and deserves to have good guard next to him for once in his career. But it's also not everyday you get an opportunity to free up 11 mill with one move involving a player who is moving out of his prime years.

If they draft a guard early who projects well at tackle long term, I think we will have our answer.

And thats what I see is the problem of the old way of thinking in KC.  We wait till the end and either give a guy a new contract or let walk or trade with lower value because they are a 1 year rental and 1 year older.

We need to shift our thinking in more line like the Patriots.  Trade guys away a year early NOT a year late.  We take that pick we get for Fisher and get our new LT....Then with the savings go out and get a elite OG to play next to him that will help the learning curve.  Then we hope that the rookie early round pick improves over the years better than Fisher.

Fisher  OR 1st round rookie LT + Scherff 

[Spfdchiefsfan 621]

8 minutes ago, Balto said:

And thats what I see is the problem of the old way of thinking in KC.  We wait till the end and either give a guy a new contract or let walk or trade with lower value because they are a 1 year rental and 1 year older.

We need to shift our thinking in more line like the Patriots.  Trade guys away a year early NOT a year late.  We take that pick we get for Fisher and get our new LT....Then with the savings go out and get a elite OG to play next to him that will help the learning curve.  Then we hope that the rookie early round pick improves over the years better than Fisher.

Fisher  OR 1st round rookie LT + Scherff 

you do realize we did not lose a game this year with Fischer as our left tackle.  He is way better than anything we have.  Tackles can play at a high level into mid 30's.  Restructure him, and fix the interior is my opinion.  You want to trust MVPat to a rookie left tackle when we have a proven left tackle that does not cost a ton.  He's  made 1 pro bowl, and there is NO WAY anyone gives up more than a 3rd for him, and I'd be shocked to see that.  

[robgar 1,046]

you people are insane, ...... get rid of a decent left tackle and replace him with the 32nd pick in the draft... your trying to get patrick killed.

[Chiefmanzada 466]

Just now, robgar said:

you people are insane, ...... get rid of a decent left tackle and replace him with the 32nd pick in the draft... your trying to get patrick killed.

yea that ain't happening. 

[robgar 1,046]

anyway fisher's contract looks to me like it is designed to restructure this year.

 

[Balto 723]

15 minutes ago, robgar said:

anyway fisher's contract looks to me like it is designed to restructure this year.

 

I'd be fine with that IF it allows to bring in a top notch guard.

[jetlord 10,209]

1 hour ago, Balto said:

I'd be fine with that IF it allows to bring in a top notch guard.

The Chiefs can find a plug and play IOL on day two of the draft.  Think of Allen, Morse, and Hudson in recent years.  Erving and LDT, gone.  Rankin back and draft an OC/OG on day two and let Allegretti and a day three pick compete with Wiley, Wiz, and Reiter.  

[robgar 1,046]

highest value in the draft at pick 32 currently looks like it might be a reciever

[jetlord 10,209]

43 minutes ago, robgar said:

highest value in the draft at pick 32 currently looks like it might be a reciever

Maybe for the overall draft, but for the Chiefs' board, it's probably a CB or LB.

[xen 1,010,220]

2 hours ago, robgar said:

highest value in the draft at pick 32 currently looks like it might be a reciever

Not really.  1st round receivers talentwise will be available in the 2nd and day 2 receivers will be there on day 3.  Best value will be whomever drops cause some really good players are gonna fall in this draft.

[sith13 1,746]

16 hours ago, robgar said:

highest value in the draft at pick 32 currently looks like it might be a reciever

The value comes with the depth at the position and WR is supposedly very deep in this draft. If that's really the case it would make the position the lowest value pick at #32.

In the end it all comes down to who's available. There's a very good chance that some top WR might drop to late 1st due to depth at the position for later rounds. 

[kccrow 529]

Fisher isn't going anywhere. I don't know why that comes up annually within Chiefs' fandom... He's a very solid left tackle and doesn't command an unreasonable salary for his level of play. It's like the thought process is that "because he isn't Willie Roaf reincarnate, he's trash." Completely foolish.

 

 

[Balto 723]

19 minutes ago, kccrow said:

Fisher isn't going anywhere. I don't know why that comes up annually within Chiefs' fandom... He's a very solid left tackle and doesn't command an unreasonable salary for his level of play. It's like the thought process is that "because he isn't Willie Roaf reincarnate, he's trash." Completely foolish.

 

 

Fisher's cap hit for this year and next are top 5 in the NFL at LT!  No I do not feel he is a top 5 LT but more middle of the pack.  I believe Pat makes him look much better than he is.  Places like PFF and such agree.  How is top 5 contract not unreasonable?

 

He will decline just like everyone...Even Mahomes

 

Do you think he will sign a team friendly deal when his is due?  Will KC have the room to keep him a top 5 paid tackle?  If not they will just have to let him walk and maybe get a comp pick for him.

Why not strike NOW while his value is at the top and replace him now?  With the saved cap you can greatly upgrade your OG or OC spot as well.  

 

Top 5 money is not reasonable for Fish....Thats a fact

 

 

[jetlord 10,209]

12 minutes ago, Balto said:

Fisher's cap hit for this year and next are top 5 in the NFL at LT!  No I do not feel he is a top 5 LT but more middle of the pack.  I believe Pat makes him look much better than he is.  Places like PFF and such agree.  How is top 5 contract not unreasonable?

 

He will decline just like everyone...Even Mahomes

 

Do you think he will sign a team friendly deal when his is due?  Will KC have the room to keep him a top 5 paid tackle?  If not they will just have to let him walk and maybe get a comp pick for him.

Why not strike NOW while his value is at the top and replace him now?  With the saved cap you can greatly upgrade your OG or OC spot as well.  

 

Top 5 money is not reasonable for Fish....Thats a fact

 

 

If what you say is true, then Fisher will test the market and sign a restructured deal with the Chiefs next year.  I think much of the bashing of Fisher is because he was the #1 overall pick in a year when there wasn't a player worthy of #1.  

[Lamardirts 2,114]

Well we were undeafeated with him playing.   Also continuity is a big deal with olinemen.  I think it would be very unwise to replace 3 to possibly 4 spots on the oline in one offseason, especially after that supposed substandard line helped us win the Sb.   Sure it needs upgrading but lets pick 1-2 spots a year to upgrade.   Fisher was injured a good chunk of the year and while he's not elite he is above avg and I like having both bookends experienced in our system.  Lets get OC and one of the guard spots fixed this year then focus on our tackles next offseason.

[oldtimer 8,686]

1 hour ago, Balto said:

Fisher's cap hit for this year and next are top 5 in the NFL at LT! 

 

Top 5 money is not reasonable for Fish....Thats a fact

 

 

technically he's #6 this year ..if it aint broke dont F with it and our LT is not broke ..I think the real brains at 1 Arrowhead Drive  are quite comfortable  with EF  and so in Reid/Veach I trust. 

[DieHard 2,061]

1 hour ago, Balto said:

Fisher's cap hit for this year and next are top 5 in the NFL at LT!  No I do not feel he is a top 5 LT but more middle of the pack.  I believe Pat makes him look much better than he is.  Places like PFF and such agree.  How is top 5 contract not unreasonable?

 

He will decline just like everyone...Even Mahomes

 

Do you think he will sign a team friendly deal when his is due?  Will KC have the room to keep him a top 5 paid tackle?  If not they will just have to let him walk and maybe get a comp pick for him.

Why not strike NOW while his value is at the top and replace him now?  With the saved cap you can greatly upgrade your OG or OC spot as well.  

 

Top 5 money is not reasonable for Fish....Thats a fact

 

 

As pointed out by someone, there are 2 Chiefs teams. 

With Fish 11-0

Without Fish 4-4

What he makes is irrelevant. There is no replacement.

[DieHard 2,061]

Also, started 98 games. 98.

[Balto 723]

2 hours ago, oldtimer said:

technically he's #6 this year ..if it aint broke dont F with it and our LT is not broke ..I think the real brains at 1 Arrowhead Drive  are quite comfortable  with EF  and so in Reid/Veach I trust. 

technically one of those tackles is a RT....I clearly stated LT....BAM

[kccrow 529]

10 hours ago, Balto said:

Fisher's cap hit for this year and next are top 5 in the NFL at LT!  No I do not feel he is a top 5 LT but more middle of the pack.  I believe Pat makes him look much better than he is.  Places like PFF and such agree.  How is top 5 contract not unreasonable?

 

He will decline just like everyone...Even Mahomes

 

Do you think he will sign a team friendly deal when his is due?  Will KC have the room to keep him a top 5 paid tackle?  If not they will just have to let him walk and maybe get a comp pick for him.

Why not strike NOW while his value is at the top and replace him now?  With the saved cap you can greatly upgrade your OG or OC spot as well.  

 

Top 5 money is not reasonable for Fish....Thats a fact

 

 

You don't understand his contract and why it's now top 5 for 2020.

For starters, his overall contract value is not top 5, it's top 13. Fisher is a top 15 LT in this league.

Secondly, and most importantly, his annual cap hit is no fault of his own. Fisher played one of the good boys in 2019 that created space (nearly 6.4 million) for some of our signings by converting his base salary (except for the vet min required) to signing bonus, which inflates his numbers in 2020 and 2021 by $2.2 million per. He would have made $13.0 million in 2020 under his original structure, and I'm more than okay with that given his average per is 12.0 and, had it been the 13.0 it was originally scheduled he would be the 12th highest-paid left tackle.

Getting rid of Fisher because you're not comfortable with his now inflated salary is foolish. 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

18 minutes ago, kccrow said:

You don't understand his contract and why it's now top 5 for 2020.

For starters, his overall contract value is not top 5, it's top 13. Fisher is a top 15 LT in this league.

Secondly, and most importantly, his annual cap hit is no fault of his own. Fisher played one of the good boys in 2019 that created space (nearly 6.4 million) for some of our signings by converting his base salary (except for the vet min required) to signing bonus, which inflates his numbers in 2020 and 2021 by $2.2 million per. He would have made $13.0 million in 2020 under his original structure, and I'm more than okay with that given his average per is 12.0 and, had it been the 13.0 it was originally scheduled he would be the 12th highest-paid left tackle.

Getting rid of Fisher because you're not comfortable with his now inflated salary is foolish. 

Good point can’t have your cake and eat it too.  Can’t kick the van down the road forever.  Gotta pay up eventually.  At least we are paying a good player to play an important position.  

[Balto 723]

3 hours ago, kccrow said:

You don't understand his contract and why it's now top 5 for 2020.

For starters, his overall contract value is not top 5, it's top 13. Fisher is a top 15 LT in this league.

Secondly, and most importantly, his annual cap hit is no fault of his own. Fisher played one of the good boys in 2019 that created space (nearly 6.4 million) for some of our signings by converting his base salary (except for the vet min required) to signing bonus, which inflates his numbers in 2020 and 2021 by $2.2 million per. He would have made $13.0 million in 2020 under his original structure, and I'm more than okay with that given his average per is 12.0 and, had it been the 13.0 it was originally scheduled he would be the 12th highest-paid left tackle.

Getting rid of Fisher because you're not comfortable with his now inflated salary is foolish. 

I’m thinking your the one that really doesn’t understand contracts in general and only look at the numbers.  You can not look at a players overall contract if you have already went by the Cheap years.  If so why not say Watkins is cheap because he didn’t cost $21M and his avg was only $16M soooo we should keep him.

Fishers past years at about $7M a year hit was spot on and now that he is up near $15M it might be time to move on.  A team trading for him would only be on the hook for about $9M which is still reasonable for a middle of the road LT.

Why is it foolish to get rid of Fisher now while he is costing us ATM more than he is worth?  Because we owe it to him?  Because his contract was cheaper so we as a team should sacrifice much needed cap space because it’s the right thing to do?  Sounds like the Peterson years all over again.

Fact of the matter is this year and next year Fisher is hitting out cap more than he is worth, you even agree.  Fishers value will never be higher as it is now.  We should start trading players a year early not a year late OR being forced to get guys inflated contracts because it’s the right thing to do.

“Getting rid of Fisher because You’re not comfortable with his now inflated salary is foolish”.     OMG really?  Your statement is exactly why we should look at trading him and start to find his replacement.

Take emotion out of it man.....can’t keep everyone and getting young cheap talent is how we keep winning.

[Balto 723]

3 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

Good point can’t have your cake and eat it too.  Can’t kick the van down the road forever.  Gotta pay up eventually.  At least we are paying a good player to play an important position.  

But that’s the thing....we can and we don’t have to pay up.  Teams trade inflated contracts every year 

[kccrow 529]

2 hours ago, Balto said:

I’m thinking your the one that really doesn’t understand contracts in general and only look at the numbers.  You can not look at a players overall contract if you have already went by the Cheap years.  If so why not say Watkins is cheap because he didn’t cost $21M and his avg was only $16M soooo we should keep him.

Fishers past years at about $7M a year hit was spot on and now that he is up near $15M it might be time to move on.  A team trading for him would only be on the hook for about $9M which is still reasonable for a middle of the road LT.

Why is it foolish to get rid of Fisher now while he is costing us ATM more than he is worth?  Because we owe it to him?  Because his contract was cheaper so we as a team should sacrifice much needed cap space because it’s the right thing to do?  Sounds like the Peterson years all over again.

Fact of the matter is this year and next year Fisher is hitting out cap more than he is worth, you even agree.  Fishers value will never be higher as it is now.  We should start trading players a year early not a year late OR being forced to get guys inflated contracts because it’s the right thing to do.

“Getting rid of Fisher because You’re not comfortable with his now inflated salary is foolish”.     OMG really?  Your statement is exactly why we should look at trading him and start to find his replacement.

Take emotion out of it man.....can’t keep everyone and getting young cheap talent is how we keep winning.

You really don't know me, so I'll give you time but I'll tell you one thing, I'm the last person that has emotional ties to players.

In any event, we really don't "owe Fisher" anything but I'm paying my franchise LT $9.5 million to play this year and keep Mahomes upright. I'm not paying a WR $14.0 million this year to be the 3rd option in a passing attack whenever he happens to be healthy. Those are my costs this year because the rest are sunk and already paid. Unless you have a top-10 pick in your back pocket to immediately replace Fisher, it is beyond a ridiculous idea to trade him. This team doesn't have a developing player behind him to even remotely consider it otherwise and there isn't a free agent out there you can go get that is remotely close to the level of Eric Fisher.

You want to go out in the draft this year and take a flier on a guy to develop as a future replacement, such as Ezra Cleveland who needs some technique clean-up and serious strength added but has all the athletic ability in the world? Go for it. It's probably a really good idea seeing as Fisher only has 2 years left on his deal.

I don't know what the issue is with Fisher, honestly. He's a good player. Not every player is the next Roaf or the next Ogden, but that doesn't mean they aren't really good players. In today's NFL you pay for good players. DJ Humphries just signed for 3 years, 44.25 million, hasn't been healthy for 23 games in his 4-year career, and is the epitome of inconsistency yet we want to bitch about Fisher. You want to fix issues, fix the revolving doors that play LG, OC, and RG. You want to clear space? Get rid of LDT. Wylie has played every bit as well (and I'm not suggesting that "well" means the level of play is up to par in my eyes) and costs peanuts comparatively. At least you can maintain the level of play and save $5.0 million. 

[oldtimer 8,686]

Crow meet Balto