Projected Cap space

[DieHard 2,061]

Yeah. Pretty sure only one person on earth thinks this is a good idea.

[Balto 723]

6 hours ago, kccrow said:

You really don't know me, so I'll give you time but I'll tell you one thing, I'm the last person that has emotional ties to players.

In any event, we really don't "owe Fisher" anything but I'm paying my franchise LT $9.5 million to play this year and keep Mahomes upright. I'm not paying a WR $14.0 million this year to be the 3rd option in a passing attack whenever he happens to be healthy. Those are my costs this year because the rest are sunk and already paid. Unless you have a top-10 pick in your back pocket to immediately replace Fisher, it is beyond a ridiculous idea to trade him. This team doesn't have a developing player behind him to even remotely consider it otherwise and there isn't a free agent out there you can go get that is remotely close to the level of Eric Fisher.

You want to go out in the draft this year and take a flier on a guy to develop as a future replacement, such as Ezra Cleveland who needs some technique clean-up and serious strength added but has all the athletic ability in the world? Go for it. It's probably a really good idea seeing as Fisher only has 2 years left on his deal.

I don't know what the issue is with Fisher, honestly. He's a good player. Not every player is the next Roaf or the next Ogden, but that doesn't mean they aren't really good players. In today's NFL you pay for good players. DJ Humphries just signed for 3 years, 44.25 million, hasn't been healthy for 23 games in his 4-year career, and is the epitome of inconsistency yet we want to bitch about Fisher. You want to fix issues, fix the revolving doors that play LG, OC, and RG. You want to clear space? Get rid of LDT. Wylie has played every bit as well (and I'm not suggesting that "well" means the level of play is up to par in my eyes) and costs peanuts comparatively. At least you can maintain the level of play and save $5.0 million. 

Getting off on the wrong foot here haha

I love this site and when Scout.com took a dump I looked around at many forums and decided this one is exactly what us Scout people were looking for.  Pretty clean debates with respect for others thoughts.  So this forum has grown with a bunch of us Scout folks and most will tell you I love nothing more than to post about cap space and some pretty stupid low chance trades!  Just what I like to talk about /shrug.

Your right I don't know you but I will say it seems your passionate about "The Numbers" and I'm sure we will have many great discussions going forward!  I did notice that your an accountant and that probably explains a lot.  In my career I work with clients accountants on a regular basis and most are very efficient minded BUT focused on the present.  I deal with more whole picture, long term vision.  So yes our views will probably clash a little haha

I actually really like Fisher and even have his jersey!  From the day we drafted him I always supported the pick.  Not that he is a top tackle in the game but that us as Chief fans, prior to Patty Cakes, got stuck with one of the worst top end talent drafts ever and Fisher was the best of the worst.  I like his skill set and he has improved dramatically but more so when Mahomes came to town.  So yes I think his abilities are greatly inflated by Mahomes but still a avg to above avg LT in the NFL and if the money was right I'd have no issues with Fisher being out LT for years to come!

You talk about paying your LT $9.5M so I'm thinking your taking his $15.231 cap hit number for this year and taking away the $6.3 we would save in cap if traded/cut?  So we would need to ask ourselves if we could replace Fisher for about $6.3M...and I agree that next season would be hard for a rookie tackle to come in and play up to Fish's level year 1.  That again seems your way of thinking in the "present".  My entire argument is based on at some point Fisher will need replaced or give him a contract way above his value.  I say trade him now while his trade value is at its all time high.  I really think we can get a 1st for him and maybe because I like him so much I have a little homerism with those hopes.  If we can't get at least a 1st for him doesn't that tell us something about his skils/contract?  The team that trades for him is only on the hook for about $9M.  If people think his current hit to us at $15M is fine and he is a top LT in the NFL why wouldn't a team with tons of cap want him for only $9M?

My thought would be to replace Fisher with a 1st round pick.  Either ours at #32 or with what ever we get in a trade.  Then sign a vet for our swing tackle and a guy to push our rookie.  Heck even reuniting a guy like Jason Peters with Reid on a 1 year deal would be fine.  Peters still ranks out as a top LT way above Fish.  Then I'd go out into FA and sign the best guard we can get.  I'm a big fan of Brandon Scherff and having him next to our new stud tackle can only help his learning curve.  We spend more than any team in the NFL on tackle but back end at interior OL. I read an article before the Super Bowl that the 49ers will probably focus on the interior rush because the numbers show that Pat is much more effective at avoiding outside pass rushers who shed blocks vs interior pass rushers.  So this plan would allow us to get younger, cheaper and hopefully more talented long term at LT and OG.

I don't agree that it will take a top 10 pick in my back pocket to replace Fisher.  This is a very deep OL class this year and again Fisher is a middle of the road guy.  It's not like we have Trent Williams or such on the roster.

IF we wait like you suggest to draft Fisher's replacement we lose any value in trading him and more than likely will just have to let him walk.  Again why not strike now!

Lets look for the future just not 2020....Our once in a lifetime QB gives us that ability!

 

[Balto 723]

3 hours ago, oldtimer said:

Crow meet Balto

300 × 198

[kkuenn 3,599]

Trade Fish to the Redskins. Get their LT Williams and a pick. Or the same with Peters. Only thing is if Peters can play a full season. We get a pick and a LT in return too. Only way I can see us doing this. The price would be a out the same but we get a pick in the process.

I like Scherff and hope he would come here for a chance at a ring. He also played LT in college so he could do that too if needed.

[oldtimer 8,686]

6 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

Trade Fish to the Redskins. Get their LT Williams and a pick. Or the same with Peters. Only thing is if Peters can play a full season. We get a pick and a LT in return too. Only way I can see us doing this. The price would be a out the same but we get a pick in the process.

I like Scherff and hope he would come here for a chance at a ring. He also played LT in college so he could do that too if needed.

Eagles are letting him (peters) explore FA

[kkuenn 3,599]

5 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Eagles are letting him (peters) explore FA

You're right. Even better. Trade Fish for a pick to redskins. Get Peters and go from there. Peters durability though has to be taken in for account. Rather have Williams and a pick. Redskins get a younger guy under contract.

We get Williams and a pick. Then go get Scherff. Cut LDT and others to make the cap space happen. Then go after LB, CB, WR and TE and supplement with IOL development guy

[kkuenn 3,599]

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/kansas-city-chiefs/

 

Cuts:

 

Sammy Watkins 14 mil

Cam Erving 3.2 mil

Austin Reiter 3.4 mil

LDT 5 mil

Fisher savings 6.3 if traded...

 

Restructure Sorensen.

32 million plus cap space there. Plus what we have now already and whatever we can get from Sorensen restructure. Sign or keep Jones at tagged money and we still have plenty to play with for Scherff or whoever. Do note i looked up cap contract so if i am off, I am sorry.

[kkuenn 3,599]

I hope this can become true. Between what his agent has said and how he feels to making SBs and winning it could help us in the cap space.  Another reason Mahomes is great. He will get his pay though. 

 

https://barbecuesports.com/2020/03/patrick-mahomes-is-basically-saying-fuck-the-money-ill-stick-to-winning-super-bowls-and-i-love-it/kansas-city-chiefs/

[xen 1,010,220]

4 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

I hope this can become true. Between what his agent has said and how he feels to making SBs and winning it could help us in the cap space.  Another reason Mahomes is great. He will get his pay though. 

 

https://barbecuesports.com/2020/03/patrick-mahomes-is-basically-saying-fuck-the-money-ill-stick-to-winning-super-bowls-and-i-love-it/kansas-city-chiefs/

lol that was worth reading for this gif:

[Calichief 3,016]

13 hours ago, Balto said:

I’m thinking your the one that really doesn’t understand contracts in general and only look at the numbers.  You can not look at a players overall contract if you have already went by the Cheap years.  If so why not say Watkins is cheap because he didn’t cost $21M and his avg was only $16M soooo we should keep him.

Fishers past years at about $7M a year hit was spot on and now that he is up near $15M it might be time to move on.  A team trading for him would only be on the hook for about $9M which is still reasonable for a middle of the road LT.

Why is it foolish to get rid of Fisher now while he is costing us ATM more than he is worth?  Because we owe it to him?  Because his contract was cheaper so we as a team should sacrifice much needed cap space because it’s the right thing to do?  Sounds like the Peterson years all over again.

Fact of the matter is this year and next year Fisher is hitting out cap more than he is worth, you even agree.  Fishers value will never be higher as it is now.  We should start trading players a year early not a year late OR being forced to get guys inflated contracts because it’s the right thing to do.

“Getting rid of Fisher because You’re not comfortable with his now inflated salary is foolish”.     OMG really?  Your statement is exactly why we should look at trading him and start to find his replacement.

Take emotion out of it man.....can’t keep everyone and getting young cheap talent is how we keep winning.

Barking up the wrong tree 

[kccrow 529]

6 hours ago, Balto said:

300 × 198

 

As for the debate on Fisher. Let me ask you a pointed question: Who are you drafting at #32 that can replace Eric Fisher, even in 2021?

As deep as an offensive line class may be, there are never more than a handful that can cut it as a LT in the NFL and that statement would be pushing it rather far.

You can tell me if you agree or disagree with this list, but here's my picks for guys I think have the athletic ability in this draft class (doesn't mean they'll pan out).

We aren't touching unless we get a top-15 pick and 3 of these 4 probably go top-10:

Andrew Thomas, Georgia

Jedrick Wills, Alabama

Tristan Wirfs, Iowa

Mekhi Becton, Louisville

That leaves:

5. Austin Jackson, USC (strength issues, pass technique issues)

6. Joshua Jones, Houston (serious pass technique and set speed flaws)

7. Ezra Cleveland, Boise State (major strength issues)

8. Matt Peart, UConn (major strength, hand placement issues)

9. Prince Tego Wanogho, Auburn (serious technique flaws)

In all likelihood, you're probably going to only see one from those 5 who actually cut the mustard at LT. I'd put my money on Cleveland. He has the athleticism and good technique but needs to gain better lower-body and core strength. I don't see Cleveland as a guy that falls to 63. I'd say top half of the 2nd round, so now you're reaching in 1 or you're getting him in a trade of some form.

I think Josh Jones ends up a RT or guard in the NFL because he'll never be able to keep up with speed rushers, but he'll get over-drafted.

Peart and Wanagho look like swing tackle backups and nothing more.

I'm on the fence with Jackson but I think he ends up a solid RT or swing tackle in time but he'll go higher than he probably should. I'd guess, similar to Cleveland, will go early 2nd.

The rest of this class features some nice RT prospects and alot of guards. That's my take. 

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, kccrow said:

 

As for the debate on Fisher. Let me ask you a pointed question: Who are you drafting at #32 that can replace Eric Fisher, even in 2021?

As deep as an offensive line class may be, there are never more than a handful that can cut it as a LT in the NFL and that statement would be pushing it rather far.

You can tell me if you agree or disagree with this list, but here's my picks for guys I think have the athletic ability in this draft class (doesn't mean they'll pan out).

We aren't touching unless we get a top-15 pick and 3 of these 4 probably go top-10:

Andrew Thomas, Georgia

Jedrick Wills, Alabama

Tristan Wirfs, Iowa

Mekhi Becton, Louisville

That leaves:

5. Austin Jackson, USC (strength issues, pass technique issues)

6. Joshua Jones, Houston (serious pass technique and set speed flaws)

7. Ezra Cleveland, Boise State (major strength issues)

8. Matt Peart, UConn (major strength, hand placement issues)

9. Prince Tego Wanogho, Auburn (serious technique flaws)

In all likelihood, you're probably going to only see one from those 5 who actually cut the mustard at LT. I'd put my money on Cleveland. He has the athleticism and good technique but needs to gain better lower-body and core strength. I don't see Cleveland as a guy that falls to 63. I'd say top half of the 2nd round, so now you're reaching in 1 or you're getting him in a trade of some form.

I think Josh Jones ends up a RT or guard in the NFL because he'll never be able to keep up with speed rushers, but he'll get over-drafted.

Peart and Wanagho look like swing tackle backups and nothing more.

I'm on the fence with Jackson but I think he ends up a solid RT or swing tackle in time but he'll go higher than he probably should. I'd guess, similar to Cleveland, will go early 2nd.

The rest of this class features some nice RT prospects and alot of guards. That's my take. 

Yep and Wills was a right tackle only at Bama.  Who knows if he can make the transition.

[Palangi 788]

1 hour ago, xen said:

Yep and Wills was a right tackle only at Bama.  Who knows if he can make the transition.

Same with Wirfs of Iowa.  A RT in college

[kkuenn 3,599]

4 minutes ago, Palangi said:

Same with Wirfs of Iowa.  A RT in college

Wirfs played LT when Jackson went down this year and did just fine.

[xen 1,010,220]

Just now, Palangi said:

Same with Wirfs of Iowa.  A RT in college

True.  I believe Wirfs had a few games at LT and had one hell of a combine but he is probably a right tackle   It probably doesn't matter as much anymore with so many teams putting their best pass rusher up against the right tackles.   Gotta have 2 good ones.

[Palangi 788]

12 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

Wirfs played LT when Jackson went down this year and did just fine.

But why wasn't he the LT?

My guess is Jackson struggles in a right handed stance,  maybe. 

But maybe wirfs struggles in long periods in a left handed stance. 

I was just pointing out he was a RT too

[Palangi 788]

12 minutes ago, xen said:

True.  I believe Wirfs had a few games at LT and had one hell of a combine but he is probably a right tackle   It probably doesn't matter as much anymore with so many teams putting their best pass rusher up against the right tackles.   Gotta have 2 good ones.

I agree.  I think the tackle position is morphing together in importance.  

[kccrow 529]

19 minutes ago, Palangi said:

But why wasn't he the LT?

My guess is Jackson struggles in a right handed stance,  maybe. 

But maybe wirfs struggles in long periods in a left handed stance. 

I was just pointing out he was a RT too

They have a top-10 pick in Alaric Jackson who was manning the left side. No real need to swap parts. I mean, why move guys if you don't need to? Wirfs was good at LT when they moved him over. He's going to get a shot there before a team looks at him as a RT. 

[Palangi 788]

9 minutes ago, kccrow said:

They have a top-10 pick in Alaric Jackson who was manning the left side. No real need to swap parts. I mean, why move guys if you don't need to? Wirfs was good at LT when they moved him over. He's going to get a shot there before a team looks at him as a RT. 

If Jackson was top ten he would have come out this year.  I think most feel wirfs was the better of the two.  

But I agree with his skepticism he showed wirfs can play LT.

[kccrow 529]

20 minutes ago, Palangi said:

If Jackson was top ten he would have come out this year.  I think most feel wirfs was the better of the two.  

But I agree with his skepticism he showed wirfs can play LT.

If it weren't for the knee injury and his desire to finish school, he likely would have. I think Wirfs is a bit better in pass pro right now and Jackson better as a run blocker. Either way, both are very good. I think Jackson made a good decision to return, get healthy, and continue to hone his game. He should definitely end up in the conversation with Sewell and Leatherwood in 2021. 

[Palangi 788]

9 minutes ago, kccrow said:

If it weren't for the knee injury and his desire to finish school, he likely would have. I think Wirfs is a bit better in pass pro right now and Jackson better as a run blocker. Either way, both are very good. I think Jackson made a good decision to return, get healthy, and continue to hone his game. He should definitely end up in the conversation with Sewell and Leatherwood in 2021. 

Don't know much about the Iowa kids personal issues.  

[kkuenn 3,599]

36 minutes ago, kccrow said:

If it weren't for the knee injury and his desire to finish school, he likely would have. I think Wirfs is a bit better in pass pro right now and Jackson better as a run blocker. Either way, both are very good. I think Jackson made a good decision to return, get healthy, and continue to hone his game. He should definitely end up in the conversation with Sewell and Leatherwood in 2021. 

Jackson had a knee sprain the first game.  He will be even better this year. He is actually better in pass pro than Wirfs as he was recognized as one of the better pass pro in the Big Ten. He allowed 2 sacks in 2018 and a 2.5% pass rush rate. He needs to work on his footwork a bit more and core strength.  I use 2018 because he was healthy all year for the season.

 

His run blocking is good but Wirfs was better. Depending on his combine numbers I could actually see him doing well at LT, maybe even move to Guard if his measurements at the combine are not up to par. He does have some issues with edge rushers.

 

Why i also think G might be his best fit as he does well against stunts and recognition of them and passing them off. I guarantee though this will be looked at this year as Ferentz and his son Brian are good O line guys. They play an NFL offense too which helps in the transition.

[kkuenn 3,599]

1 hour ago, Palangi said:

But why wasn't he the LT?

My guess is Jackson struggles in a right handed stance,  maybe. 

But maybe wirfs struggles in long periods in a left handed stance. 

I was just pointing out he was a RT too

From the internet on SI.

 

Wirfs wasn't a full time left tackle because Iowa determined Jackson could only play left tackle and they wanted their best five linemen on the field. Wirfs is the first true freshman to start at offensive tackle during the time Kirk Ferentz has been their head coach.

[Palangi 788]

4 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

From the internet on SI.

 

Wirfs wasn't a full time left tackle because Iowa determined Jackson could only play left tackle and they wanted their best five linemen on the field. Wirfs is the first true freshman to start at offensive tackle during the time Kirk Ferentz has been their head coach.

That makes sense.  Which was one of the reasons I gave 

[kkuenn 3,599]

2 minutes ago, Palangi said:

That makes sense.  Which was one of the reasons I gave 

Yes,  but i was just letting you know which one it was.