First Mock Offseason

[Lamardirts 2,114]

I'll take a stab at this.

Cut Okafor, Watkins, Sorenson, Wilson and Reiter. 

Trade LDT for a 6th rounder

Franchise Chris Jones.  

Extend Wisniewski 2 / 6 million

Extend Ogbah 1/ 7 million

Extend Keith Reaser CD

Extend Marcus Kemp 

This leaves us 20 million in FA plus the draft.   

We deal with Mahomes next year even if a deal gets in place this year it will be little to nothing against the cap to help us defend our title. 

FA - Christian Kirksey 1y / 7 million

FA - Bashaud Breeland 3/24 million 

FA -  Paul Richardson 2/8million

Draft 1. Cesar Ruiz - C

Draft 2b.  Kristian Fulton - CB

Draft 3.  Willie Gay JR - LB

Draft 4.  Antonio Gibson - RB

Draft 5.  Bryan Edwards - WR 

Draft 6a. John Simpson - OG

Draft 6b. Jared Pinkney - TE

 

Fisher, Wis, Ruiz, Rankins, Schwartz    Hill, Richardson, Hardman, Kelce, Williams Mahomes.

Ogbah, Jones, Nnadi, Clark,    Kirksey, Hitchens, Gay       Ward, Fenton, Fulton, Mathieu, Thornhill 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

17 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

I'll take a stab at this.

Cut Okafor, Watkins, Sorenson, Wilson and Reiter. 

Trade LDT for a 6th rounder

Franchise Chris Jones.  

Extend Wisniewski 2 / 6 million

Extend Ogbah 1/ 7 million

Extend Keith Reaser CD

Extend Marcus Kemp 

This leaves us 20 million in FA plus the draft.   

We deal with Mahomes next year even if a deal gets in place this year it will be little to nothing against the cap to help us defend our title. 

FA - Christian Kirksey 1y / 7 million

FA - Bashaud Breeland 3/24 million 

FA -  Paul Richardson 2/8million

Draft 1. Cesar Ruiz - C

Draft 2b.  Kristian Fulton - CB

Draft 3.  Willie Gay JR - LB

Draft 4.  Antonio Gibson - RB

Draft 5.  Bryan Edwards - WR 

Draft 6a. John Simpson - OG

Draft 6b. Jared Pinkney - TE

 

Fisher, Wis, Ruiz, Rankins, Schwartz    Hill, Richardson, Hardman, Kelce, Williams Mahomes.

Ogbah, Jones, Nnadi, Clark,    Kirksey, Hitchens, Gay       Ward, Fenton, Fulton, Mathieu, Thornhill 

Really good offseason. Realistic too. But I think we need a WR with size to replace Watkins. Richardson is another Hardman. 

I dont see how LDT has any trade value, but it would be awesome. 

I dont see Fulton there at the bottom of rd 2 either, but the class is super deep so who knows. In my opinion it's more likely that a guy like Hall or Dantzler is there at that spot.

We traded our original 6th for Lee. So we'd only have 1 through the LDT trade.

 

This is good though. Not too flashy. Those first 4 picks would be a fuckin grand slam. 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

Gibson gonna be a beast.

[jetlord 10,207]

You might switch the first and second draft picks.  Fulton probably won't last until the Chiefs pick in the first but if he doesn't, several other choices, including Terrel should be there  Ruiz might last until #63.  If he doesn't, Cushenberry wouldn't be a bad choice.  It's tough to assess Willie Gay.  He seems to have the talent but would be fit the Chiefs' team?  Maybe HB and Clark could keep him straight, but his history isn't good.  And I agree with the above poster that the Chiefs would probably prefer a big, possession receiver.  Still, that would be a pretty good off season. 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

5 hours ago, jetlord said:

You might switch the first and second draft picks.  Fulton probably won't last until the Chiefs pick in the first but if he doesn't, several other choices, including Terrel should be there  Ruiz might last until #63.  If he doesn't, Cushenberry wouldn't be a bad choice.  It's tough to assess Willie Gay.  He seems to have the talent but would be fit the Chiefs' team?  Maybe HB and Clark could keep him straight, but his history isn't good.  And I agree with the above poster that the Chiefs would probably prefer a big, possession receiver.  Still, that would be a pretty good off season. 

 

I don't think Ruiz is gonna last and I think he could really solidify this Oline, but I would be happy with Cushenberry as well if we needed to grab Fulton earlier.   Willie Gay has insane physical talent and some mocks have him in the 4th but I think his combine is gonna push him up.

I went back and forth on this with Denzel Mims in the first but with keeping Jones and having huge holes at LB and DB couldn't force myself to pull the trigger even though Hill, Mims and Hardman would be incredibly fun to watch.   If that happened we could have 4 sub 4.4 guys on the field at once and then slow poke Kelce also.   But if we could ink Kirksey and Breeland then those needs aren't as pressing and this draft would be the draft to nab a top tier talented guy who is pushed down only because there are so many stud wr's.   Another guy I found intriguing was Donovan People Jones who is a physical freak as well and could be had lower in the draft.  Too bad we didn't get that 4th round comp pick.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

6 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Really good offseason. Realistic too. But I think we need a WR with size to replace Watkins. Richardson is another Hardman. 

I dont see how LDT has any trade value, but it would be awesome. 

I dont see Fulton there at the bottom of rd 2 either, but the class is super deep so who knows. In my opinion it's more likely that a guy like Hall or Dantzler is there at that spot.

We traded our original 6th for Lee. So we'd only have 1 through the LDT trade.

 

This is good though. Not too flashy. Those first 4 picks would be a fuckin grand slam. 

It was another idea I had but changed my mind and forgot to cut out the other 6th rounder.   I think Bryan Edwards could win out a starting job and only falls because of the deep draft and he got hurt.  I wanted to pull the trigger on Denzel Mims in the first but thought locking down center for the next 4-5 years would help the team more.   Can you imagine if Mahomes had a consistent pocket to step into.....dear lord......60 and 6000 might be possible.

[jetlord 10,207]

47 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

 

I don't think Ruiz is gonna last and I think he could really solidify this Oline, but I would be happy with Cushenberry as well if we needed to grab Fulton earlier.   Willie Gay has insane physical talent and some mocks have him in the 4th but I think his combine is gonna push him up.

I went back and forth on this with Denzel Mims in the first but with keeping Jones and having huge holes at LB and DB couldn't force myself to pull the trigger even though Hill, Mims and Hardman would be incredibly fun to watch.   If that happened we could have 4 sub 4.4 guys on the field at once and then slow poke Kelce also.   But if we could ink Kirksey and Breeland then those needs aren't as pressing and this draft would be the draft to nab a top tier talented guy who is pushed down only because there are so many stud wr's.   Another guy I found intriguing was Donovan People Jones who is a physical freak as well and could be had lower in the draft.  Too bad we didn't get that 4th round comp pick.

I like Ruiz as well, but the fall off from him to Cushenberry or a stud OG by waiting to draft IOL in the second is less than the fall off in waiting until #63 to get a much needed CB.  Fulton won't be there at the end of the second.  The top CBs will very likely go in the first 40-45 picks.  It's just for discussion anyway.  No way do the Chiefs maintain the present draft order.  Either they trade Jones and trade one of their first round picks or they trade #32 for a high second and a third or fourth depending on how high the second is, or maybe both.. 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 minute ago, jetlord said:

I like Ruiz as well, but the fall off from him to Cushenberry or a stud OG by waiting to draft IOL in the second is less than the fall off in waiting until #63 to get a much needed CB.  Fulton won't be there at the end of the second.  The top CBs will very likely go in the first 40-45 picks.  It's just for discussion anyway.  No way do the Chiefs maintain the present draft order.  Either they trade Jones and trade one of their first round picks or they trade #32 for a high second and a third or fourth depending on how high the second is, or maybe both.. 

Yeah I agree.  I got back and forth on Jones but it would be hard to pass up a 1st and 3rd and freeing up 20 million in cap space.  He's elite and definitely someone worth 20 million but adding two young rookies and another elite player could set us up for a dominate 3-4 year run.   Someone suggested Arizonas 2nd this year and first next year which would make next year a little tougher but having a potential top to mid 1st rounder next year would be great.   Another one I was thinking of was Miami's 1st round (18th overall) plus a their 2nd 2nd round pick 56.    

1) 18.  Cee Dee Lamb -WR

1) 32.  Kristian Fulton/AJ Terrell DB

2) 56. Raekwon Davis / Justin Madabuike - DT

2) 63. Lloyd Cushenbarry - C

3) Willie Gay Jr - LB

4)  Antonio Gibson - RB

5.)  Amik Robertson - DB

 

Sign Joe Schobert 3/36 million and Christian Kirksey to a one year deal.  We turn one of the least athletic lb corps into one of the most ahtletic.  

Resign Ogbah and Breeland too.  

Fisher, Rankins, Cushenberry, Wisniewski, Schwartz   Allegreti, Reiter, Senat

Hill, Lamb, Hardman, Kelce, Gibson, Mahomes

Clark, Nnadi, Saunders, Ogbah    Kpass, Speaks, Davis

Schobert, Hitchens, Kirksey     Gay/Neimann

Ward, Fulton, Breeland, HB, Thornhill     Fenton, Robertson

 

That receiving corp would be nasty for years to come.

 

 

 

[xen 1,010,219]

I would have severe reservations over Willie Gay.  Is he gonna get mad and fight Mahomes like he did his QB in college?  Combined with the other red flags, teams will have to do their homework on him.

[SEMO 6,811]

1 hour ago, xen said:

I would have severe reservations over Willie Gay.  Is he gonna get mad and fight Mahomes like he did his QB in college?  Combined with the other red flags, teams will have to do their homework on him.

Agree.  He is probably off a lot of draft boards.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

2 hours ago, xen said:

I would have severe reservations over Willie Gay.  Is he gonna get mad and fight Mahomes like he did his QB in college?  Combined with the other red flags, teams will have to do their homework on him.

Yeah just listened to Arrowheadpride's mailbag this week and the guys were saying he's very raw and took horrible angles.  The upside is his athleticism but I'm tired of watching lb's take horrible angles.  Maybe the best way to approach this is with a guy like Christian Kirksey, keeping Damien Wilson and a guy later in the draft.    But yeah we don't want any headaches from a position a developmental guy.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

I've looked at a lot of the mock drafts this week and haven't seen Patrick Queen in hardly any first rounds.   Kinda surprised me after the combine.  I know mock drafts are a dime a dozen but usually when someone like that is so popular among talking heads they get moved up in mock drafts.    Curious what Veach thinks is the more pressing position or has the most positional value a potential cornerstone at lb or db.   Last year he went cheap at both positions and we found a way to win a sb but can't imagine we want to try that again.

[xen 1,010,219]

44 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

I've looked at a lot of the mock drafts this week and haven't seen Patrick Queen in hardly any first rounds.   Kinda surprised me after the combine.  I know mock drafts are a dime a dozen but usually when someone like that is so popular among talking heads they get moved up in mock drafts.    Curious what Veach thinks is the more pressing position or has the most positional value a potential cornerstone at lb or db.   Last year he went cheap at both positions and we found a way to win a sb but can't imagine we want to try that again.

Yeah Queen is all over the place and I can see that.  Limited time as a starter plus he's a little light in the pants.  But had a great not good year and would probably test well if he hadn't hammy'd the combine.

I saw Kenneth Murray didn't participate in the OK pro day yesterday due to his combine hammy.  That may push both guys down a bit but I doubt it would too much as the tape is good.

The only thing I'm sure about with this LB group is Isaiah Simmons will go somewhere from 3 to top 15.   I would say top 5 but we've seen bigger versatile coverage guys like Derwin James get pushed down the draft the last few years so who knows.  

[kkuenn 3,597]

1 hour ago, Lamardirts said:

Yeah just listened to Arrowheadpride's mailbag this week and the guys were saying he's very raw and took horrible angles.  The upside is his athleticism but I'm tired of watching lb's take horrible angles.  Maybe the best way to approach this is with a guy like Christian Kirksey, keeping Damien Wilson and a guy later in the draft.    But yeah we don't want any headaches from a position a developmental guy.

I think Hitchens in the thumper role with Wilson and Kirksey for a year would do just fine. Draft for development. Next year go after a FA, draft and see who to keep as all 3 would be easily cut or let go to FA again for Kirksey.

[jetlord 10,207]

4 hours ago, xen said:

I would have severe reservations over Willie Gay.  Is he gonna get mad and fight Mahomes like he did his QB in college?  Combined with the other red flags, teams will have to do their homework on him.

I agree.  The Chiefs don't need another Peters poisoning the well.  If the staff does due diligence, maybe they can get through to the guy, but it's a risk.  Taking  risk on Hill paid off.  Trusting Hunt didn't.  We have no way of knowing. 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, kkuenn said:

I think Hitchens in the thumper role with Wilson and Kirksey for a year would do just fine. Draft for development. Next year go after a FA, draft and see who to keep as all 3 would be easily cut or let go to FA again for Kirksey.

All this hinges on what we do with Jones.  If we trade him for a low 1st and 3rd then I could see us using that 15-20 we saved on a LB like Schobert and a DB or IOL.   I keep going back and forth.  Last week I was firmly in the keep Jones camp but the more I think about it I've swapped sides.   He is an unbelievable talent and he makes special plays but he also freelances a good bit too which puts the rest of our D in bad situations.   Add a couple picks in the top 100 and free up 15-20 million for another top tier FA or a couple big time upgrades on our team would be huge.    

[oldtimer 8,683]

14 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

All this hinges on what we do with Jones.  If we trade him for a low 1st and 3rd then I could see us using that 15-20 we saved on a LB like Schobert and a DB or IOL.   I keep going back and forth.  Last week I was firmly in the keep Jones camp but the more I think about it I've swapped sides.   He is an unbelievable talent and he makes special plays but he also freelances a good bit too which puts the rest of our D in bad situations.   Add a couple picks in the top 100 and free up 15-20 million for another top tier FA or a couple big time upgrades on our team would be huge.    

to my knowledge that was the rap on him last year..not sure if it applies this year

[Lamardirts 2,114]

8 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

to my knowledge that was the rap on him last year..not sure if it applies this year

Maybe not as much but even he made the comment about Spags would be on his tale about it, so yeah I think its still there a little.   Look, I won't be upset if we keep him he makes our Dline very scary and it won't take much to upgrade our lb corp so by default we could be even better on D and when you consider we finally have a defensive staff that is and can develop guys the future looks bright.  Nnadi, Saunders, Thornhill, Kpass, Ward, Fenton all improved last year and then throw in wildcards like Darius Harris and Breeland Speaks to pair with Clark and HB we could easily be a good bit better this year.  Should be an exciting offseason, just wish we had some more picks.

[kkuenn 3,597]

I have to trust KC higher on this. We have been burnt lately with Berry and Houston. If the price is right we have to trade him. The savings and the ability to fix 2 or 3 wholes with draft and FA is huge. We cant pay everyone and have to make tough choices like this.

 

We did pretty well with the DT position when he was down. Getting Pennel signed is a must if Jones goes. Need to see about speaks too. I do think we have a pretty deep DL if Jones leaves.

 

On the flip side if he stays and we can make it work I am happy too!

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

8 hours ago, xen said:

I would have severe reservations over Willie Gay.  Is he gonna get mad and fight Mahomes like he did his QB in college?  Combined with the other red flags, teams will have to do their homework on him.

Yeah he was viewed as a likely late rounder or UDFA prior to the combine from what I read.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Yeah he was viewed as a likely late rounder or UDFA prior to the combine from what I read.

I'd take a flyer on him as a udfa.

[kccrow 529]

I'd literally throw up in my mouth if this team spent a 3rd round pick on Gay, and you're not the first person I've seen mock him there. He wasn't even a draftable prospect until his underwear olympics showing. He's a guy you MAYBE take in the 5th or 6th and hope you can pull his head out of his ass and develop into something. On the field though, there just isn't enough there to warrant a day 2 pick. Hell, there isn't enough there to warrant a pick period. Personally, I wouldn't draft the kid. If he's a UDFA, maybe I give him a shot.

I do think someone takes a flier on Antonio Gibson in the third and, despite what pundits seem to think, I see him as a WR in the NFL. That's really where he made his living in college and I just don't think he has enough to be an NFL back. That skill set though, as a WR, is kind of scary.

Back to FA... If there are two players I think Chiefs fans have been overvaluing this offseason it would be Mike Pennel and Stefen Wisniewski... Let's really put it into perspective where these guys were at last season before KC swooped in: Doing nothing. Both were sitting on their asses hoping a team needed help. So, their value was not much. Suddenly you have guys expecting that both will command 3-4 million per year to re-sign. I call horseshit. If you can't get either of those guys on a 1-year vet min deal, let em go for greener pastures. Neither are all that great or bring all that much to the table that you can't get with another similar 1-year vet min guy. 

I am not a fan of cutting Wilson at all. He was our only competent LB. I'd be pissed if that happens. He's a solid starting SAM. Kirksey isn't really the same type of player and let's not forget that Kirksey has been injured for 23 games the past 2 seasons, which is the entire reason Cleveland cut him to begin with. 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

4 hours ago, kccrow said:

I'd literally throw up in my mouth if this team spent a 3rd round pick on Gay, and you're not the first person I've seen mock him there. He wasn't even a draftable prospect until his underwear olympics showing. He's a guy you MAYBE take in the 5th or 6th and hope you can pull his head out of his ass and develop into something. On the field though, there just isn't enough there to warrant a day 2 pick. Hell, there isn't enough there to warrant a pick period. Personally, I wouldn't draft the kid. If he's a UDFA, maybe I give him a shot.

I do think someone takes a flier on Antonio Gibson in the third and, despite what pundits seem to think, I see him as a WR in the NFL. That's really where he made his living in college and I just don't think he has enough to be an NFL back. That skill set though, as a WR, is kind of scary.

Back to FA... If there are two players I think Chiefs fans have been overvaluing this offseason it would be Mike Pennel and Stefen Wisniewski... Let's really put it into perspective where these guys were at last season before KC swooped in: Doing nothing. Both were sitting on their asses hoping a team needed help. So, their value was not much. Suddenly you have guys expecting that both will command 3-4 million per year to re-sign. I call horseshit. If you can't get either of those guys on a 1-year vet min deal, let em go for greener pastures. Neither are all that great or bring all that much to the table that you can't get with another similar 1-year vet min guy. 

I am not a fan of cutting Wilson at all. He was our only competent LB. I'd be pissed if that happens. He's a solid starting SAM. Kirksey isn't really the same type of player and let's not forget that Kirksey has been injured for 23 games the past 2 seasons, which is the entire reason Cleveland cut him to begin with. 

You dont think Gibson has enough to play RB in the NFL? Enough what?

Your assessment of Pennel is inaccurate. He graded out extremely well the year prior in NY against the run and pass. This is a player who should not have been available,  and is absolutely worth more than the bet minimum.

Kirksey wasnt just cut because of injuries. He was cut because of his cap number as well. They actually tried to renegotiate his salary and retain him. 

[xen 1,010,219]

4 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

You dont think Gibson has enough to play RB in the NFL? Enough what?

Your assessment of Pennel is inaccurate. He graded out extremely well the year prior in NY against the run and pass. This is a player who should not have been available,  and is absolutely worth more than the bet minimum.

Kirksey wasnt just cut because of injuries. He was cut because of his cap number as well. They actually tried to renegotiate his salary and retain him. 

Kirksey was a combination of injuries, salary and Mack Wilson playing well for a 5th round pick.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

I mentioned Kirksey because situations like that usually warrant a cheaper contract and or a prove it deal.  In our cap situation. We have to take some flyers on ya like that and he at least has shown the ability to play at a high level.  You are right though he has injury concerns but so did Breland.  I trust our medical team to find out if he’s worth the risk.