Handswarmer 645 Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Interesting....now is the debate over good drafting, retention (via a winning culture) or shrewd FA pickups? https://www.nfl.com/videos/ranking-nfl-teams-by-most-homegrown-talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Yep Cincinnati has got it figured out! Handswarmer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamardirts 2,114 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Well the Bengals were tied for first but I counted more than 18 guys on our team that we drafted. Are udfa not considered in this? The Ravens do a great job of nabbing guys for their system. What amazes me is they are almost always a good team in t he playoffs which means their picks are top 10 year in and year out, yet they end up drafting studs. I think we finally have an organization all on the same page now and we finally are in the same conversation but we definitely don’t have the longevity yet. Only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamardirts 2,114 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 FAs can definitely help but always relying on FAs puts you in the “catch lightning in a bottle” category not in a “build a dynasty” category. Got draft well and also have coaches that can develop players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,598 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 40 minutes ago, Lamardirts said: FAs can definitely help but always relying on FAs puts you in the “catch lightning in a bottle” category not in a “build a dynasty” category. Got draft well and also have coaches that can develop players. Counting on the draft can be just as bad too. Need to supplement with good FAs and hit on picks. The Browns are always top 10 even top 5 and multiple picks in the 1st round yet were one of the bottom teams. I think we have the foundation now and keep getting that one or two good FA now and then and let the high contracts go when needed. We also did not have as many high picks due to trades for Smith, Clark and other layer roynd picks like Ragland, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 10 hours ago, xen said: Yep Cincinnati has got it figured out! Cleveland too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 10 hours ago, Lamardirts said: FAs can definitely help but always relying on FAs puts you in the “catch lightning in a bottle” category not in a “build a dynasty” category. Got draft well and also have coaches that can develop players. Agreed 9 hours ago, kkuenn said: Counting on the draft can be just as bad too. Need to supplement with good FAs and hit on picks. The Browns are always top 10 even top 5 and multiple picks in the 1st round yet were one of the bottom teams. I think we have the foundation now and keep getting that one or two good FA now and then and let the high contracts go when needed. We also did not have as many high picks due to trades for Smith, Clark and other layer roynd picks like Ragland, etc. Its a combination of all three that is key Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 NFL is too QB oriented to actually groom homegrown players for success. It's always nice to have as it makes the sustainable success much easier but not really mandatory as it used to be in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted July 1, 2020 Author Share Posted July 1, 2020 On 6/28/2020 at 11:41 AM, sith13 said: NFL is too QB oriented to actually groom homegrown players for success. It's always nice to have as it makes the sustainable success much easier but not really mandatory as it used to be in the past. I disagree. Lots of teams have cores of drafted players or even UDFA's that they sign and develop . The current CBA allowed for the these cores to be kept together by the limited $$ in the rookie contracts. You no longer have to draft a Sam Bradford and then immediately pay him $50 million before he ever threw a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,663 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 There's homegrown talent and then there's homegrown TALENT. We have "homegrown" the league's best quarterback, the league's best tight end, possibly the league's best wide receiver, one of the league's best pass rushers and a homegrown left tackle that's been pretty good for a long time. Hitting big on the right positions is more important than drafting a lot of average left guards and safeties that make the roster every year for a long time. xen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted July 1, 2020 Author Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 hours ago, reesebobby said: There's homegrown talent and then there's homegrown TALENT. We have "homegrown" the league's best quarterback, the league's best tight end, possibly the league's best wide receiver, one of the league's best pass rushers and a homegrown left tackle that's been pretty good for a long time. Hitting big on the right positions is more important than drafting a lot of average left guards and safeties that make the roster every year for a long time. Homegrown talent has to have 2 things Talent that is maximized by putting the player in the best situation Teachers to develop the talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 8 hours ago, Handswarmer said: Homegrown talent has to have 2 things Talent that is maximized by putting the player in the best situation Teachers to develop the talent Positional importance is still a thing. Who cares if you always grow the best fullback or blocking tight end but can't develop a QB or tackle or pass rusher or corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 10 hours ago, xen said: Positional importance is still a thing. Who cares if you always grow the best fullback or blocking tight end but can't develop a QB or tackle or pass rusher or corner. True but if you have an awesome athlete at Fullback like a Kyle Juszczyk or Patrick Ricard, they are less a fullback and more of a weapon as an H back, running back, blocker and reciever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,663 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 8 hours ago, Handswarmer said: True but if you have an awesome athlete at Fullback like a Kyle Juszczyk or Patrick Ricard, they are less a fullback and more of a weapon as an H back, running back, blocker and reciever. KyleJuszczyk has been in the league 7 years and to the playoffs twice. And I'll let everyone else google Patrick Ricard on their own to wee what kind of a weapon he is. Comparing those two to the importance of Mahomes, Hill, Kelce or Chris Jones is diminishing your football reputation. xen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 8 hours ago, Handswarmer said: True but if you have an awesome athlete at Fullback like a Kyle Juszczyk or Patrick Ricard, they are less a fullback and more of a weapon as an H back, running back, blocker and reciever. We're a great team cause our fullback is awesome! Said no one ever. azchief21, oldtimer and SEMO 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard 2,061 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 4 hours ago, xen said: We're a great team cause our fullback is awesome! Said no one ever. He played well. On both plays. I think we should increase his work load to 4 plays this year. xen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 17 hours ago, xen said: We're a great team cause our fullback is awesome! Said no one ever. T-Rich was awesome 😒 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sith13 1,746 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 On 7/1/2020 at 3:20 PM, Handswarmer said: I disagree. Lots of teams have cores of drafted players or even UDFA's that they sign and develop . The current CBA allowed for the these cores to be kept together by the limited $$ in the rookie contracts. You no longer have to draft a Sam Bradford and then immediately pay him $50 million before he ever threw a pass. Homegrown shouldn't necessarily refer to drafted players. You can pick up a lame FA and develop them into stars. Pretty much every player goes through some form of grooming to adjust to the team or the playbook. In the end it comes down to having a great QB or not with the way rules have evolved. Lamardirts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan4pres 125 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Mike Alstott and John Riggins were quasi-fullbacks back in the day, but they were also the featured back in their offense. Those days are gone, my friends. I guess that Henry, Okoye and Beast Mode could be in that mold as well but they wouldn't be called on to even block a kicker, let alone lead block on a running play. Personally, I think Sherman is vastly underused. The only problem is who do you take touches away from so he can get more? I would love for Sherman to line up as a single back once in a while, after we get a lead, and just pound him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handswarmer 645 Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 On 7/2/2020 at 3:35 PM, reesebobby said: KyleJuszczyk has been in the league 7 years and to the playoffs twice. And I'll let everyone else google Patrick Ricard on their own to wee what kind of a weapon he is. Comparing those two to the importance of Mahomes, Hill, Kelce or Chris Jones is diminishing your football reputation. WTF did I compare them to anyone except themselves? JFC, every conversation has to go back to "Yeah but Mahomes is All World so, suck it" with you? The article is about developing homegrown talent. Mahomes had a shit load already; they just refined it. Someone like Ricard is an example of developing it as he came out a Defensive end, developed into a pass catcher and now is a 2 way player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Handswarmer said: WTF did I compare them to anyone except themselves? JFC, every conversation has to go back to "Yeah but Mahomes is All World so, suck it" with you? The article is about developing homegrown talent. Mahomes had a shit load already; they just refined it. Someone like Ricard is an example of developing it as he came out a Defensive end, developed into a pass catcher and now is a 2 way player. Sooooo touchy. Point, Reese. Round 2... start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reesebobby 5,663 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Handswarmer said: WTF did I compare them to anyone except themselves? JFC, every conversation has to go back to "Yeah but Mahomes is All World so, suck it" with you? The article is about developing homegrown talent. Mahomes had a shit load already; they just refined it. Someone like Ricard is an example of developing it as he came out a Defensive end, developed into a pass catcher and now is a 2 way player. First off i rarely talk about mahomes. I flip you shit about jackson because your panties get bunched up and its fun. Second, i said although we may not have the most retained draft picks we have hit on the key positions in a big way. Your response to that was how important a fucking athletic 300 pound fullback is to a team. So yes you made the comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Round 2 starts quickly as Reese comes out swinging and works the body. DieHard and azchief21 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkuenn 3,598 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, xen said: Round 2 starts quickly as Reese comes out swinging and works the body. Bullshit, that was a low blow. Using common sense should not be allowed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xen 1,010,220 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 49 minutes ago, kkuenn said: Bullshit, that was a low blow. Using common sense should not be allowed! Good point. Point deducted for using logic in an arguement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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