Spags on Gay's playing time

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

8 hours ago, xen said:

Gay got 5 and 9 snaps on D against the chargers and ravens respectively.  Against the Pats he got 24 snaps on D, almost a third of the total defensive snaps.  His pff grade for the Pats game was 82.6 which puts him in high quality range (90+ is elite).

Seems pretty obvious they're bringing him along and slowly integrating him into the defense.  Considering the lack of college playing time, that's probably smart.

He'll be ready when he's ready.  Do you also freak out when the chili's not done after 20 minutes?

I dont know why you think I'm freaking out. I asked a question. Every time I bring up our run defense and shitty LB play someone assumes I'm posting from the ledge of a building and I'm gonna hit submit right before I jump.

We are 4-0 and the best team in the league. But I want to win another SB, not win the first 1/4 of the season. I see roadblocks and I am worried about our offensive line and our run defense.

Tell me where I'm supposed to go to express these concerns. Is there a designated thread for freaking out? Because apparently these threads are reserved for blind homerism.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

 

PFF

Highest Charlton 89.6 Fenton 83.1 Gay Jr. 82.6 Osemele 78.0 Kelce 76.6 Schwartz 74 Reiter 68.8

Lowest Niemann 43.6 Mahomes 44.9 Wharton 46.7 Watkins 47.7 Wilson 51.9 Sorensen 53.5 Mathieu 54.7 Overall 66.0 Offense 64.1 Defense 67.8

[AFCWEST 1,238]

42 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

I dont know why you think I'm freaking out. I asked a question. Every time I bring up our run defense and shitty LB play someone assumes I'm posting from the ledge of a building and I'm gonna hit submit right before I jump.

We are 4-0 and the best team in the league. But I want to win another SB, not win the first 1/4 of the season. I see roadblocks and I am worried about our offensive line and our run defense.

Tell me where I'm supposed to go to express these concerns. Is there a designated thread for freaking out? Because apparently these threads are reserved for blind homerism.

Maybe its your angry tone? Maybe worry less?

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

I dont know why you think I'm freaking out. I asked a question. Every time I bring up our run defense and shitty LB play someone assumes I'm posting from the ledge of a building and I'm gonna hit submit right before I jump.

We are 4-0 and the best team in the league. But I want to win another SB, not win the first 1/4 of the season. I see roadblocks and I am worried about our offensive line and our run defense.

Tell me where I'm supposed to go to express these concerns. Is there a designated thread for freaking out? Because apparently these threads are reserved for blind homerism.

ok maybe freaking out was a bit of hyperbole.  

Personally I don't think our run D really matters that much in the big scheme of things.  Our pass D is what will ultimately determine our superbowl aspirations.  I just don't think you can consistently beat this KC team running the ball, and results have proven that out.

Nobody gets extra wins in the NFL from style points.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

2 hours ago, AFCWEST said:

Maybe its your angry tone? Maybe worry less?

I'd sure like you to teach me how you pick up on tone reading 8 point font. Do you put your ear up really close to the monitor? That seems like a cool trick.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

2 hours ago, xen said:

ok maybe freaking out was a bit of hyperbole.  

Personally I don't think our run D really matters that much in the big scheme of things.  Our pass D is what will ultimately determine our superbowl aspirations.  I just don't think you can consistently beat this KC team running the ball, and results have proven that out.

Nobody gets extra wins in the NFL from style points.

True. It didn't work for Tennessee in the playoffs and they were supposed to be a nightmare match-up. I just don't understand how we look so good against Baltimore and then regress the following week at home.

[jetlord 10,209]

17 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

True. It didn't work for Tennessee in the playoffs and they were supposed to be a nightmare match-up. I just don't understand how we look so good against Baltimore and then regress the following week at home.

Andy probably takes every opponent seriously, but he seems to get the team up for the more competitive games.  Would Jones have played if Cam was starting for the Pats?  Would the play calling have been different if the Pats had an offense?  It seems that the Chiefs play down to the level of the opposition.  They cover the spread most times, but don't really blow out anyone.  Some complain that Reid takes his foot off the pedal when leading and that may be true, but it's also possible that he just doesn't use all his tools and reveal them until it's necessary.  If the Chiefs get a solid lead over the Raiders, don't be surprised if Reid saves it for the Bills. 

[jetlord 10,209]

3 hours ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

I dont know why you think I'm freaking out. I asked a question. Every time I bring up our run defense and shitty LB play someone assumes I'm posting from the ledge of a building and I'm gonna hit submit right before I jump.

We are 4-0 and the best team in the league. But I want to win another SB, not win the first 1/4 of the season. I see roadblocks and I am worried about our offensive line and our run defense.

Tell me where I'm supposed to go to express these concerns. Is there a designated thread for freaking out? Because apparently these threads are reserved for blind homerism.

I agree that the run defense is a problem.  I don't agree that Gay has shown he isn't part of the solution.  It will just take a lot more time before we know if he can make a difference.  Worry about the run defense?  Okay.  Worry about Gay  Too soon.  JMHO

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

True. It didn't work for Tennessee in the playoffs and they were supposed to be a nightmare match-up. I just don't understand how we look so good against Baltimore and then regress the following week at home.

Matchups.  Belichick D has always been a tough matchup for us.  Baltimore D not so much.  

[artsy 1,137]

4 hours ago, xen said:

Matchups.  Belichick D has always been a tough matchup for us.  Baltimore D not so much.  

I also believe it's a gameplan thing. The staff approaches every game differently....that's why we win so much. PLUS, Reid and co. are great at keeping teams off balance on both sides of the ball week to week. If you haven't already,  pay close attention to the defensive and offensive strategies week to week...They are always different. ALWAYS. 

I've coached football for years, so maybe I see things that a lot of people don't normally see. The good coaches in the NFL change it up constantly, specifically based on the teams they're playing. Reid, BB, Sean Payton and Tomlin...Which is another reason that division games are so tough. Those teams see us twice a year, so they've been able to study how we attack them through the years. 

Baltimore along with a few other teams, have the talent on paper to beat us..But they panic and never stick to their gameplan because of our potent offense. Everyone saw what the Pats did to slow us down, but not too many teams have the patience to stick with it, or the personnel to pull it off. 

[xen 1,010,220]

Seth has a nice breakdown of Gay's snaps on his blog.  Consensus basically was he looked good vs run, still learning to play in coverage.  Which is why they're easing him in.  

Here's some gifs yo.

Really nice fill here.  Aggressive.  

Great fill.  Makes the tackle miss completely, then gets back in his gap and cleans it up with Pennel.

Seth said in coverage snaps they mostly asked him to either cover the RB or rush the passer if the RB stayed in to block.  Here you can see it's a tough read on the RB considering his movement towards the line but when the RB commits to the block, Gay is a bit slow to pick it up and start his rush.  When he does commit to rushing you can see the speed take over.  Once he learns to trust his eyes, plays like that can turn into sacks.  He still gets credit for the pressure here.

Bad coverage snap that didn't end up mattering but you can see Gay get suckered by the fake and then gets turned around trying to drop back into his zone.  Eyes in front young man. Head on a swivel.  Get that backpedal going.  

Gets washed out by the OT, no attempt to shed.  He'll learn.

 

All in all, 25 snaps is a good start and was an overall positive outing.  Expect him to stay at SAM the next 4 games at least, maybe the whole season, barring an injury.  All his snaps were in base looks, meaning zero nickel or dime snaps.  Spags clearly thinks he's a work in progress on obvious coverage snaps but is starting to trust him when it’s not a passing down.

If you think he should be starting already I would say you should have watched his college games.  You may say I don't like projects in the 2nd round.  That's fine too and fair criticism of Veach, but water under the bridge at this point. 

All i can say is I really feel that if this kid puts it all together he could be really special.  We'll see soon what kind of worker he is, because the tools are all there.  Amazing athleticism along with a lot of aggression can take you far (some of his run fits were violently aggressive).  We haven't seen that in the LB corp for quite a while.   

Trigger alert, it may be next year before he really starts to put it all together, but he will flash like hell at some points this year.

[sith13 1,746]

I couldn't care one bit about his coverage skills at this point, he'll learn that on the field but looks very solid against the run. I haven't seen anything resembling the first two gifs ever since DJ left and really missed that. 

[jetlord 10,209]

Maybe some of the run defense problems are due to Ragland being gone.  Gay can easily replace Ragland and when he learns, the pass overage will be a bonus.  If the Chiefs stop the Raider run game, they'll be in good shape Sunday.  One has to feel better about that with Gay starting to get it, at least in base packages.  He was drafted for his athleticism and we can expect to see more of him in pass packages down the road, hopefully by the latter part of this season. 

[AFCWEST 1,238]

Only 2 snaps on D vs Bills? Not a good sign.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

10 hours ago, AFCWEST said:

Only 2 snaps on D vs Bills? Not a good sign.

They needed to get keep that beast Sorenson in the lineup. Hes fantastic as an in the box safety. I dont know why the Seahags didn't trade all those picks for him instead of Jamaal Adams.

[kkuenn 3,597]

The Defense did great either than the last td drive they all played back and off the ball. I hate that easy td bs. Spags might have been used here for pass defense but Sorensen has the experience 

[xen 1,010,220]

38 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

The Defense did great either than the last td drive they all played back and off the ball. I hate that easy td bs. Spags might have been used here for pass defense but Sorensen has the experience 

No coincidence that the easy late TD was the only drive we sat back in off coverage.  Spags was mixing it up.  He quit that shit the next drive and went back to being aggressive.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

We weren't in base D much, therefore he didn't play a lot.  Also Hitchens played more in dime in lieu of Nieman.  We looked better overall.   

[AFCWEST 1,238]

22 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

We weren't in base D much, therefore he didn't play a lot.  Also Hitchens played more in dime in lieu of Nieman.  We looked better overall.   

The results seem better but that still does not bode well for Gay. He must not be what KC thought they drafted. At least not yet. 2 snaps? 

[jetlord 10,209]

2 hours ago, AFCWEST said:

The results seem better but that still does not bode well for Gay. He must not be what KC thought they drafted. At least not yet. 2 snaps? 

Give it time.  DJ didn't set the defense on fire his first couple of seasons. 

[Balto 723]

7 hours ago, kkuenn said:

The Defense did great either than the last td drive they all played back and off the ball. I hate that easy td bs. Spags might have been used here for pass defense but Sorensen has the experience 

Type that while I hold you arm down

[kkuenn 3,597]

2 hours ago, Balto said:

Type that while I hold you arm down

Well I meant Gay not Spags 

[xen 1,010,220]

14 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

We weren't in base D much, therefore he didn't play a lot.  Also Hitchens played more in dime in lieu of Nieman.  We looked better overall.   

Yep.  Strong side backer comes off the field when they go to coverage looks.  Gay not ready for nickel snaps, and only just started getting some coverage snaps vs the raiders.  Give it time.  Spags was more worried about buffalo's passing game than rushers, and rightfully so.

[azchief21 5,278]

Need some more Taco & Danna, less KPass

[Lamardirts 2,114]

On 10/7/2020 at 9:45 PM, xen said:

Seth has a nice breakdown of Gay's snaps on his blog.  Consensus basically was he looked good vs run, still learning to play in coverage.  Which is why they're easing him in.  

Here's some gifs yo.

Really nice fill here.  Aggressive.  

Great fill.  Makes the tackle miss completely, then gets back in his gap and cleans it up with Pennel.

Seth said in coverage snaps they mostly asked him to either cover the RB or rush the passer if the RB stayed in to block.  Here you can see it's a tough read on the RB considering his movement towards the line but when the RB commits to the block, Gay is a bit slow to pick it up and start his rush.  When he does commit to rushing you can see the speed take over.  Once he learns to trust his eyes, plays like that can turn into sacks.  He still gets credit for the pressure here.

Bad coverage snap that didn't end up mattering but you can see Gay get suckered by the fake and then gets turned around trying to drop back into his zone.  Eyes in front young man. Head on a swivel.  Get that backpedal going.  

Gets washed out by the OT, no attempt to shed.  He'll learn.

 

All in all, 25 snaps is a good start and was an overall positive outing.  Expect him to stay at SAM the next 4 games at least, maybe the whole season, barring an injury.  All his snaps were in base looks, meaning zero nickel or dime snaps.  Spags clearly thinks he's a work in progress on obvious coverage snaps but is starting to trust him when it’s not a passing down.

If you think he should be starting already I would say you should have watched his college games.  You may say I don't like projects in the 2nd round.  That's fine too and fair criticism of Veach, but water under the bridge at this point. 

All i can say is I really feel that if this kid puts it all together he could be really special.  We'll see soon what kind of worker he is, because the tools are all there.  Amazing athleticism along with a lot of aggression can take you far (some of his run fits were violently aggressive).  We haven't seen that in the LB corp for quite a while.   

Trigger alert, it may be next year before he really starts to put it all together, but he will flash like hell at some points this year.

My only issue with projects is your half way through their 4 year rookie contract before they generally are paying dividends, sometimes only in their final year.  Meaning you have to decide whether to give them a big contract on one year and their projected ceiling.   Kpass is a great example.   We spend a 2nd rounder and get maybe (depending how this year turns out) 2 years of production and to be honest its avg at best.   We've done that with 3 picks in the last couple years and 4 if you add Hardman to the list.