Le'Veon Bell?

[Adamixoye 604]

No one is saying he's bad, at least I'm not.

But passing is more efficient than running, full stop.  It's about opportunity cost.  The CEH upgrade at RB is less impactful than an upgrade at IOL or somewhere on the defense would have been.  Continuing to try to "establish the run" (and I feel like we've tried to feed CEH unnecessarily at times) hurts us relative to than passing more often than not and running only in efficient situations (light boxes, short-yardage, etc.).

[AFCWEST 1,238]

4 hours ago, Chiefmanzada said:

Disagree. Clyde has shown flashes of greatness. 

Raiders are a tough team to beat with Josh Jacobs, and he was a mid-1st round. As we all see, it took him a couple years to do serious damage. 

And a good RB is very crucial come playoff time. the 49ers basically ran their way to the SB last year, as did the Titans. 

But in the end they lost. So there is that.

[Adamixoye 604]

1 minute ago, AFCWEST said:

But in the end they lost. So there is that.

Exactly.  Far from proving the importance of the run game, the fact that two great running teams went up against an allegedly bad run defense and still lost is evidence that the importance of the run game is often overstated.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

1 minute ago, Adamixoye said:

Exactly.  Far from proving the importance of the run game, the fact that two great running teams went up against an allegedly bad run defense and still lost is evidence that the importance of the run game is often overstated.

Agree. Its like the talking heads still saying " defense wins championships". Its just not true anymore. SF lost because they only allowed their QB to pass like 8 times in two playoff wins. Then they expected the guy to be ready to throw in comeback mode. They had D and a good running game but lost. Yes they could have also won but my point is you dont have to be running & playing D to win it all.

[Handswarmer 645]

On 10/14/2020 at 11:46 AM, KC Warpaint said:

wouldn't have anything to do with not wanting to see the team standing between yours and a possible SB trying to improve themselves

 

No, its an honest assessment of a guy who played against my team 10 times and he he has been held under a 100 yds for 7 of those games. I have probably seen him play more than anyone else on here.

[oldtimer 8,686]

29 minutes ago, Handswarmer said:

No, its an honest assessment of a guy who played against my team 10 times and he he has been held under a 100 yds for 7 of those games. I have probably seen him play more than anyone else on here.

ok in those game ( honest question) who won? I mean holding a guy under 100 is only part of the equation but adds  zero if he scored  2-3-or even 4 TDs and is that 100 yrds  air and ground or just ground? I'm not really a big fan of the signing so I am trying to get an "Honest Assessment"  

[Biggjliv4 1,292]

5 hours ago, kkuenn said:

Hunt is good but we need never had to see how he would do with a shitty line like this. CEH is fine but he has a few things going against him. The o line is bad. Losing Niang, LDT and Osemele made it much worse. Reid abandons the run after a few plays it seems too. He also quits doing sweeps.or whatever when it works well. Finally there is the no true training camp and pre season games. This would have helped a lot to in him learning and the coaches learning of other players and abilities.

If I recall the Oline wasn't much different than we have now. Was suspect then as well. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

26 minutes ago, Biggjliv4 said:

If I recall the Oline wasn't much different than we have now. Was suspect then as well. 

Maybe? I would have to look it up but one thing is that this line is always changing. The continuity we have seen I recent years has sucked. It seems every week we cant get through healthy other than Schwartz and until last year Fisher.

[Chiefmanzada 466]

2 hours ago, Adamixoye said:

Exactly.  Far from proving the importance of the run game, the fact that two great running teams went up against an allegedly bad run defense and still lost is evidence that the importance of the run game is often overstated.

Doesn't matter that they lost, it's the fact they were contenders because of their run game. Titans went into NE and beat Brady and the Patriots AND Baltimore thanks to Henry, and you're saying the importance of the run game is overstated? 

And they lost to Patrick Mahomes, an anomaly who can beat anyone. But also, the man who scored the game winning touchdowns was Damien Williams, a running back. 

I think I've made my point but I'll throw in 49ers, Raheem Mostert, 29 carries 220 yards to beat Rodgers and the Packers and coast into the Superbowl. In the Superbow,, they ran the ball to Raheem late in the 4th quarter, he picked up 5-6 yards on 1st down. The next two downs 49ers stupidly threw the ball, then had to punt. Chiefs went down and scored the game winning TD. 

Cannot stress enough the importance of having a solid RB in the playoffs and Superbowl. Veach knows it, Reid knows it, and that's why we got Lev Bell, because Clyde ain't ready yet. 

[Adamixoye 604]

Lots of evidence that the real reason Tennessee did so well wasn't Henry but Tannehill.  Tennessee was bad before Tannehill took over.  It wasn't Henry.

SF is a little different, there is some evidence they were an exception as a run game that really produced success in the modern game.  But an exception that proves the rule, perhaps.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

Le'Veon Bell's contract is worth $690,000 with an additional $1 million in incentives.

The Jets still owe Bell $6 million this year, so Bell opted for the best real-life landing spot instead of a possibly bigger pay day in Miami or Buffalo. For this little money, this was a solid mid-year signing for Kansas City while Clyde Edwards-Helaire makes rookie-year adjustments in pass protection and between the tackles. Bell will be eligible to return Week 7 and has some flex appeal immediately as the potential short-yardage back. Long term, touches between Bell and Edwards-Helaire will be dependent on how each back plays in the offense, but it'd be a surprise if this weren't a two-back committee of some sort. 

SOURCE: ESPN.com

[xen 1,010,220]

Disclaimer:  I have no idea what Bell has left in the tank but I do know that Gase is a shit coach and the Jets are a dumpster fire.

EXAMINING LONG LIST OF PLAYERS WHO'VE IMPROVED POST-ADAM GASE
BY:
KYLE CRABBS
JULY 2ND, 2020
THE DRAFT NETWORK

Photo: Brad Penner-USA TODAY Sports
They say that one of the best qualities of a good head coach is consistently putting his players in the best position to be successful. It extends beyond X’s and O’s, too—sports, like the business world, is all about relationships. Those who can connect with their players, or at the very least encourage buy-in from their players, are going to have a better chance to produce results on the field. 

Consider this quote from longtime NFL coach Bum Phillips: 

“Don Shula can take his’n and beat you’n, and he could take you’n and beat his’n.”

Indeed, it seems like a common quality amongst the best head coaches in the history of the game. They’re simply capable of getting more out of their players and people than the average coach. There are great coaches, there are good coaches and there are average coaches. And then there are coaches like Adam Gase. 

Gase’s career as an NFL head coach to this point reads like Phillips’ quote about the great Don Shula, but with a slight twist.

“Adam Gase can take his’n and lose to you’n, and he could take you’n and lose to his’n.”

Sporting a 30-34 career record as a head coach, Gase has been the epitome of average to this point in his career. But it isn’t just the average record—there are plenty of coaches with modest or worse records as the leaders of their teams. It’s how Gase has lost (he has 3 more wins than he does double digit losses) and how he has managed to alienate good players that is most incredible to consider. Gase’s teams have had some good talent—and they’re almost all universally better immediately after moving on from playing under his watch. 

Consider some of the players jettisoned out of Miami during Gase’s three-year run with the team. 

WR Jarvis Landry — Landry’s story is the most famous falling out in Miami. Landry was one of the NFL’s most productive players, but his two seasons under Gase in Miami were highlighted by 112 receptions in 2017 for less than nine yards per reception. Landry insisted his talent was more valuable than serving as a check-down option, but talking to Gase about his concerns wasn’t an option. 

"When I’d go to talk to Gase about (expanding my route tree), he’d curse me out," said Landry. "'Why are you telling me how to do my job?' It got to the point where the environment was just awful."

Nearly half of Landry’s 161 targets that season came within three yards of the line of scrimmage. 

So Landry was traded to the Browns, a destination where Gase reportedly threatened to trade other Dolphins players for poor performances in the past. 

In the two years since Landry was traded from Miami to Cleveland, the receiver has seen his yards per catch swell from 10.3 yards in two seasons under Gase to 13.1 in two seasons without him, including a career-high 14.1 yards per receptions in 2019. 

DT Jordan Phillips — Phillips was a former second-round selection for Miami in 2015 and was cut by Gase four games into the 2018 season; Gase’s final year with the team. By the end of the 2019 season, Phillips had logged 9.5 sacks last year for the Buffalo Bills, the team that claimed him after he was cut by Miami. 

OG Billy Turner — Turner was an early third-round selection for the Dolphins in 2014 and was unceremoniously cut by Gase midway through his third season in Miami, his first under Gase. Turner turned in a bad performance and was cut just days after being the team’s starter on the offensive line. And while Turner’s play has still been up and down in the three years since, he did play well enough as a starter in Denver to command a 4-year $28M contract with the Packers ahead of the 2019 season. Gase gave him away for free.

RB Damien Williams — Williams spent two years under Gase and logged 296 rushing yards and three rushing touchdowns over that span. Williams, while still in a complementary role, has logged 754 yards and nine rushing scores in two years in Kansas City. In all, his yards from scrimmage and total touchdowns (13 in two seasons with the Chiefs) doubled as well. What hurts the most about this one? Gase effectively gave Williams the cold shoulder, first telling Williams that Miami intended to bring him back to the team in 2018. But Williams underwent shoulder surgery that offseason and Gase went on that offseason to never return his phone calls, leading him to sign in Kansas City.

“That really hurt,” said Williams. “I was there four years and gave Miami my all. I still have not spoken to him to this day. That hurt me because me and Gase were cool.”

And yet, despite the mismanagement of talent being kicked to the curb in Miami, the players who remained in South Florida after Gase had been relieved of his duties (a decision that prompted reactions from both Landry and Phillips on social media when it was announced) and played under new management in 2019 is an even more damning indictment of Gase as a coach. Four key skill players who were supposed to thrive under Gase in Miami enjoyed their best seasons (by far) as pros in their first season without Gase calling their plays. 

QB Ryan Tannehill (w/ Tennessee) — Tannehill’s career revival in Tennessee is well documented. After starting the season as the backup to Marcus Mariota, Tannehill commandeered the Titans offense midway through the year and unlocked the team’s passing game with impressive efficiency. Tannehill posted a 70% completion percentage, tossed a touchdown on 7.7% of his pass attempts, and led the NFL in yards per attempt (9.6) and quarterback rating (117.5). His play under Gase wasn’t necessarily bad from a statistical standpoint, but the Dolphins offense always felt like it was playing with one hand tied behind its back and Tannehill, who endured a relentless pounding under previous head coach Joe Philbin’s watch, was hurt frequently under Gase, missing 24 of a possible 48 starts. 

There’s plenty of blame for Tannehill’s tenure in Miami that doesn’t fall at the feet of Gase, but it is also quite convenient that Tannehill is thriving at the first possible stop after getting out from underneath him. 

RB Kenyan Drake (w/ Arizona) — Like Tannehill, there’s plenty of blame for why Kenyan Drake never lived up to his potential in Miami that extends beyond Gase. But Gase chose Drake to be his heir to the running back position after the team unceremoniously traded RB Jay Ajayi mid-season in 2017—who was another player Gase discarded because of perceived effort and preparation issues. Drake was supposed to take over the mantle, only for Gase to defer to veteran RB Frank Gore instead. Drake, despite a promising 4.5 yards per carry and plenty of upside in the passing game, started just seven games in 2018 and only rushed the ball 120 times on the season. 

Drake struggled to start the year in 2019 without Gase in the picture due to the Dolphins’ stripped-down offensive line that could best be described as “offensive.” But a trade to Arizona allowed Drake to thrive as he surpassed his 2018 rushes in just eight games with the Cardinals and came within a single yard of his previous career high over a full season in those same 8 games (643 yards & eight scores). As it turns out, Drake’s talent has always been there, but his opportunity was not. 

WR DeVante Parker — Parker enjoyed a promising second season in 2016 in Gase’s first season, logging 744 yards and four scores over 15 games. But the next two seasons saw Parker spend the vast majority of his time in Gase’s dog house; including one odd stretch that saw the Dolphins leave Parker inactive while Gase claimed he was not fit to play. The assert was met in force by Parker’s agent, Jimmy Gould.

"I find the decision to make DeVante inactive today by Coach Gase incompetent and insulting," Gould was quoted in a statement. 

"It's also just not true and I am sick of hearing him say my player is not healthy. This is the third game this year that DeVante should have played in when you include the Jets and Patriots….What a horrific decision by Coach Gaze and he needs to take a very long look in the mirror and make himself inactive."

Parker stumbled through the final two years of Gase’s tenure without any support from his coach before coming alive in 2019 without Gase’s hands all over the offense, posting career highs in starts (14), targets (128), receptions (72), yards (1,202), and touchdowns (9) under the watch of a more player-friendly coach in Brian Flores.

TE Mike Gesicki — Gesicki is perhaps the best case of mismanagement of talent throughout Gase’s tenure with the Dolphins. Miami drafted Gesicki, a flex tight end from Penn State, with a second-round pick in the 2018 NFL Draft and the Dolphins proceeded to line him up with a hand in the dirt of 60% of his snaps his rookie season. On 31% of his reps, he was asked to run block. The Dolphins charged him with pass protection on 20% of his reps as a rookie as well. 

It shouldn’t have been this hard. The Dolphins drafted a seam-buster at tight end and asked him to play with his hand in the dirt and block for more than half of his reps as a rookie. It’s no wonder he was Pro Football Focus’ 107th ranked TE in pass protection and 131st ranked TE in run blocking that season. 

It’s also no surprise that, with Gase out of the picture, Gesicki magically posted more than double the receptions (51), yards (570), and five more scores in 2019 than he did under Gase in 2018. 

Gase’s struggles to manage his team have extended into his tenure with the Jets already after just one season. He botched handling an injury to starting guard Kelechi Osemele that spiraled so violently out of control that Osemele was cut by the end of October in Gase’s first season with the Jets. The relationship fractured in part because Gase went weeks without speaking to one of his starters on offense because “(Osemele) hasn’t asked to speak with me.”

Gase managed to alienate both prized free agents of 2019, RB Le’Veon Bell and LB C.J. Mosley, within his first three months on the job when it became public in the aftermath of the Jets firing GM Mike Maccagnan that Gase did not want to spend the money necessary to sign both players in free agency earlier that offseason. 

Things were so bad for Bell last season that the veteran back probably wishes he’d already joined the club and been traded by Gase. During his time in Pittsburgh, Bell was routinely one of the most productive backs in football. He averaged 86.1 rushing yards per game over five years with the Steelers and logged an average of seven rushing touchdowns per season. His 2019 year with the Jets? Bell carried the ball 245 times and averaged 3.2 yards per carry—logging a grand total of 311 total touches for just 4.0 yards per touch and just four total touchdowns. The Jets paid Bell just short of $15 million in cash last season—the first of a four-year, $52M contract. 

And now, in a span of eight months, star safety Jamal Adams has gone from expressing his desire to be a “Jet for life” to demanding a trade from the team. It should be a surprise to no one that Gase is reportedly a large reason why. 

We have enough of a sample size of who Gase is to know which side of that conflict the Jets should be ready to take. Will they? Or will they simply allow Gase’s growing list of talents to thrive more than ever after moving on from his leadership to include Adams, who is one of the brightest young defensive stars in the game?

[xen 1,010,220]

7 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

Le'Veon Bell's contract is worth $690,000 with an additional $1 million in incentives.

The Jets still owe Bell $6 million this year, so Bell opted for the best real-life landing spot instead of a possibly bigger pay day in Miami or Buffalo. For this little money, this was a solid mid-year signing for Kansas City while Clyde Edwards-Helaire makes rookie-year adjustments in pass protection and between the tackles. Bell will be eligible to return Week 7 and has some flex appeal immediately as the potential short-yardage back. Long term, touches between Bell and Edwards-Helaire will be dependent on how each back plays in the offense, but it'd be a surprise if this weren't a two-back committee of some sort. 

SOURCE: ESPN.com

I assume the incentives are not likely to be earned.  They'll go on next years cap if so, and if he earns them.  Likely no or minimal change in this year's cap.

[qnet 1,150]

I wasn't a fan of this signing,  but I don't know enough details about his situation with the Steelers & Jets,  only what I've heard in the mainstream sports media.  I just remember a few seasons back him cutting the Chiefs defense up bad.

If he fits in and doesn't get sideways with his teammates or coaches, I'm good. Hopefully that will happen and he can contribute.

[xen 1,010,220]

12 hours ago, qnet said:

I wasn't a fan of this signing,  but I don't know enough details about his situation with the Steelers & Jets,  only what I've heard in the mainstream sports media.  I just remember a few seasons back him cutting the Chiefs defense up bad.

If he fits in and doesn't get sideways with his teammates or coaches, I'm good. Hopefully that will happen and he can contribute.

Honestly this is such a low risk, potentially high reward signing it doesn't matter.  We can cut him with no ramifications.  KC gets a 3rd down back, can further open up the playbook and adds another potential weapon.   There's really not much downside.  Bell is here only to chase a ring and signed on to a situation where he knew he wouldn't be the featured back.  I can't see him raising hell about usage with this coach and locker room.

[xen 1,010,220]

15 hours ago, xen said:

I assume the incentives are not likely to be earned.  They'll go on next years cap if so, and if he earns them.  Likely no or minimal change in this year's cap.

As expected the incentives are NLTBE and will be charged on next years cap if earned.

That means, for this year, the cap charge will be less than 100k over the min salary for a 2nd year player.  The impact on the cap actually could give us some money back as he replaces another salary on the top 53.

Veach continues his Faustian deal with Beelzebub, but at least he uses his Sorcery for the betterment of society.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

2 hours ago, xen said:

As expected the incentives are NLTBE and will be charged on next years cap if earned.

That means, for this year, the cap charge will be less than 100k over the min salary for a 2nd year player.  The impact on the cap actually could give us some money back as he replaces another salary on the top 53.

Veach continues his Faustian deal with Beelzebub, but at least he uses his Sorcery for the betterment of society.

Does Kc get a comp pick when he signs somewhere else next year?

[Handswarmer 645]

On 10/16/2020 at 3:28 PM, oldtimer said:

ok in those game ( honest question) who won? I mean holding a guy under 100 is only part of the equation but adds  zero if he scored  2-3-or even 4 TDs and is that 100 yrds  air and ground or just ground? I'm not really a big fan of the signing so I am trying to get an "Honest Assessment"  

In the games he was under a 100, the Steelers were 3-4 vs the Ravens

In the games he was over 100 yds, the Steelers were 2-0 vs the Ravens

In the 1 game over 100yds with the Jets, they lost vs the Ravens

Revieving, he has avg about 35 yds a game with 3 tds total. Biggest total was 77 yds on 9 receptions= 8.5 avg

[ChiefThunder 153]

While with Pitt vs Ravens

Rushing, Receiving 

2017

13-48 2tds, 9-71 1td (W)

35-144 2tds, 4-42 (W)

2016

20-122 1td, 3-15 1td (W)

14-32, 6-38 (L)

2015

22-129 1td, 7-21 (L)

2014

10-20, 5-38 1td (W)

11-59, 5-48 (L)

2013

16-73 1td, 7-63 (L)

19-93, 1-6 (W)

 

[kkuenn 3,597]

4 hours ago, AFCWEST said:

Does Kc get a comp pick when he signs somewhere else next year?

As a FA he could get us a comp pick.

[DieHard 2,061]

That’s a good contract for us. Wish he played OL. But if Clyde were to get hurt, this will look like a very smart signing. I like it a lot. No idea what he has left, but an upgrade over DW. 

[xen 1,010,220]

3 hours ago, Handswarmer said:

In the games he was under a 100, the Steelers were 3-4 vs the Ravens

In the games he was over 100 yds, the Steelers were 2-0 vs the Ravens

In the 1 game over 100yds with the Jets, they lost vs the Ravens

Revieving, he has avg about 35 yds a game with 3 tds total. Biggest total was 77 yds on 9 receptions= 8.5 avg

Good thing we don't need to rely on him to beat the snot out of the ravens then.  😎 

[Adamixoye 604]

13 minutes ago, DieHard said:

That’s a good contract for us. Wish he played OL. But if Clyde were to get hurt, this will look like a very smart signing. I like it a lot. No idea what he has left, but an upgrade over DW. 

I think he's a little undersized for OL.

[xen 1,010,220]

30 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

I think he's a little undersized for OL.

Meh he's a better blocker than our current guards.  Feed that man a shit ton of carbs and we might be on to something.

[Calichief 3,016]

 

Hunt is good but we need never had to see how he would do with a shitty line like this. CEH is fine but he has a few things going against him. The o line is bad. Losing Niang, LDT and Osemele made it much worse. Reid abandons the run after a few plays it seems too. He also quits doing sweeps.or whatever when it works well. Finally there is the no true training camp and pre season games. This would have helped a lot to in him learning and the coaches learning of other players and abilities.

Huh? That line was plenty shitty