Chiefs v Broncos II game thread

[oldtimer 8,686]

7 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

   Nobody called it "cutesy" all the times when those shovel passes and sweeps worked earlier in the season.

because  Shovel Passes and sweeps aren't cutesy..never were ...IMO.

[Adamixoye 604]

Then it seems like the only real definition anyone has of "cutesy" is "plays that didn't work, except for plowing into the line, which also usually doesn't work."

Our shovel passes and sweeps have been very unusual in the details.  People are focusing on the results and constructing a narrative after the fact. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

1 hour ago, Adamixoye said:

I have to weigh in again on the idea of Andy getting "cutesy" in the red zone.  We can't complain about the running game AND complain about the gadget plays.  As long as our running game is struggling we have to have at least some creativity.  That creativity was largely working until these last two games.  The series that started at the 4 was the worst (second FG drive), but the plays at least made some sense:

• Use the "Patrick in motion" thing we've put on film to get the ball to the RB, get 3 of the 4 yards need
• Try to get one yard with Bell, didn't work
• Since that's not working try some misdirection, it got sniffed out

But there were other series were we put Patrick in the shotgun over and over again and there was too much pressure, passes got batted down, etc.  The vast majority of our offensive issues are line play, which gets compounded in the red zone.  You've got to have SOME creativity in the red zone if your OL isn't dominant.  Nobody called it "cutesy" all the times when those shovel passes and sweeps worked earlier in the season.

The biggest issue I have is the fact they may have 6 in the box. We have 5 linemen and can double or pull to a spot. Earlier this year we made teams pay for a light box like this. Teams are using this to keep everything short

 Mahomes will take the easy passes but we need to really try and run again and make teams pay for this.

 

I know the line sucks but even 2 guys can block 1 at the point of attack. This is why people think we march up and down the field at will but when in the red zone thise short passes are not there as much being in a condenses area. This also is why we need to make that light box pay for their defense. 

 

Reid just is not making them pay. I know I am not a coach, but someone has to see the horrible job of the red zone and see their defense. They also should see the line play and adjust. I just can't believe this is the best we have for blockers in Reiter and such.

[Adamixoye 604]

13 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

The biggest issue I have is the fact they may have 6 in the box. We have 5 linemen and can double or pull to a spot. Earlier this year we made teams pay for a light box like this. Teams are using this to keep everything short

 Mahomes will take the easy passes but we need to really try and run again and make teams pay for this.

 

I know the line sucks but even 2 guys can block 1 at the point of attack. This is why people think we march up and down the field at will but when in the red zone thise short passes are not there as much being in a condenses area. This also is why we need to make that light box pay for their defense. 

 

Reid just is not making them pay. I know I am not a coach, but someone has to see the horrible job of the red zone and see their defense. They also should see the line play and adjust. I just can't believe this is the best we have for blockers in Reiter and such.

I kind of think we're saying some of the same things, I'm just pointing out that our red zone offense did have a pretty good stretch earlier in the season.  Last night was bad.  I think it's good that we have creativity, but any time something creative or unusual doesn't work everyone is going to say Andy's getting "cutesy" but when it works no one thinks twice about it.  Ferrari Right, Smoked Sausage, Rolex, etc., everyone is down with these when they work and they have been working.

It would be nice if we figured out how to make the straightforward stuff work as well.  For now, I just want those Hill TDs to connect without trash calls and then we're not even talking about this.

[reesebobby 5,662]

We had 450 yards of offense and 25 first downs.  Our problem was that we were not efficient in the red zone and we were uncharacteristically poor on 3 downs.  I don't think our problem was scheme necessarily. 

[Adamixoye 604]

2 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

We had 450 yards of offense and 25 first downs.  Our problem was that we were not efficient in the red zone and we were uncharacteristically poor on 3 downs.  I don't think our problem was scheme necessarily. 

That, plus Denver has - statistically at least - a good red zone defense.  Sometimes you have to give the other team at least some of the credit when we play less than perfect.

[kkuenn 3,597]

3 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

I kind of think we're saying some of the same things, I'm just pointing out that our red zone offense did have a pretty good stretch earlier in the season.  Last night was bad.  I think it's good that we have creativity, but any time something creative or unusual doesn't work everyone is going to say Andy's getting "cutesy" but when it works no one thinks twice about it.  Ferrari Right, Smoked Sausage, Rolex, etc., everyone is down with these when they work and they have been working.

It would be nice if we figured out how to make the straightforward stuff work as well.  For now, I just want those Hill TDs to connect without trash calls and then we're not even talking about this.

I was agreeing with you. I just pointed it out differently.  1 yard. I mean why do the plays that take 6 yards behind the line of scrimmage? A qb sneak injury was a fluke. If we can't line up and make them pay them it needs to be evaluated. Players and coaches need to be held accountable. They can't run block and their pass blocking sucks. What the fuck are they good at then?

[Adamixoye 604]

Another comment - what's the difference between this game and the 43-16 beatdown of Denver earlier in the year?  16 points for Denver in both cases.  Defense played similarly, I would say - gave up yards on the ground but mostly shut down the passing game.  If we always held opponents to 16 points we would have exactly 1 loss in the Patrick Mahomes Era.

No the difference between the 27 point win and the 6 point win were the two D/ST TDs we had in that game vs. the missed Hill TDs last night.  If four plays break differently then those results are basically swapped and then what's the conversation?

[jetlord 10,209]

3 hours ago, mex said:

ok Capt Hindsight...   

I trust the offense to pick up a few yards more than the defense at this point

long as Andy don't get too cutesy

 

Not hindsight, just math and history.  Run the max amount of clock and kick, knowing that Lock's odds of getting to the end zone with such limited time was near zero.  The offense MIGHT have made a first down but the consequences of not making it would have given the Donks a pretty good chance of getting into FG range and they have a good kicker.  If Elway, in his prime, had been given a chance with a minute left, the Donk chances would have reasonable.  I watched Mizzou too many time to think Lock would do it. 

 

[Adamixoye 604]

I'm sort of neutral on kicking the FG.  Analytics give a slight edge to going for it before the penalty, but I wasn't too scared by Drew Lock with 70 seconds and no time outs.  Getting the cushion of making them need the TD rather than just needing the FG to tie didn't seem like a terrible choice to me.

 

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, reesebobby said:

We had 450 yards of offense and 25 first downs.  Our problem was that we were not efficient in the red zone and we were uncharacteristically poor on 3 downs.  I don't think our problem was scheme necessarily. 

Plus its hard to tell if it was schematic or playcalling issues without looking at all 22 film.  Andy calls a lot of RPOs down close and usually has 2 plays in at a time.  It's hard to tell until you see film if a play was an RPO considering a lot of times you can't see the blocking on broadcast.  It's usually an execution problem, not a play calling issue as theoretically you should be able to find a mismatch with all those options.

[jetlord 10,209]

1 hour ago, kkuenn said:

I was agreeing with you. I just pointed it out differently.  1 yard. I mean why do the plays that take 6 yards behind the line of scrimmage? A qb sneak injury was a fluke. If we can't line up and make them pay them it needs to be evaluated. Players and coaches need to be held accountable. They can't run block and their pass blocking sucks. What the fuck are they good at then?

That's one of the things that I just don't understand about play calling.  Why, when it's third and less than a yard, do teams do deep handoffs?  It's not just the Chiefs, lots of teams do it and for every time it works, there's a time when the team takes a big enough loss to prevent going for it on the next down. 

[jetlord 10,209]

5 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

I'm sort of neutral on kicking the FG.  Analytics give a slight edge to going for it before the penalty, but I wasn't too scared by Drew Lock with 70 seconds and no time outs.  Getting the cushion of making them need the TD rather than just needing the FG to tie didn't seem like a terrible choice to me.

 

I don't dispute the numbers, but the Donks defense is better than average and the Chiefs had little success in short yardage situations last night.  They certainly weren't up to par on third down conversions so why would they be better of fourth down?  Doesn't matter now, but taking out the tie possibility by kicking the FG made perfect sense to me. 

[Adamixoye 604]

40 minutes ago, jetlord said:

I don't dispute the numbers, but the Donks defense is better than average and the Chiefs had little success in short yardage situations last night.  They certainly weren't up to par on third down conversions so why would they be better of fourth down?  Doesn't matter now, but taking out the tie possibility by kicking the FG made perfect sense to me. 

I think that bot might adjust for offensive and defensive conversion rates relative to those teams, but I'm not sure.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

Im wondering why the revolving door on kick & punt returners?  Hill even fielded a punt?

[jetlord 10,209]

33 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

Im wondering why the revolving door on kick & punt returners?  Hill even fielded a punt?

Hardman can't be trusted to run back kick offs.  Too many times run out of the end zone and starting the series inside the 20.  With Pringle hurt, guess Fenton is the best alternative.  Don't know what the deal with Hill on the first punt was about. 

[Adamixoye 604]

Are we really worried about Hill getting hurt moreso than his usual WR work?  I think he should be doing more returns regardless.  Get him reps so he doesn't fumble in a playoff game again.

[Calichief 3,016]

15 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

Are we really worried about Hill getting hurt moreso than his usual WR work?  I think he should be doing more returns regardless.  Get him reps so he doesn't fumble in a playoff game again.

They save it for the playoffs. Hill was back here and there during the playoffs. Especially when we were down if I remember correctly.

[Calichief 3,016]

If nothing else, I think Andy should put him back there to force the bad punt. Because they feel pressure. Never fails. 

[azchief21 5,278]

Kelce says "Hats off to the Raiders" in interview after the Donkeys game. He doesn't give a rip, just another AFC West team in the rear view mirror 🤣🤣

[xen 1,010,220]

2 minutes ago, azchief21 said:

Kelce says "Hats off to the Raiders" in interview after the Donkeys game. He doesn't give a rip, just another AFC West team in the rear view mirror 🤣🤣

lol

 

[Holmes4six! 968]

 

I was agreeing with you. I just pointed it out differently.  1 yard. I mean why do the plays that take 6 yards behind the line of scrimmage? A qb sneak injury was a fluke. If we can't line up and make them pay them it needs to be evaluated. Players and coaches need to be held accountable. They can't run block and their pass blocking sucks. What the fuck are they good at then?

I don’t know what they are good at. 
I do know that we should be able to pound that in once in a while. Remember priest, he would jump over. 
 

[azchief21 5,278]

I can't imagine the degree of suckage to be a fan of the Raiders, Chargers and Donks fan and know we have Mahomes and he's 25 years old.  

[oldtimer 8,686]

51 minutes ago, azchief21 said:

I can't imagine the degree of suckage to be a fan of the Raiders, Chargers and Donks fan and know we have Mahomes and he's 25 years old.  

I wouldn't  be so quick to sleep on  either the Bolts or Raidirts..Hubert is the real deal just needs  so experience and the Raiders..never sleep on the Raiders

[xen 1,010,220]

24 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

I wouldn't  be so quick to sleep on  either the Bolts or Raidirts..Hubert is the real deal just needs  so experience and the Raiders..never sleep on the Raiders

They're gonna have to get better coaches or Andy will have to retire before I worry that they can do more than win one here or there.