Patrick's Health Thread

[xen 1,010,218]

8 minutes ago, Biggjliv4 said:

https://www.outkick.com/david-chao-md-what-i-think-happened-to-patrick-mahomes-why-he-will-be-fine-play-to-sunday/

Interesting theory and may be best explanation so far

This is what Jay glazer said he thought it was, I believe.  Brachial stun.

Excerpt:

So what happened to Patrick Mahomes?

In my opinion, Mahomes experienced momentary trauma to the carotid sinus area, where the vagus nerve and baroreceptors are located. When people who are afraid of needles or the sight of blood faint, it is often the result of a vasovagal reaction. A direct blow or trauma to this area of the neck, such as the one sustained by Mahomes, can cause the same kind of momentary excitement of the nerve, sending the signal to the brain and causing him to “pass out.” Others in martial arts or police/military maneuvers have described this phenomenon a “brachial stun.” Carotid sinus massage is a medical way to alter a heartbeat through the autonomic nervous system, and it is done by pressing on the same area of the neck that Wilson’s forearm contacted.

I will admit that in my two decades as a NFL team physician, I have never seen this happen on the football field. It is unusual that the Browns linebacker’s forearm got underneath the helmet but above the shoulder pad. The initial blow and sustained pulling on the neck to prevent the first down would be enough to provide a “short circuit,” and the vagus nerve and baroreceptors would then have caused Mahomes to faint and stumble as he got up.

Of course this analysis is from afar, but I have discussed my thoughts with two other previous NFL physicians. They also find my theory plausible and to be the best explanation of the events.

The good news is that there is no long-term worries with this type of issue. There is no risk of CTE, spinal cord or permanent nerve damage. It is a transitory phenomenon.
Mahomes won’t be cleared until later this week, as he needs to go through the five-step protocol as though he has a concussion. The final step includes participating fully in practice. That will likely come by Friday, when he will likely seek final clearance from an independent neuro. Such clearance should come Friday afternoon or Saturday AM.
I would expect the top medical staff of the Chiefs, led by Rick Burkholder, to be creative in adjusting his shoulder pads and helmet or in adding a neck roll to protect Mahomes from a repeat blow

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, kkuenn said:

A pinched nerve and loss of blood along with that and you can lose it. Not a matter of not breathing. If you have ever done MMA it does not take much with the right choke hold.

Not to mention this is a sport so it’s not like he’s expecting it and holding his breath and he is probably winded to some small degree from playing and it’s cold.  If caught at the right time (his exhale) it could happen very very quickly.  Again not claiming it’s not a concussion just a lot going on there to know for certain.  Also standing up quickly with lack of oxygen can easily cause black out symptoms or the appearance of being concussed.   

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

Interesting theory.  I think a crucial point is that he states he has never seen this happen on a football field.  A direct carotid sinus pressure maintained for several seconds slowing heart rate sufficient to do that and happening accidentally seems pretty far-fetched.  Though I wouldn't rule it out, I think that theory is a huge reach.  Usually, the simplest answer proves to be true. In this case that would be that he had a mild concussion. We will never know...unless he has a memory lapse in the next couple of days after practicing. If that happens, it was a concussion, and he won't be playing Sunday.  Let's all hope that this remains a mystery.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, mex said:

holding your breath doesn't stop your heart from pumping blood

constricting the carotid immediately stops blood flow

the 'choked out' deal comes from MMA athletes who sometimes get their opponents down and win by getting them in a choke hold, causing them to black out

now, I'm not saying this happened to PM... I'm just saying that holding your breath is not the same as getting choked out

also, a person can get woozy, or lose their balance simply by standing up too fast from a lying or kneeling position... I know this because it's happened to me while setting tiles

I don’t lay tile for a living but have done it enough to know this is a fact!   Sometimes I’ve gotten bad tunnel vision and almost fallen down if not for a counter or wall nearby lol.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

3 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Interesting theory.  I think a crucial point is that he states he has never seen this happen on a football field.  A direct carotid sinus pressure maintained for several seconds slowing heart rate sufficient to do that and happening accidentally seems pretty far-fetched.  Though I wouldn't rule it out, I think that theory is a huge reach.  Usually, the simplest answer proves to be true. In this case that would be that he had a mild concussion. We will never know...unless he has a memory lapse in the next couple of days after practicing. If that happens, it was a concussion, and he won't be playing Sunday.  Let's all hope that this remains a mystery.

Here’s to hoping!

[azchief21 5,278]

[KCSLC2008 605]

He addresses the nerve blood flow potential cause. He talks about the fencing response that happens with brain trauma.

[sith13 1,746]

Not sure if any of it makes a difference. Mahomes is in concussion protocol and if there's nothing wrong with him then he'll be able to clear the protocols by the Bills game, if there's something wrong then we are screwed regardless of the reasoning. I just wish the Chiefs were vocal about his status but I understand how they could want to leverage it against the Bills. 

[SEMO 6,811]

9 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Interesting theory.  I think a crucial point is that he states he has never seen this happen on a football field.  A direct carotid sinus pressure maintained for several seconds slowing heart rate sufficient to do that and happening accidentally seems pretty far-fetched.  Though I wouldn't rule it out, I think that theory is a huge reach.  Usually, the simplest answer proves to be true. In this case that would be that he had a mild concussion. We will never know...unless he has a memory lapse in the next couple of days after practicing. If that happens, it was a concussion, and he won't be playing Sunday.  Let's all hope that this remains a mystery.

It doesn't have to be direct carotid pressure.  It is a reflex to trauma, caused by nerves that control heart rate.  It is what causes some people to pass out at the sight of blood, etc.  The blood vessels widen, bp drops, and down you go.  I have seen it a dozen times with my youngest son, usually from pain.  Once, we were in a store and he accidentally hit his elbow on a shelf, and down he went.  His doctor said it was a vasovagal syncope.  

Watching Pat get up is exactly what I have seen every time after my son has had this type of episode.  Woozy for a minute, then fine.

Pat is in the concussion protocol because this happened on national tv and the NFL is covering their ass.  I don't blame them, as it was a scary sight for all to see.  I have no issue with the extra precautions.  

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

7 minutes ago, SEMO said:

It doesn't have to be direct carotid pressure.  It is a reflex to trauma, caused by nerves that control heart rate.  It is what causes some people to pass out at the sight of blood, etc.  The blood vessels widen, bp drops, and down you go.  I have seen it a dozen times with my youngest son, usually from pain.  Once, we were in a store and he accidentally hit his elbow on a shelf, and down he went.  His doctor said it was a vasovagal syncope.  

Watching Pat get up is exactly what I have seen every time after my son has had this type of episode.  Woozy for a minute, then fine.

Pat is in the concussion protocol because this happened on national tv and the NFL is covering their ass.  I don't blame them, as it was a scary sight for all to see.  I have no issue with the extra precautions.  

🍻

[DieHard 2,061]

It looked pretty clear to me that he got choked out. I see it all the time at Jiujitsu. It only talked about a second to get woozy from a choke. I think he is fine.

[mex 65,581]

10 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

And Mex, you are not a 25 year old  athlete getting up from the turf in 40 degree weather during a game with all kinds of adrenalin support. 

Are you saying I'm not in shape?!?

I'll have you know when I'm sitting on the couch doing 16 oz curls, I also do squats every time I get up to take a piss. And with my prostate... those are high-rep sets. 

[Adamixoye 604]

8 hours ago, KCSLC2008 said:

He addresses the nerve blood flow potential cause. He talks about the fencing response that happens with brain trauma.

I'm not a medical doctor but I'm not really convinced that's a fencing response based on the one still frame.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

Patrick Mahomes (concussion) will have a "light practice" Wednesday.

Mahomes has "no symptoms" but remains in the concussion protocol. He'll likely be listed as limited or DNP. The Chiefs plan to ramp up Mahomes's reps later in the week. Mahomes is also dealing with a foot injury, but this puts him on track to start in the AFC Championship against the Bills.

SOURCE: NFL Network

[azchief21 5,278]

26 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

Patrick Mahomes (concussion) will have a "light practice" Wednesday.

Mahomes has "no symptoms" but remains in the concussion protocol. He'll likely be listed as limited or DNP. The Chiefs plan to ramp up Mahomes's reps later in the week. Mahomes is also dealing with a foot injury, but this puts him on track to start in the AFC Championship against the Bills.

SOURCE: NFL Network

Patrick's Health Thread took a turn for the good

[artsy 1,137]

1 minute ago, azchief21 said:

Patrick's Health Thread took a turn for the good

Yea..Let's hope it keeps turning in that direction!!

[Balto 723]

1 hour ago, Adamixoye said:

I'm not a medical doctor but I'm not really convinced that's a fencing response based on the one still frame.

I'm not really buying the reasoning for his either.  I think actually hitting your head IS a HUGE reason someone gets a concussion NOT just stopping suddenly.  I mean go ahead and whip your head back and fourth....does that cause a concussion?  OT don't try this...might kill you!

Getting choked out is much more plausible in my eyes.  

[Adamixoye 604]

3 minutes ago, Balto said:

I'm not really buying the reasoning for his either.  I think actually hitting your head IS a HUGE reason someone gets a concussion NOT just stopping suddenly.  I mean go ahead and whip your head back and fourth....does that cause a concussion?  OT don't try this...might kill you!

Getting choked out is much more plausible in my eyes.  

Well, the thing about whiplash possibly causing a concussion and not really needing a direct impact is true based on what I've read, and there was at least a minor impact as far as I can tell.  And if that was a fencing response then I agree it's almost certainly a concussion.  I just don't get how he's so confident it's a fencing response based on some split second of Patrick's arm and leg sticking out like that in one frame.  Seems to me that's just how he fell.

[xen 1,010,218]

12 hours ago, azchief21 said:

[KC Warpaint 3,234]

Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes will indeed practice on Wednesday, but it will be a light workout, according to Ian Rapoport of NFL Network.

Rapoport adds in his report that Mahomes continues to have no concussion symptoms as he tries to clear the league’s five-step protocol before Sunday’s AFC title game against the Buffalo Bills.

Rapoport had additional notes to share on Wednesday morning's edition of NFL Network’s “Good Morning Football.”

Mahomes left Sunday’s AFC Divisional round game against the Cleveland Browns midway through the third quarter after a concussion evaluation. Earlier in the game, he had also appeared to possibly injure his foot.

Chiefs head coach Andy Reid is slated to speak to the media at 1:15 p.m. Arrowhead Time, when we could find out more regarding Mahomes’ status. Even if Reid is mum, the team will be required to list Mahomes’ official status in their daily game injury reports, which begin for the AFC championship later Wednesday afternoon.

[oldtimer 8,683]

practice started a 11:45 it was scheduled to be an outside practice but moved inside..Andy presser at 1:30

[oldtimer 8,683]

Patrick took all the snaps today

[West 6,713]

Thanks OT.

[Chiefmanzada 466]

 

[jetlord 10,207]

Hope that was film from today because CEH is practicing.