Line

[oldtimer 8,686]

59 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

Did we not demolish this team in week 12 with an avg line.   If Mahomes had time last night we would have done the same.    Fix the line and we will be back next year.  Simple as that.  Massage the cap do what you got to do.   

by demolish you mean win by 3?

[jetlord 10,209]

1 hour ago, Lamardirts said:

Sorry fellas meant Trent Williams from the 49ers as a one year stopgap, thought there was rumors of him being cut.

Reality is there will be some quality OL available because of the reduced cap.   I'd imagine there are a few who would take a good bit less to play for a championship.

If the Chiefs had cap space and the other teams had to shed salaries, that would make sense.  But just because some team lets a quality player walk doesn't mean the Chiefs are more able to afford him.  No reason to put hope in FAs this year except for the usual fill ins.  

[kkuenn 3,599]

1 minute ago, jetlord said:

If the Chiefs had cap space and the other teams had to shed salaries, that would make sense.  But just because some team lets a quality player walk doesn't mean the Chiefs are more able to afford him.  No reason to put hope in FAs this year except for the usual fill ins.  

With all we can do to the cap of our players and Veach able to get players signed, I think we can do one good to great type signing. Then draft for the rest. Would like to see the PS potential we have too as depth/competition next year.

[Thegoatee 1,780]

24 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

by demolish you mean win by 3?

Yeah, we got up early and then faded into Andy Ball the rest of the game. Hill should have broken 400 yards, but they played tighter and we played conservative. They also hadn’t had a bye week and were beat up. They got healthy and were a lot better rested in the super bowl.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, oldtimer said:

by demolish you mean win by 3?

You mean us being up 10 with minutes left with a gift fumble, Hardmans TD drop?   And typical Andy taking the foot off?   Yes we destroyed them.    

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, jetlord said:

If the Chiefs had cap space and the other teams had to shed salaries, that would make sense.  But just because some team lets a quality player walk doesn't mean the Chiefs are more able to afford him.  No reason to put hope in FAs this year except for the usual fill ins.  

True but there is a couple moves that could make a lot of cap space.  I agree we won’t be spending like crazy but I do look for one larger fa signing to either play OL, WR, DB, or DE.   Or a couple mid tier guys to play those positions.  That would free up the draft to go bpa.  This year will be lean for this mid tier guys because of the cap so why not come here and play for a contender for a one year deal.   We saw it happen last year with a lot of vet min deals....no reason it won’t continue this year.  

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, Thegoatee said:

Yeah, we got up early and then faded into Andy Ball the rest of the game. Hill should have broken 400 yards, but they played tighter and we played conservative. They also hadn’t had a bye week and were beat up. They got healthy and were a lot better rested in the super bowl.

This is starting to get annoying.  It’s not Andy’s job to slow up.   We don’t put the fear of god in teams because we let up.  The mental side of the game is huge and I wish we would pile it on more often.

[jetlord 10,209]

1 minute ago, Lamardirts said:

True but there is a couple moves that could make a lot of cap space.  I agree we won’t be spending like crazy but I do look for one larger fa signing to either play OL, WR, DB, or DE.   Or a couple mid tier guys to play those positions.  That would free up the draft to go bpa.  This year will be lean for this mid tier guys because of the cap so why not come here and play for a contender for a one year deal.   We saw it happen last year with a lot of vet min deals....no reason it won’t continue this year.  

How many of those one year deals were for quality OTs, or WRs?  Maybe some, but it would be foolish to count on that as a solution to the line problems.  Every team has problems like this and the way around them is to draft shrewdly and stop overpaying veterans.  Teams that are good for the long term aren't afraid to churn the roster with youth and potential starters.

[qnet 1,150]

I have to agree with Jetlord's solution for fixing the line. The Chiefs did as well as they could drafting Fisher in 2013. We all now know how valuable he has been. he's no Willie Roaf, but we needed him Sunday. 

[Palangi 788]

There is Zach Banner who is s free agent.  He is very similar to trent brown.  Banner is only 27 still. He did year his acl in week 1, but should be ready before camp.  

He could play RT moving Niang to LT.

Draft Jackson Carman in round 2. The LT from Clemson who will kick into guard.  Let Rankin and Durant battle for the RG spot. 

LT- Niang 6'6" 320

LG- Carman 6'5" 340

 C - Allegretti 6'4" 320

RG- Rankin 6'5" 320

        Durant 6'6" 335

RT- Banner 6'7" 355

[NCChief 46]

[jetlord 10,209]

27 minutes ago, Palangi said:

There is Zach Banner who is s free agent.  He is very similar to trent brown.  Banner is only 27 still. He did year his acl in week 1, but should be ready before camp.  

He could play RT moving Niang to LT.

Draft Jackson Carman in round 2. The LT from Clemson who will kick into guard.  Let Rankin and Durant battle for the RG spot. 

LT- Niang 6'6" 320

LG- Carman 6'5" 340

 C - Allegretti 6'4" 320

RG- Rankin 6'5" 320

        Durant 6'6" 335

RT- Banner 6'7" 355

Would Niang be any better at LT than a first round pick?  He's played on the right in college and has no more NFL experience than a rookie that's played on the left for several years.  I'd hope Niangs would be a long term solution at  RT.  Good!  One slot filled.  Allegretti is okay for a late round pick.  Maybe he can play OC, but we don't know that yet.  LDT is coming back.  Not great, but an upgrade over Wylie.  That leaves vacancies at LT and OC.  Reiter has to be replaced.  The Chiefs have had success drafting and starting centers in the second/third rounds and several are available for this draft.  That's why I'm arguing for a first round LT.  They can also pick up more help on the IOL later in the draft such as those guys who flashed at senior bowl practice such as Moore and Mienerz.  This isn't rocket surgery, it's common sense. 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

10 minutes ago, jetlord said:

Would Niang be any better at LT than a first round pick?  He's played on the right in college and has no more NFL experience than a rookie that's played on the left for several years.  I'd hope Niangs would be a long term solution at  RT.  Good!  One slot filled.  Allegretti is okay for a late round pick.  Maybe he can play OC, but we don't know that yet. 

So let me make sure I understand. You are OK with the idea of Niang being our RT next season, and this is based on him playing RT in college. But you've repeatedly stated your not sold on the idea of Allegretti playing center, because he last did it...in...college...

[Palangi 788]

47 minutes ago, NCChief said:

Don't forget Reiter

[Palangi 788]

37 minutes ago, jetlord said:

Would Niang be any better at LT than a first round pick?  He's played on the right in college and has no more NFL experience than a rookie that's played on the left for several years.  I'd hope Niangs would be a long term solution at  RT.  Good!  One slot filled.  Allegretti is okay for a late round pick.  Maybe he can play OC, but we don't know that yet.  LDT is coming back.  Not great, but an upgrade over Wylie.  That leaves vacancies at LT and OC.  Reiter has to be replaced.  The Chiefs have had success drafting and starting centers in the second/third rounds and several are available for this draft.  That's why I'm arguing for a first round LT.  They can also pick up more help on the IOL later in the draft such as those guys who flashed at senior bowl practice such as Moore and Mienerz.  This isn't rocket surgery, it's common sense. 

So Niang hasn't played but you want him in for sure.  Allegretti starts most the year and plays really well and you're not sure? 

This isn't rocket science this is common sense? 

[Palangi 788]

27 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

So let me make sure I understand. You are OK with the idea of Niang being our RT next season, and this is based on him playing RT in college. But you've repeatedly stated your not sold on the idea of Allegretti playing center, because he last did it...in...college...

Pure common sense.....

[jetlord 10,209]

1 hour ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

So let me make sure I understand. You are OK with the idea of Niang being our RT next season, and this is based on him playing RT in college. But you've repeatedly stated your not sold on the idea of Allegretti playing center, because he last did it...in...college...

Not really.  You're correct that I base Niang's role based on his college experience.  The deal with Allegretti is that he was drafted to be a center (or so it was reported) but two years into his career, the staff won't play him there in spite of the weakness of Reiter.  What's the reason.  I'm fine with Allegretti as a center when he proves he can play there.  Didn't he get in a few plays in his rookie season?  Can't remember.  Maybe he just needs time to learn to call the protections although he's supposed to be smart.  Maybe the coaches just didn't want to move Reiter although that would be a real mystery.  Maybe a late draft pick just doesn't have the physical skills to be an effective starter there.  When he shows he can be an effective starter at OC, then I'm all for it. 

[jetlord 10,209]

1 hour ago, Palangi said:

So Niang hasn't played but you want him in for sure.  Allegretti starts most the year and plays really well and you're not sure? 

This isn't rocket science this is common sense? 

Nope, Niang is penciled in because he was supposedly a first round quality lineman who dropped because of injury.  He still has to show he can play.  Allegretti started at GUARD out of necessity because Oseleme went down.  I like Allegretti and think he has earned a shot as a starting lineman next year.  Just questioning the assumption that he should automatically be considered the solution at the OC position.  Hope that clears it up.  

[Palangi 788]

37 minutes ago, jetlord said:

Not really.  You're correct that I base Niang's role based on his college experience.  The deal with Allegretti is that he was drafted to be a center (or so it was reported) but two years into his career, the staff won't play him there in spite of the weakness of Reiter.  What's the reason.  I'm fine with Allegretti as a center when he proves he can play there.  Didn't he get in a few plays in his rookie season?  Can't remember.  Maybe he just needs time to learn to call the protections although he's supposed to be smart.  Maybe the coaches just didn't want to move Reiter although that would be a real mystery.  Maybe a late draft pick just doesn't have the physical skills to be an effective starter there.  When he shows he can be an effective starter at OC, then I'm all for it. 

That's because the staff makes interesting decisions sometimes.  

Even Kilgore showed to be better than Reiter when given an opportunity.  Yet they stick with Reiter.  

Rankin has shown to be a better guard than Wylie. Yet we continue to run Wylie out.  Even Durant like better in his one start against San Diego. Yet no opportunity given.  

Neimann playing over anyone is mind numbing.

I don't think we can base abilities on coaching decisions sometimes.  

[sith13 1,746]

The issue that I have with Allegretti is that he has been around for 2 years with us needing someone to step in at OC in various times but was overlooked in every one of them. They may just be considering him as an OG or may be backup IOL in general but I don't get the impression that he's seen as our starting OC in the recent future.

I don't expect Allegretti to be gone, he showed some promise IMO but reminds me of the Kush situation when we thought he would be replacing Hudson only to have him cut in the offseason as our expectations from him may be higher than his value with the staff.

Regardless we seem to need a new OT and a new OG/OC that will start in 2021 so the top 2 picks are more likely but should probably add another interior guy not much  later to replace LDT in 2022, if not sooner. 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

6 hours ago, sith13 said:

The issue that I have with Allegretti is that he has been around for 2 years with us needing someone to step in at OC in various times but was overlooked in every one of them. They may just be considering him as an OG or may be backup IOL in general but I don't get the impression that he's seen as our starting OC in the recent future.

I don't expect Allegretti to be gone, he showed some promise IMO but reminds me of the Kush situation when we thought he would be replacing Hudson only to have him cut in the offseason as our expectations from him may be higher than his value with the staff.

Regardless we seem to need a new OT and a new OG/OC that will start in 2021 so the top 2 picks are more likely but should probably add another interior guy not much  later to replace LDT in 2022, if not sooner. 

So the flipside of that would be that to us as fans Wylie has been our worst lineman for 2 full years. But the Chiefs, despite several bench options later in the year, refused to take him out of the lineup. In fact, they found a way to keep him IN the lineup and moved him to a more important position in the SB. 

By this same logic, this would indicate the Chiefs think quite highly of him, and bringing him back in free agency will be a priority. No?

[Handswarmer 645]

Orlando Brown Jr might be available....

[sith13 1,746]

23 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

So the flipside of that would be that to us as fans Wylie has been our worst lineman for 2 full years. But the Chiefs, despite several bench options later in the year, refused to take him out of the lineup. In fact, they found a way to keep him IN the lineup and moved him to a more important position in the SB. 

By this same logic, this would indicate the Chiefs think quite highly of him, and bringing him back in free agency will be a priority. No?

They probably thought Wylie in that situation was better than the alternatives or really liked the continuity. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually thought Wylie was the best of the bunch at all, would explain all the love he got from the coaches. 

The same could be said of Reiter ahead of Kilgore. The fact that they have been ranking Allegretti behind these guys in our depth chart doesn't lead me to believe that Allegretti could or should start in 2021. May be he does but wouldn't pencil him in as a starter just yet. 

[Palangi 788]

11 minutes ago, sith13 said:

They probably thought Wylie in that situation was better than the alternatives or really liked the continuity. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually thought Wylie was the best of the bunch at all, would explain all the love he got from the coaches. 

The same could be said of Reiter ahead of Kilgore. The fact that they have been ranking Allegretti behind these guys in our depth chart doesn't lead me to believe that Allegretti could or should start in 2021. May be he does but wouldn't pencil him in as a starter just yet. 

A big difference in Allegretti and Kush is college.  Kush came from a very small college.  Allegretti came from the big 10 where he proved to be one of the top lineman there.  Playing center and Guard.  His senior year he had the top pass blocking grade in the big 10. 

Don't read into who is playing.  Our coaches make interesting decisions on playing time sometimes.  

When Osemele went down it was Remmers that got the first crack.  It was in the next game when Schwartz went down moving Remmers to RT and forcing the coaches to play Allegretti. Who ended up being one of our higher grades lineman. 

Look at LB should we be under the assumption Willie Gay can't play? I mean the coaches went Neimann over him all year.  Even with injuries to Hitchens and Wilson. They went with Neimann.

[sith13 1,746]

14 minutes ago, Palangi said:

A big difference in Allegretti and Kush is college.  Kush came from a very small college.  Allegretti came from the big 10 where he proved to be one of the top lineman there.  Playing center and Guard.  His senior year he had the top pass blocking grade in the big 10. 

Don't read into who is playing.  Our coaches make interesting decisions on playing time sometimes.  

When Osemele went down it was Remmers that got the first crack.  It was in the next game when Schwartz went down moving Remmers to RT and forcing the coaches to play Allegretti. Who ended up being one of our higher grades lineman. 

Look at LB should we be under the assumption Willie Gay can't play? I mean the coaches went Neimann over him all year.  Even with injuries to Hitchens and Wilson. They went with Neimann.

Again, not saying he can't play OC just saying we can't really pencil him as the starter. 

Unlike Gay Allegretti has been here for multiple seasons and hasn't really entered the OC rotation at any point. He might even be a career OG in the NFL. 

Gay was a rookie and they don't seem to like his state as one, if he's still a backup in 2021 I wouldn't consider him a starter for 2022 this time next year.