People who should be gone before next year

[Palangi 788]

1 hour ago, DefensiveMan said:

Nieman is who he is , but watching this...forget the title. Sorenson was absolutely getting mismatched all over the field. Bucs attacked him.

No doubt.  He had always been a liability.  He will make a big splash play here and there.  But he gives so much more that it isn't worth his price.  

He needs to be replaced. 

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

On 2/8/2021 at 6:12 PM, Lamardirts said:

You know if Hardman doesn’t line up offsides and Andy does call a TO it’s 10-6 going into half.   10-9 after our first drive in the 3rd.  The defense didn’t lose this game for us.   While Jones penalty hurt it didn’t kill us.  Clark played well early on and then when they had a big lead they ran big personnel and took advantage of our linebackers because they had the lead and there weren’t any opportunities for thise guys to make huge plays.  
 

As to your question.  CJ is very tradable but Frank is not.   We are stuck with him for 2 more years.   Best way to get the most out of them is put someone who can pressure opposite Clark.   You win in this league by generating pressure and our offense normally puts pressure on other teams to score and pass.   The boneheaded decision of Hardman, Reid and the bad refs put our defense in a ridiculous hole.  

10-9 with half the 3rd to play is anyone’s ball game.    Two idiotic plays (offsides and that TO).   Sure the refs screwed us but those two plays we brought on ourself and cost us the most.   
 

 

This is where i disagree, frank clark is a sunk cost, don’t think about helping him by investing more into edge rush from the other end. Good qbs like brady get the ball out before edge rush gets there. Our d is getting killed by terrible unathletic lb play, and a lack of smart run stuffing fatties up front.

by all means throw some mid round picks at young d ends with some upside, but this notion of spending 20 plus million dollars of the cap or first round picks on edge rush is not something i agree with.

[sith13 1,746]

2 hours ago, DefensiveMan said:

Nieman is who he is , but watching this...forget the title. Sorenson was absolutely getting mismatched all over the field. Bucs attacked him.

That's what Dirty Dan is. He comes up with huge plays from time to time and definitely makes an impact but he's also a consistent liability. 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

This is where i disagree, frank clark is a sunk cost, don’t think about helping him by investing more into edge rush from the other end. Good qbs like brady get the ball out before edge rush gets there. Our d is getting killed by terrible unathletic lb play, and a lack of smart run stuffing fatties up front.

by all means throw some mid round picks at young d ends with some upside, but this notion of spending 20 plus million dollars of the cap or first round picks on edge rush is not something i agree with.

Our D didn't get killed hardly at all last year and that is with the worst LB crew in the NFL.  Why is that?   Because normally our Oline is healthy or good enough to force team into scoring with us.   It would have been no different on Sunday had Fisher not got hurt.  

Yet teams with 2 good edge rushers and good inside push are the only teams that give us problems.   Crazy how bad our LB's have been yet we were and offside from going to three SB in a row.  Brady didn't do crap in that game until we went offsides and he got bailed out by refs and Andy calling a TO and chucking up a ball hoping for a flag.    Hitchens and Gay are sufficient at LB then add a mid round coverage LB or a S/LB hybrid that can actually cover.    You stop putting pass rushers up front and it will compromise everything behind it.    

Had our Oline been healthy they would have never been able to run the ball like they did and even then they scored a whopping 10 points in the 2nd half.    

A first round edge rusher allows us to move on from Frank in 2 years.   It also maximizes that front 4.      

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

On 2/7/2021 at 9:39 PM, Thegoatee said:

Get rid of Toub. That is one dude I want gone. 

He has been considered an ST genius because of his multiple years of top tier ST's.  I would wait to see if ST's improve in a normal injury year.  When your best guys have to play D or O, you just don't have the personnel. You don't get rid of a guy with his record after one bad year

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

On 2/7/2021 at 9:45 PM, jetlord said:

Ward, Neiman, Pennel can leave.  Maybe resign Breeland if he's not overpriced.

I don't like Breeland. Too handsy.  Too many penalties.  He has some great plays, but no more than the penalties that hurt us. That being said, the league needs to let CB's play.  Increasing NFL revenue by favoring the passing game is inevitable, but at some point enough is enough.  These receivers have learned how to make things look like PI all the time but should be called more often for pushing off IMO.

[soonerborn77 276]

9 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

Our D didn't get killed hardly at all last year and that is with the worst LB crew in the NFL.  Why is that?   Because normally our Oline is healthy or good enough to force team into scoring with us.   It would have been no different on Sunday had Fisher not got hurt.  

Yet teams with 2 good edge rushers and good inside push are the only teams that give us problems.   Crazy how bad our LB's have been yet we were and offside from going to three SB in a row.  Brady didn't do crap in that game until we went offsides and he got bailed out by refs and Andy calling a TO and chucking up a ball hoping for a flag.    Hitchens and Gay are sufficient at LB then add a mid round coverage LB or a S/LB hybrid that can actually cover.    You stop putting pass rushers up front and it will compromise everything behind it.    

Had our Oline been healthy they would have never been able to run the ball like they did and even then they scored a whopping 10 points in the 2nd half.    

A first round edge rusher allows us to move on from Frank in 2 years.   It also maximizes that front 4.      

I know it was an anomaly and that loser team's SB but the home loss to the Faiders was I think this blueprint people talk about and that is a massively athletic TE who toasted DIrty Dan and Nieman....

[oldtimer 8,686]

47 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

I don't like Breeland. Too handsy.  Too many penalties.  He has some great plays, but no more than the penalties that hurt us. That being said, the league needs to let CB's play.  Increasing NFL revenue by favoring the passing game is inevitable, but at some point enough is enough.  These receivers have learned how to make things look like PI all the time but should be called more often for pushing off IMO.

agreed but to be fair in Breeland's case and others if you play  "sticky" coverage  you going to get those calls .. you live by the sword and you die by the sword..just cant have it both ways. 

[jetlord 10,209]

1 hour ago, Fmbl2187 said:

I don't like Breeland. Too handsy.  Too many penalties.  He has some great plays, but no more than the penalties that hurt us. That being said, the league needs to let CB's play.  Increasing NFL revenue by favoring the passing game is inevitable, but at some point enough is enough.  These receivers have learned how to make things look like PI all the time but should be called more often for pushing off IMO.

Breeland is handsy, but each game he has to figure out how the officials are calling the game.  Some let them play and some love to throw flags.  In the SB, there are usually fewer flags.  In this one, there were more.  Can't blame a player for pushing the limits until it becomes obvious that the refs are flag happy.  Comparing the second quarter to the second half, I"m guessing the refs got the word at halftime that they were over strict.  

[oldtimer 8,686]

3 minutes ago, jetlord said:

Breeland is handsy, but each game he has to figure out how the officials are calling the game.  Some let them play and some love to throw flags.  In the SB, there are usually fewer flags.  In this one, there were more.  Can't blame a player for pushing the limits until it becomes obvious that the refs are flag happy.  Comparing the second quarter to the second half, I"m guessing the refs got the word at halftime that they were over strict.  

I hope they were told a bit more forcefully than that but it was too little too late

[Thegoatee 1,780]

2 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

He has been considered an ST genius because of his multiple years of top tier ST's.  I would wait to see if ST's improve in a normal injury year.  When your best guys have to play D or O, you just don't have the personnel. You don't get rid of a guy with his record after one bad year

He was a genius thanks to Devin Hester. With kickoffs being almost irrelevant now, it is punting, field goals, and punt returns. Punt returns have been a disaster area for KC. DAT screwed us on field position. Hardman, if he actually catches and holds the ball, screws us on field position. Butker is wack on extra points. I’d move along.

[Wolfscall 204]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

Breeland is handsy, but each game he has to figure out how the officials are calling the game.  Some let them play and some love to throw flags.  In the SB, there are usually fewer flags.  In this one, there were more.  Can't blame a player for pushing the limits until it becomes obvious that the refs are flag happy.  Comparing the second quarter to the second half, I"m guessing the refs got the word at halftime that they were over strict.  

If you haven't seen this, it's worth the read. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/02/08/carl-cheffers-super-bowl-referee/

[moons314 2,463]

16 hours ago, sith13 said:

That's what Dirty Dan is. He comes up with huge plays from time to time and definitely makes an impact but he's also a consistent liability. 

He's not a consistent liability.  Name a safety in the NFL that's not going to get worked trying to cover Gronk, Kelce or Kittle. 

[Palangi 788]

1 hour ago, moons314 said:

He's not a consistent liability.  Name a safety in the NFL that's not going to get worked trying to cover Gronk, Kelce or Kittle. 

Gronkowski only had 2 games where he went over 100 yards receiving.  Can you guys which 2? They are the same team.  

He didn't torch anyone this year other than that team

[Balto 723]

People who should be gone next season:  Handswarmer

[moons314 2,463]

1 hour ago, Palangi said:

Gronkowski only had 2 games where he went over 100 yards receiving.  Can you guys which 2? They are the same team.  

He didn't torch anyone this year other than that team

That's a major oversimplification.  Brady also struggled in the first 12 games, in which they were 7-5.  Once they got rolling,  TB had more talent outside at receiver than he probably ever had at any one time in NE, so of course Gronk wasn't gonna be the focal point.  The Chiefs are pretty good at corner, which turned the attention back toward Gronk.  Of course even the tiniest bit of pass rush would have helped.  

[Palangi 788]

27 minutes ago, moons314 said:

That's a major oversimplification.  Brady also struggled in the first 12 games, in which they were 7-5.  Once they got rolling,  TB had more talent outside at receiver than he probably ever had at any one time in NE, so of course Gronk wasn't gonna be the focal point.  The Chiefs are pretty good at corner, which turned the attention back toward Gronk.  Of course even the tiniest bit of pass rush would have helped.  

Still only 2 games against the same team. 

You put gronkowski in the list with kelce and kittle on who wouldn't get worked by.  

I was only staying he only roasted twice and against the same team. With Sorenson and Neimann as the main defenders. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

12 hours ago, Palangi said:

Still only 2 games against the same team. 

You put gronkowski in the list with kelce and kittle on who wouldn't get worked by.  

I was only staying he only roasted twice and against the same team. With Sorenson and Neimann as the main defenders. 

Makes sense, too.

[jetlord 10,209]

17 hours ago, Palangi said:

Still only 2 games against the same team. 

You put gronkowski in the list with kelce and kittle on who wouldn't get worked by.  

I was only staying he only roasted twice and against the same team. With Sorenson and Neimann as the main defenders. 

Sorenson is a below average safety that makes a play once in a while.  Neiman is just a below average player.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

7 minutes ago, jetlord said:

Sorenson is a below average safety that makes a play once in a while.  Neiman is just a below average player.

Yeah.  Few couid cover Gronk in his prime.  Now, the best can, but mediocre guys still can't reliably.  Still, his production in the game was not really great.  Nowhere on Kelce's level.

Sorenson is useful on special teams and is occasionally a killer on defense when he gets up a head of steam and destroys somebody.  But he doesn't have the smarts to coordinate with a well-coached and coordinated defense.  Kind of a gadget guy except for special teams.  I still think it is good for any team to have one guy that puts fear into opponents.  I guarantee that receivers  and TE's are always keeping a close eye out for him just out of sheer self-preservation.  Definitely true on ST's. If there is roster space, he is a cheap guy to keep on the roster, just for the fear factor.

[DefensiveMan 758]

16 minutes ago, jetlord said:

Sorenson is a below average safety that makes a play once in a while.  Neiman is just a below average player.

Yup I'm glad we can see our weaknesses now. Sometimes it takes a SB loss to make changes a la 2018 AFC Championship Season.. 

 

[jetlord 10,209]

3 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Yeah.  Few couid cover Gronk in his prime.  Now, the best can, but mediocre guys still can't reliably.  Still, his production in the game was not really great.  Nowhere on Kelce's level.

Sorenson is useful on special teams and is occasionally a killer on defense when he gets up a head of steam and destroys somebody.  But he doesn't have the smarts to coordinate with a well-coached and coordinated defense.  Kind of a gadget guy except for special teams.  I still think it is good for any team to have one guy that puts fear into opponents.  I guarantee that receivers  and TE's are always keeping a close eye out for him just out of sheer self-preservation.  Definitely true on ST's. If there is roster space, he is a cheap guy to keep on the roster, just for the fear factor.

$4.75 million isn't cheap for that level of play or special teams help.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

1 hour ago, jetlord said:

$4.75 million isn't cheap for that level of play or special teams help.

Yeah.  That's too high.  I thought it was less than that. You know, that hit he made in the Cleveland game in the end zone, forcing the ball loose got us to the Buffalo game.  We would not have gotten to the AFC championship without that, and of course, the Super Bowl.  Just sayin'

[jetlord 10,209]

1 hour ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Yeah.  That's too high.  I thought it was less than that. You know, that hit he made in the Cleveland game in the end zone, forcing the ball loose got us to the Buffalo game.  We would not have gotten to the AFC championship without that, and of course, the Super Bowl.  Just sayin'

Not so sure about that.  There was a half left to go in the CLE game.  The thing is that one good hit that stops one play, while spectacular, doesn't always make up for the several other plays where a faster guy might have prevented the other team from sustaining a drive.  We can't extrapolate what would happen if any single play wasn't made, only go by the whole body of work.   KC wouldn't have won the SB last year without Clark but that doesn't mean he's worth $20 million every year. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

1 hour ago, jetlord said:

Not so sure about that.  There was a half left to go in the CLE game.  The thing is that one good hit that stops one play, while spectacular, doesn't always make up for the several other plays where a faster guy might have prevented the other team from sustaining a drive.  We can't extrapolate what would happen if any single play wasn't made, only go by the whole body of work.   KC wouldn't have won the SB last year without Clark but that doesn't mean he's worth $20 million every year. 

You are WAY too logical.  I was having fun thinking about that, but you ruined it. 🙁