Would Reid retire?

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

16 hours ago, timmy_6262 said:

So lets say that they absolutely throw the book at Britt and he sees some serious jail time.  Which is possible with his checkered past.  Does anyone think that Reid would walk away from football?  Would anyone want him to leave after seeing what happened to him in the Super Bowl?  That man was a shell of himself out there.  Thoughts?

Answer:  NO.   It is his own life and his passion.  If you think otherwise, then you don't know people.

[reesebobby 5,663]

1 hour ago, sith13 said:

Not sure if we were ever set at OL. Chiefs have been playing without a real OC for 2 seasons, nothing at LG and a rapidly declining RG for about 3 years. We simply spent a late 3rd for Niang and a 7th for Allegretti to address those issues (including lack of a swing tackle). 

I always thought Dorsey did a very good job of finding linemen. I don't like his resignings like Fisher with 2 more years under control, and LDT but looking back he did care about Smith's safety.

LT - 1st overall for Fisher

OG - Traded for a known commodity in Grubbs, drafted Fulton, LDT, Ehinger

OC - 2nd for Morse

RT - Signed the best in the NFL in FA at a young age

I think we need a similar approach for the OL and more importantly have continuous upgrades which is the primary issue right now as we have neglected the line for a few years now and need a bunch of bodies there. 

To be fair to Veach, Dorsey left him with a 12 million a year ish Fisher contract an 8 million ish a year LDT contract and 9 million a year ish Schwartz contract.  And not a lot of draft picks in 2018.  Kind of limits what you can do on the OL a little.  And none of the 3 were available when we really needed them. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

15 hours ago, timmy_6262 said:

If he does nothing to fix the oline I am pretty sure he will get dragged out of the building by fans

They will draft a tackle, but don't get panicky or exaggerate things.  Fisher will be back.  Osemele will heal up.  Niang will finally be on the roster to learn, which is the same as a draft pick this year. LDT will return.  Remember, too, that Mahomes makes O-linemen better with his mental processing speed and fast receivers, and he will be able to move better when his foot injury heals up.  To me, the biggest priority right now is CENTER.  Anyway, Reid is not a dummy.  He and Veach both decide, and some of that is determined by the strengthj of the draft at various positions.  We have an extra 3rd or maybe two.  3rd rounders often turn out remarkable, while first rounders are busts. Look at what third rounder Kelce has become.  Look at Sneed. The middle and late rounders often determine what teams end up dominant or not.  But the O-line will mostly heal itself by simply being there next season.  We will probably pick up a solid, though not great, Tackle in free agency considering Schwartz.  All we need is a decent one.

[Adamixoye 604]

8 minutes ago, soonerborn77 said:

Not to nit pick but he was 1 year removed from being the 2nd highest paid guard in the league and 2 years removed from back to back pro bowls.  It was his injury and fight with the Jets that made  people back off.  Sorry, I shouldn't have said 'in free agency' but when healthy he was a top guard.  Also have to remember, when you talk about drafting in the first 4 rounds last year was the first time in 3 years we even had a first round pick.  Of course I do agree, I would rather have had someone on the oline instead of Hardman (hindsight speak).

Yes now is the time to invest, when we took Niang we thought we were doing that.  We were honestly set at the oline position but when you lose that many guys there's no NFL team that can survive that amount of injuries, especially when our LT goes out two weeks before the SB.

Exactly.

The point isn't that we couldn't improve the OL or that we've made all the right decisions.  But resources were invested and the OL wasn't a disaster until all of these things hit.  If we have our OL from last year, or even most of our OL from last year, that's a world of difference.

Consider every unit on this team.  In every unit there are holes.  But in every unit you can also say we've invested.  The question is whether or not moves have worked out:

• QB: obviously we invested in Mahomes.  You could complain about how we've handled the backups, I guess?
• OL:  we had three pretty highly paid guys.  Do we expect big contracts for the whole starting OL, just to have them get injured anyway?  You could complain about some of our choices or wanting to use more draft capital but it hasn't been "ignored."
• RB:  invested a moderate amount of money in Damien Williams.  1st round pick on CEH was too much investment IMO.  Scoured the waiver wire for flyers on McCoy and Bell.
• WR/TEs:  Big money for the top guys (Hill / Kelce), and a guy who hasn't been reliable (Watkins), and high round draft pick who has flashed but has problems (Hardman).  And yet everyone still wants more weapons.
• DL:  two REALLY high-paid guys (Jones and Clark), some medium-paid guys (Okafor and Ogbah last year), and they've done some roster turning and waiver work to find guys like Suggs, Wharton, Dana, etc.  And most of us might argue they're still underpeforming.
• LB:  Invested resources in the last few years in guys like Hitchens and Ragland, and then a high draft pick on Gay.  Again, resources invested, bad decisions like thinking Niemann isn't a net negative.
• DB:  Big contract for Honey Badger, high draft pick for Thornhill, lots of great roster turning and late round gems to find Ward, Breeland, Sneed, Fenton.  Probably the fewest resources invested but when you are actually nailing finding those gems you can get away with it.
• ST:  We probably pay Butker too much, so can't say we haven't invested.  Question is if he deserves it.  Got Townsend to get rid of Colquitt's contract and that didn't necessarily turn out great.

The question is not whether or not we've invested enough, it's whether we've invested correctly.  Everywhere on this team, I think you see we've tried to put resources, there has been nothing that has just been flat-out ignored.  The more you start investing in one area, then other areas.  You think we really need a second awesome TE?  That would be nice, but then that's less money and/or one fewer draft pick to find a coverage LB or fix the line.

TL;DR just not a lot of realism in this thread about how you have to allocate and spread around resources.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

1 hour ago, soonerborn77 said:

Not to nit pick but he was 1 year removed from being the 2nd highest paid guard in the league and 2 years removed from back to back pro bowls.  It was his injury and fight with the Jets that made  people back off.  Sorry, I shouldn't have said 'in free agency' but when healthy he was a top guard.  Also have to remember, when you talk about drafting in the first 4 rounds last year was the first time in 3 years we even had a first round pick.  Of course I do agree, I would rather have had someone on the oline instead of Hardman (hindsight speak).

Yes now is the time to invest, when we took Niang we thought we were doing that.  We were honestly set at the oline position but when you lose that many guys there's no NFL team that can survive that amount of injuries, especially when our LT goes out two weeks before the SB.

Not just Hardman. Speaks, Kpass, Saunders, etc. Hindsight is 20/20. But some of these should've been used for o-line.

[soonerborn77 276]

Just now, Iluvhouse24 said:

Not just Hardman. Speaks, Kpass, Saunders, etc. Hindsight is 20/20. But some of these should've been used for o-line.

Yup, agree on those, unfortunately at that time we were chasing defensive help.  I hope we don't do the same chasing oline help....

[reesebobby 5,663]

2 minutes ago, soonerborn77 said:

Yup, agree on those, unfortunately at that time we were chasing defensive help.  I hope we don't do the same chasing oline help....

Yeah, he took over a complete dumpster fire of a defense, changed coordinator and switched from a 3-4 to a 4-3.  That has to be considered when looking at those first couple off seasons.

[Biggjliv4 1,292]

Personally, I hope Veach intervenes and calls the problem of loyalty to players out. Reid is a great coach, but has blind spots as well, it's Veach job to help him there.  Not sure what to make of the tunnel vision approach to the SB of only anticipating man coverage and not adjusting our having a plan B. I'm going to toss that up to his mind being off from his son.  But Bienemy should have had that handle, I almost put that all in him.  When the boss is off, you got to step up and lead during those times. Be a huge red flag if I'm a GM looking to hire a HC. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

21 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Not just Hardman. Speaks, Kpass, Saunders, etc. Hindsight is 20/20. But some of these should've been used for o-line.

Speaks and KPass were picked for their edge speed and pass rushing potential.  Those were seemingly the biggest needs at that time.  If anything has been wrong with our drafts, it has been the tendency to draft too many projects, counting on a brilliant coaching staff to mould them quickly.  We need to start drafting mainly 4 year college starters at positions of need,so that they can step right in. If you spend the first two years of a "project" moving them around to different positions, how can they ever develop?

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

Too me, Hardman's weakness is all in his slow brain.  He just doesn't have the smarts or concentration.  He makes one stupid mistake after another. Doesn't keep his eye on the ball, spending too much of his limited concentration on the guys bearing down on him instead of looking the ball into his hands and securing it.  He wants to juke the first tackler and be a hero instead of avoiding a catastrophe. He thinks he can just outrun people on kickoff or punt returns, so he doesn't call for a fair catch when he should have. Gives up on plays too quickly.on deeper routes. He has been mentally very slow to learn routes as well. 

The scouts were looking too much at his speed and athleticism and should have been giving him an IQ test instead...or maybe an MPI.

[oldtimer 8,686]

31 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Too me, Hardman's weakness is all in his slow brain.  He just doesn't have the smarts or concentration.  He makes one stupid mistake after another. Doesn't keep his eye on the ball, spending too much of his limited concentration on the guys bearing down on him instead of looking the ball into his hands and securing it.  He wants to juke the first tackler and be a hero instead of avoiding a catastrophe. He thinks he can just outrun people on kickoff or punt returns, so he doesn't call for a fair catch when he should have. Gives up on plays too quickly.on deeper routes. He has been mentally very slow to learn routes as well. 

The scouts were looking too much at his speed and athleticism and should have been giving him an IQ test instead...or maybe an MPI.

agreed from start to finish .. that being said  that pick was all about paranoia of losing  Tyreek and I'm sure the staff thought he'd learn..well he hasn't and he needs to go. 

[sith13 1,746]

1 hour ago, reesebobby said:

To be fair to Veach, Dorsey left him with a 12 million a year ish Fisher contract an 8 million ish a year LDT contract and 9 million a year ish Schwartz contract.  And not a lot of draft picks in 2018.  Kind of limits what you can do on the OL a little.  And none of the 3 were available when we really needed them. 

He also left Veach with the best player in the NFL. Both Fisher and Schwartz did well when on the field, Veach simply had to fix the interior OL and prepare for the replacement of these aging guys and watch Mahomes light the NFL on fire. 

2018 draft was a total waste when there was no OC on the roster but Reiter, Wasted quite a few picks on other guys as well while the IOL kept being the biggest weakness. 

[reesebobby 5,663]

8 minutes ago, sith13 said:

He also left Veach with the best player in the NFL. Both Fisher and Schwartz did well when on the field, Veach simply had to fix the interior OL and prepare for the replacement of these aging guys and watch Mahomes light the NFL on fire. 

2018 draft was a total waste when there was no OC on the roster but Reiter, Wasted quite a few picks on other guys as well while the IOL kept being the biggest weakness. 

I didn't say he left the cupboard bare, just that there were a lot of dollars invested in the line at the time and a defense that was in shambles.  Those three guys had big contracts and big dead cap money. And Morse was still at center at the 2018 draft.   And none of them were "aging".  We were all excited at the time about LDT.  So it seemed like a fairly decent line at the time.  And it was the line for some of the best offense in the history of the game.  But this year they got blown up and it's time to deal with it. 

[sith13 1,746]

9 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

I didn't say he left the cupboard bare, just that there were a lot of dollars invested in the line at the time and a defense that was in shambles.  Those three guys had big contracts and big dead cap money. And Morse was still at center at the 2018 draft.   And none of them were "aging".  We were all excited at the time about LDT.  So it seemed like a fairly decent line at the time.  And it was the line for some of the best offense in the history of the game.  But this year they got blown up and it's time to deal with it. 

I agree this is the build it or deal with the huge issues of the OL. Pushed back for quite a while. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

5 hours ago, sith13 said:

I agree this is the build it or deal with the huge issues of the OL. Pushed back for quite a while. 

At least we won a Super Bowl for the first time in a half century LOL.

[oldtimer 8,686]

2 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

At least we won a Super Bowl for the first time in a half century LOL.

yea if 4 years ago we were told we'd experiance 3 AFC CG  come out 2-1 and 2 SB's and come out 1-1..we'd said Hell yea! Thats why I dont get much of the butt hurt but then they may not of seem what we had seen in the late 70's early 80's

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

Remember that we are going to have extra third round picks.  Maybe as many as 3 over the next two year.  With good player scouting and evaluation, these problems can be fixed.

[Biggjliv4 1,292]

6 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Remember that we are going to have extra third round picks.  Maybe as many as 3 over the next two year.  With good player scouting and evaluation, these problems can be fixed.

Too bad nobody hired EB, be a huge help this year if we got those picks. Could care either way otherwise. 

[jetlord 10,209]

On 2/11/2021 at 10:53 AM, oldtimer said:

agreed from start to finish .. that being said  that pick was all about paranoia of losing  Tyreek and I'm sure the staff thought he'd learn..well he hasn't and he needs to go. 

Agree, but then we are reminded of other players that took several years to get it.  DJ comes to mind.  Can Hardman get it together?  Maybe not, but the Chiefs have him cheap for two more years and he has no trade value.  Someone needs to get in his ear and convince him to stop trying to win the game by himself and just do what he's trained to do.  Look the ball into your hands.  Secure the ball before trying to make the first guy miss.  Run out every route as if Mahomes will throw it to you late.  Situational awareness on when to fair catch.   How hard can that be?  If he's really brain dead or unwilling to take instruction, then by all means get rid of him.  If he has a chance to figure it out, then he could still be a worthwhile target for Mahomes.  

[Adamixoye 604]

The suggestion that we should cut Hardman now is insane.  Hardman is obviously worth a roster spot while he's on his rookie contract.  He has two years to prove he's worth keeping beyond that, and at what price.

[oldtimer 8,686]

2 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

The suggestion that we should cut Hardman now is insane.  Hardman is obviously worth a roster spot while he's on his rookie contract.  He has two years to prove he's worth keeping beyond that, and at what price.

[xen 1,010,220]

17 hours ago, Adamixoye said:

The suggestion that we should cut Hardman now is insane.  Hardman is obviously worth a roster spot while he's on his rookie contract.  He has two years to prove he's worth keeping beyond that, and at what price.

Well, you know.  We only won 25 of our last 27.  Obviously Reid needs to retire and we should cut the whole team except Pat.  They're not getting the job done.  They only had 2 of the best 3 seasons in the entire Chiefs history the last 2 years.  What a bunch of bums.