Does a Super Bowl appearance or win forgive a bad contract for K.C. Chiefs?

[Handswarmer 645]

13 hours ago, AFCWEST said:

The Kansas City Chiefs are finalizing a one-year deal with veteran safety Daniel Sorensen, according to Herbie Teope of The Kansas City Star.

 

For the second season in a row, the highlight of Sorensen’s year came in the team’s Divisional round playoff game. His thunderous hit on Cleveland Browns wide receiver Rashard Higgins forced a fumble at the 1-yard line and into the end zone, creating a touchback rather than a second-quarter touchdown. The Chiefs eventually won by five points after Patrick Mahomes had to depart through the league’s concussion protocol.

In 2020, Sorensen made a $3.6 million base salary with a $1 million signing bonus for a cap hit of $4.75 million. In 15 games (11 starts), he finished with 91 tackles (68 solo), five passes defensed, two forced fumbles and three interceptions.

The numbers on his contract for 2021 are still to come.

Helmet to helmet. Textbook. Should have been a flag.

[SEMO 6,811]

1 hour ago, Handswarmer said:

Helmet to helmet. Textbook. Should have been a flag.

KC received more than enough payback from the refs in the superbowl.

[Handswarmer 645]

1 hour ago, SEMO said:

KC received more than enough payback from the refs in the superbowl.

oiy vey😣

[Thegoatee 1,780]

14 hours ago, xen said:

 

Technically aren't you already complaining?

😜

You got me. Though, I’ve been scratching my head before he ever took the field. I think my beef is just the philosophy of paying defensive players $100+ million. Those contracts never seem to work for any team.

[Thegoatee 1,780]

14 hours ago, jetlord said:

Don't mind Sorenson coming back as long as his contract isn't guaranteed and it's at $3 million or less.   Like the guy.  Like his intensity.  Don't like his speed.  

The deal and situation seems fine. He just needs to not be a defacto linebacker playing 50% of the snaps. Though he still plays the box better than Niemann.

[jetlord 10,209]

35 minutes ago, Thegoatee said:

The deal and situation seems fine. He just needs to not be a defacto linebacker playing 50% of the snaps. Though he still plays the box better than Niemann.

It's hard not to have nightmares of Dirty Dan chasing hopelessly after Gronk. 

[Joe_Chief 1,092]

4 minutes ago, jetlord said:

It's hard not to have nightmares of Dirty Dan chasing hopelessly after Gronk. 

There is that....

[kkuenn 3,598]

1 hour ago, Thegoatee said:

You got me. Though, I’ve been scratching my head before he ever took the field. I think my beef is just the philosophy of paying defensive players $100+ million. Those contracts never seem to work for any team.

I don't know, I would take Aaron Donald's contract.

[Thegoatee 1,780]

Just now, kkuenn said:

I don't know, I would take Aaron Donald's contract.

Name other defensive players you’d pay $100 mil to though? Though, the Rams are teetering on win or blow up the roster.

[kkuenn 3,598]

Just now, Thegoatee said:

Name other defensive players you’d pay $100 mil to though? Though, the Rams are teetering on win or blow up the roster.

Bosa and Mack. I think Von Miller earned his too.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

Justin Houston....oh wait

[jetlord 10,209]

6 hours ago, Thegoatee said:

Name other defensive players you’d pay $100 mil to though? Though, the Rams are teetering on win or blow up the roster.

In their prime?  Palamalu, J.J. Watt.  There's some players who just take over a game.  Clark hasn't been it, but they Chiefs would be 52 years without a SB title without him IMHO. 

[sith13 1,746]

18 hours ago, Thegoatee said:

Name other defensive players you’d pay $100 mil to though? Though, the Rams are teetering on win or blow up the roster.

Some players not only perform at an elite level consistently but also make others around them better. It's much easier to identify those among QBs but there are defenders that are at that level. I wouldn't mind giving such a contract to any position on defense that can actually do that. 

Clark is a very good DE and has grown in the position consistently in Seattle. The problem with him is that even though he can dominate whomever he is facing he doesn't elevate a defense or a position group to the next level. He was one of the better DEs in the NFL in 2019 and was instrumental for the SB run but if you ask me he's not elite and hasn't been so any time in his career. However I think overpaying Clark helped us make the defensive switch and win the SB in 2019. So I hate his contract but it's one of those contracts that a fan can stomach for the ultimate prize. 

If you ask me the only player on our defense that's close to elite is HB. He's not there yet but he can actually make others around him better and his presence is one of the key reasons we are getting so much production from our young DBs. Thornhill had the makings of a special player but after the injury I think he just became a solid player, may be he gets back on track in the future. 

[reesebobby 5,663]

10 minutes ago, sith13 said:

Some players not only perform at an elite level consistently but also make others around them better. It's much easier to identify those among QBs but there are defenders that are at that level. I wouldn't mind giving such a contract to any position on defense that can actually do that. 

Clark is a very good DE and has grown in the position consistently in Seattle. The problem with him is that even though he can dominate whomever he is facing he doesn't elevate a defense or a position group to the next level. He was one of the better DEs in the NFL in 2019 and was instrumental for the SB run but if you ask me he's not elite and hasn't been so any time in his career. However I think overpaying Clark helped us make the defensive switch and win the SB in 2019. So I hate his contract but it's one of those contracts that a fan can stomach for the ultimate prize. 

If you ask me the only player on our defense that's close to elite is HB. He's not there yet but he can actually make others around him better and his presence is one of the key reasons we are getting so much production from our young DBs. Thornhill had the makings of a special player but after the injury I think he just became a solid player, may be he gets back on track in the future. 

If Chris Jones is not close to elite, then I am confused by the term close to elite.

[sith13 1,746]

5 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

If Chris Jones is not close to elite, then I am confused by the term close to elite.

Not sure he is. He's one of the best players in the position but I'm not sure if he elevates the defense to new level. Our idea of elite may be different but I think Jones is simply a great player in his position but not sure if he's more than that. 

IMO the last elite player on Chiefs' defense was DJ. 

[xen 1,010,220]

8 minutes ago, sith13 said:

Not sure he is. He's one of the best players in the position but I'm not sure if he elevates the defense to new level. Our idea of elite may be different but I think Jones is simply a great player in his position but not sure if he's more than that. 

IMO the last elite player on Chiefs' defense was DJ. 

lol Jones has wrecked entire offensive gameplans and is regularly among the top players in creating pressures.  How much more elite do you want him to be?

[sith13 1,746]

Just now, xen said:

lol Jones has wrecked entire offensive gameplans and is regularly among the top players in creating pressures.  How much more elite do you want him to be?

My idea of an elite player at DL is someone like prime Watt, Donald, or DT. Also I consider safeties like Polamalu or Reed as elite players but I also don't think there are any elite ones active in the NFL right now. 

So my consideration of "not elite" isn't really a slight on the performance but rather about my expectations from the title. I also don't think there's another elite TE besides Kelce right now even though some guys look like they could be on their way. The topic wasn't about offense but but just to give an idea about my expectation. 

[reesebobby 5,663]

18 minutes ago, sith13 said:

Not sure he is. He's one of the best players in the position but I'm not sure if he elevates the defense to new level. Our idea of elite may be different but I think Jones is simply a great player in his position but not sure if he's more than that. 

IMO the last elite player on Chiefs' defense was DJ. 

Derrick Johnson was elite but Chris Jones not?

[SEMO 6,811]

Chris Jones is elite.  

[sith13 1,746]

24 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

Derrick Johnson was elite but Chris Jones not?

DJ was always solid but more importantly elevated the players around him. In order Jones to be elite he should be making no-name players around him look much better than they really are while wrecking havoc himself every time he's on the field. 

[reesebobby 5,663]

23 minutes ago, sith13 said:

DJ was always solid but more importantly elevated the players around him. In order Jones to be elite he should be making no-name players around him look much better than they really are while wrecking havoc himself every time he's on the field. 

I'm not gonna take the time to research 15 years of Chiefs defensive stats, but my recollection is that he was a good enough player that presided over mostly truly awful team defenses.  In my mind, he never approached elite, especially given your definition of elite to include prime Watt, Donald and DT.  But I support the notion that this is a subjective thing and I agree that DJ was a great Chief for a long time.  I just think he was not as elite as Jones has been. 

[sith13 1,746]

1 hour ago, reesebobby said:

I'm not gonna take the time to research 15 years of Chiefs defensive stats, but my recollection is that he was a good enough player that presided over mostly truly awful team defenses.  In my mind, he never approached elite, especially given your definition of elite to include prime Watt, Donald and DT.  But I support the notion that this is a subjective thing and I agree that DJ was a great Chief for a long time.  I just think he was not as elite as Jones has been. 

True, it's one of those things that are hard to agree upon. It's not easy to label players at certain levels when we all have different expectations or ideas about their performances. 

[reesebobby 5,663]

7 minutes ago, sith13 said:

True, it's one of those things that are hard to agree upon. It's not easy to label players at certain levels when we all have different expectations or ideas about their performances. 

It has been said that I am the Thomas Jefferson of my generation. 

[xen 1,010,220]

43 minutes ago, reesebobby said:

It has been said that I am the Thomas Jefferson of my generation. 

You have sex with slaves?

[jetlord 10,209]

2 hours ago, reesebobby said:

I'm not gonna take the time to research 15 years of Chiefs defensive stats, but my recollection is that he was a good enough player that presided over mostly truly awful team defenses.  In my mind, he never approached elite, especially given your definition of elite to include prime Watt, Donald and DT.  But I support the notion that this is a subjective thing and I agree that DJ was a great Chief for a long time.  I just think he was not as elite as Jones has been. 

DJ played with Peters, Berry, Poe, and Hali if I recall correctly.  Not exactly awful defenses.  Would they have been better without Sutton?