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Are you were referring to the 2013 draft, Bil?  The 2014 draft was considered the strongest in several years.    

I'm talking about 2014.  Who considers this recent draft to be so great?  There are always some great players, but it takes years and years to make a real valid judgement about how strong a draft is.  I know that, where the Chiefs were drafting, this was not any kind of great opportunity.  There will always be exceptions.  And all the strongest college players nowadays have their own public relations specialists who are skilled at hype and who are there to boost the value and contracts of those being considered in the draft.  They use hyperbole to describe every play that was successful in college, how smart they are, how fast they are, how strong they are, what great leaders they are what incredible character they have, how they would NEVER use performance enhancing chemicals or beat up their girlfriends.  Its mostly bullshit.  The scouts watch them.  They have a combine.  They interview other players and respected coaches.  But you simply do not know until a draft class has played for a few years.  If you claim to know, then in my book, credibility is missing.

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Of course it takes years and years to evaluate a draft class.  That being the case, how can you say it was weak?  That simply wasn't true.  Based on potential and quality prospects it was very strong, particularly in terms depth.

 

Everyone agreed on this.  NFL GM.  Draft prognosticators, etc.  It was the general consensus.  I follow the draft process closely and please trust me on this.  It was exceptionally deep at WR and where the Chiefs picked they had opportunity to select Kelvin Benjamin, Marqise Lee, Jordan Matthews, Paul Richardson, Davante Adams, Cody Latimer, Allen Robinson, and Jarvis Landry.  All of whom made a pretty good showing thus far in camp and preseason.  There were corners like Darqueze Dennard and Bradley Roby.  There was plenty of opportunity for the Chiefs to address an immediate need had they chose.  They didn't.  They liked Dee Ford better.  Years from now, they may be proven right

 

We can argue whether Al was worth the cost of two R2.  What is undeniable is not having the 2013 & 2014 R2 picks hurt the Chiefs and will continue to do so.

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Guest Water Cooler Mongo

Mongo, I have the last four drafts recorded & laugh at the analysis these media gurus go on the record hyping up players that turn out to be average NFL player (or worse). Honestly dude it's a crapshoot. You can't have a meaningful analysis until at least 3 years.....

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Mongo, I have the last four drafts recorded & laugh at the analysis these media gurus go on the record hyping up players that turn out to be average NFL player (or worse). Honestly dude it's a crapshoot. You can't have a meaningful analysis until at least 3 years.....

That's why the terms "potential" and "prospect" are used.  The 2014 draft was considered the best draft class in terms of draft value at the time of the draft.  Not just by draftniks either.  Now, why don't you use the signon "Mongo's Smarter Than Me" for your next cutesy signon.

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Of course it takes years and years to evaluate a draft class.  That being the case, how can you say it was weak?  That simply wasn't true.  Based on potential and quality prospects it was very strong, particularly in terms depth.

 

Everyone agreed on this.  NFL GM.  Draft prognosticators, etc.  It was the general consensus.  I follow the draft process closely and please trust me on this.  It was exceptionally deep at WR and where the Chiefs picked they had opportunity to select Kelvin Benjamin, Marqise Lee, Jordan Matthews, Paul Richardson, Davante Adams, Cody Latimer, Allen Robinson, and Jarvis Landry.  All of whom made a pretty good showing thus far in camp and preseason.  There were corners like Darqueze Dennard and Bradley Roby.  There was plenty of opportunity for the Chiefs to address an immediate need had they chose.  They didn't.  They liked Dee Ford better.  Years from now, they may be proven right

 

We can argue whether Al was worth the cost of two R2.  What is undeniable is not having the 2013 & 2014 R2 picks hurt the Chiefs and will continue to do so.

Of COURSE they all agreed.  They all read the same hype from all these agents.  :lol:

 

Mongo, seriously, it is nearly impossible to have an argument about a draft class until years have passed.  Anyway, if there are 142 guys drafted or whatever it is, there are obviously going to be a few great players, a lot of sucky players that get cut, and a bunch of, ahem, how shall we say?..."quality depth".  Some teams are going to be lucky and smart.  Some are going to be unlucky and smart.  Some are going to be  unlucky and stupid.  Some are going to be lucky and stupid.   Most of them are going to be somewhere in-between.  To pass a judgement on an entire draft is nearly impossible, even years later.  To pretend otherwise is to waste your life reading sporting columns.  Or maybe waste it convincing yourself that you know the deal.

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Guest Madden Mongo

Here are some words for you, maybe they will rattle around in that tin can of yours Mongo....."research" "evidence" "data" "generalizable" "sample size" "threat to validity". Your probably scratching your head having trouble connecting the dots. Clearly your idea of "smart" is reading the papers & their "football expert" journalists.....I can see you writing some bullshit blog like Jason Witlock.

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Of COURSE they all agreed.  They all read the same hype from all these agents.  :lol:

 

Mongo, seriously, it is nearly impossible to have an argument about a draft class until years have passed.  Anyway, if there are 142 guys drafted or whatever it is, there are obviously going to be a few great players, a lot of sucky players that get cut, and a bunch of, ahem, how shall we say?..."quality depth".  Some teams are going to be lucky and smart.  Some are going to be unlucky and smart.  Some are going to be  unlucky and stupid.  Some are going to be lucky and stupid.   Most of them are going to be somewhere in-between.  To pass a judgement on an entire draft is nearly impossible, even years later.  To pretend otherwise is to waste your life reading sporting columns.  Or maybe waste it convincing yourself that you know the deal.

Do you understand the meaning of prospect and potential.  It was considered a deep draft loaded with prospects.  Fact.  No one knows whether the prospects will flourish or not.  Fact.  

 

I don't know why you're getting your ass up in the air over it.

 

This was a draft considered three rounds deep with draft prospects and the Chiefs hurt from not having the R2, whether you like the Al trade or not.  Fact!

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Here are some words for you, maybe they will rattle around in that tin can of yours Mongo....."research" "evidence" "data" "generalizable" "sample size" "threat to validity". Your probably scratching your head having trouble connecting the dots. Clearly your idea of "smart" is reading the papers & their "football expert" journalists.....I can see you writing some bullshit blog like Jason Witlock.

Whatever dummy.

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Do you understand the meaning of prospect and potential.  It was considered a deep draft loaded with prospects.  Fact.  No one knows whether the prospects will flourish or not.  Fact.  

 

I don't know why you're getting your ass up in the air over it.

 

This was a draft considered three rounds deep with draft prospects and the Chiefs hurt from not having the R2, whether you like the Al trade or not.  Fact!

Or maybe waste it convincing yourself that you know the deal.

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Like some rational minds, I believe the Chiefs will improve in some areas as the season goes on. I cannot believe they will go 0-16. As bad as they were under Crennel they still won 2 games and Reid is so much a better head football coach than Crennel. Getting Bowe and Stephenson back should help along with development of some players. That having been said....this team got lucky last year with a weak ass schedule for the first 9 games. So similar in many ways to the 2010 season where we only beat one team with a winning record all year. Smoke and mirrors. We are far removed from being an upper echelon team. The injuries Sunday were killers but a lot of teams have suffered injuries. New England was hit hard last year and still won 12 games.

 

I will beat this drum continually and without apology....the Chiefs biggest handicaps are that 1) they have never drafted a franchise QB and this one goes hand in hand with it...2) they have too many whiffs when it comes to drafting and coaching personnel. Good coaches + good drafts = good teams. And I'll be honest here....still not sold on Sutton.

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Like some rational minds, I believe the Chiefs will improve in some areas as the season goes on. I cannot believe they will go 0-16. As bad as they were under Crennel they still won 2 games and Reid is so much a better head football coach than Crennel. Getting Bowe and Stephenson back should help along with development of some players. That having been said....this team got lucky last year with a weak ass schedule for the first 9 games. So similar in many ways to the 2010 season where we only beat one team with a winning record all year. Smoke and mirrors. We are far removed from being an upper echelon team. The injuries Sunday were killers but a lot of teams have suffered injuries. New England was hit hard last year and still won 12 games.

 

I will beat this drum continually and without apology....the Chiefs biggest handicaps are that 1) they have never drafted a franchise QB and this one goes hand in hand with it...2) they have too many whiffs when it comes to drafting and coaching personnel. Good coaches + good drafts = good teams. And I'll be honest here....still not sold on Sutton.

Yes, they will improve.  Realistically, they will win 3-4 games.  But they won't be able to stop good runners without DJ, and their line is too young to generate enough offense against any kind of good defense.

 

Last year their schedule was not only weak, but they had a mind-boggling streak of games against teams whose starting QB was out, and they were playing their backup QB.  Remember that?  Talk about luck!!  (not referring to Andrew only).

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Or maybe waste it convincing yourself that you know the deal.

 

Waste what?  Have you been drinking?

It was a repeat from an earlier post about wasting one's life reading sports columns or wasting it thinking one knows the real deal.  Self confidence is good, but having a grasp of one's own fallibility is even better.

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Yes, they will improve.  Realistically, they will win 3-4 games.  But they won't be able to stop good runners without DJ, and their line is too young to generate enough offense against any kind of good defense.

 

Last year their schedule was not only weak, but they had a mind-boggling streak of games against teams whose starting QB was out, and they were playing their backup QB.  Remember that?  Talk about luck!!  (not referring to Andrew only).

Bil, I agree. They will get better. I think Abdullah, Owens and Cooper will get markedly better. The oline will gel and get better. (Remember these guys are really young). I think Hammond and Wilson will contribute and DAT will prove to  be a real game changer.  I'm predicting more like 4-6 wins. Would've predicted 7-8 if DJ was siill in the lineup.

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It was a repeat from an earlier post about wasting one's life reading sports columns or wasting it thinking one knows the real deal.  Self confidence is good, but having a grasp of one's own fallibility is even better.

Who are you to decide if how one spends their spare time is a waste?  How liberal of you.  

 

I'm fully aware of my fallibility, but I'll stand by my assertions until proven otherwise.  They may not be right, but they are well thought and based on tangible facts and not whimsy.

 

In the same post you dismiss any critical analysis made of the 2014 draft class, yet point to the 2015 class, one you confess to knowing nothing about, as the saving grace of this floundering franchise.  

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Who are you to decide if how one spends their spare time is a waste?  How liberal of you.  

 

I'm fully aware of my fallibility, but I'll stand by my assertions until proven otherwise.  They may not be right, but they are well thought and based on tangible facts and not whimsy.

 

In the same post you dismiss any critical analysis made of the 2014 draft class, yet point to the 2015 class, one you confess to knowing nothing about, as the saving grace of this floundering franchise.  

The more picks you have, the better your draft regardless of its "quality".  I wasn't at all referring to whether this upcoming draft class is good or not.  But fourteen picks is huge. 

 

As for your defensiveness, I did not single you out.  I wrote "one" - not "you".  But everything seems to be about you, doesn't it?

 

By the way, Mongo.  If you have some deep political resentments added to your ego, it would be best to unleash them in the Locker Room.

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Bil, I agree. They will get better. I think Abdullah, Owens and Cooper will get markedly better. The oline will gel and get better. (Remember these guys are really young). I think Hammond and Wilson will contribute and DAT will prove to  be a real game changer.  I'm predicting more like 4-6 wins. Would've predicted 7-8 if DJ was siill in the lineup.

We are on the same page. I'm actually hoping we won't win as many as 4-6.  Having 14 picks would make this a great year to pick near the very top of each round.  But a big losing season is never wasted, if you have young talent like we do that just need experience.  That will translate into more wins later on.  I really believe that by 2020, the "experts" will be scratching their heads wondering how we keep having such strong teams year after year.  Even Mongo will be singing the praises of the organization ( and probably implying that they finally started listening to him).

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The more picks you have, the better your draft regardless of its "quality".  I wasn't at all referring to whether this upcoming draft class is good or not.  But fourteen picks is huge. 

 

As for your defensiveness, I did not single you out.  I wrote "one" - not "you".  But everything seems to be about you, doesn't it?

 

By the way, Mongo.  If you have some deep political resentments added to your ego, it would be best to unleash them in the Locker Room.

Don't back pedal now, Bil.  Your quotes were in direct response to mine. And like usual when you can’t refute something, you resort to insults or bullshit psycho-babble.  Then you try to turn the tables like I’m being overly sensitive.  How convenient for you.

 

Somehow you get to decide the line where it becomes “a waste of time”.  The whole damned venture from watching the games, to coming here to discuss and debate team issues is a damned waste of time.  We’d all better society by finding a cure for cancer instead.

 

I really don’t care about politics.  But there is nothing more typical of a liberal than to decide he knows what’s better for the masses than the masses themselves.  Sorry if that hits a little too close to home.  

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The more picks you have, the better your draft regardless of its "quality".  I wasn't at all referring to whether this upcoming draft class is good or not.  But fourteen picks is huge. 

 

I'd rather have the full compliment of 7 picks in a draft loaded with recognized potential like 2014, than have had 10 picks in the 2013 draft, for example.    

 

Haven't heard any overall assessments on 2015 yet.  Obviously 14 is better than 7.  But as you said, there is no guarantees regardless of any scout, GM, or Kiper wannabe's projections.  14 picks could mean 14 pieces of crap.  

 

Fourteen picks in the 2014 draft could have really been something special.

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