We got Orlando Brown

[mex 65,581]

3 hours ago, moons314 said:

I don't like trading away our first round pick,

#31 barely qualifies as a first round pick.

[Balto 723]

1 minute ago, Adamixoye said:

Got a link for that?  Here's the tweet I'm referencing, doesn't specify the value chart used:

 

I did the math myself....BUT first click on this link that it talks about the NEW chart that NFL teams revised including the Seahawks.  

NFL teams have revised the draft trade chart - ProFootballTalk (nbcsports.com)

Then click on the "a new chart" link that takes into consideration comp pick trades.  Or use the link below

2017 NFL Draft: Creating a brand new NFL Draft Value Trade Chart - Pats Pulpit

 

 

So now the math:

Ravens got:

Chiefs #1.31= 190.21

Chiefs #3.94= 41.15

Chiefs #4.136= 16.18

Chiefs 2022 5th= about 10, not sure on future if new chart does the typical drop down a round or not.

Total of 257.54

Chiefs got:

Brown=

#2.58= 93.26

2022 6th= about 5, again not sure on future but really not extreme either way.

Total 58+6th= 98.26 + Brown

257.54 - 98.26 = Brown or 159.28 or #38 second round value. 

[kkuenn 3,597]

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/?p=130154

[Adamixoye 604]

26 minutes ago, Balto said:

I did the math myself....BUT first click on this link that it talks about the NEW chart that NFL teams revised including the Seahawks.  

NFL teams have revised the draft trade chart - ProFootballTalk (nbcsports.com)

Then click on the "a new chart" link that takes into consideration comp pick trades.  Or use the link below

2017 NFL Draft: Creating a brand new NFL Draft Value Trade Chart - Pats Pulpit

 

 

So now the math:

Ravens got:

Chiefs #1.31= 190.21

Chiefs #3.94= 41.15

Chiefs #4.136= 16.18

Chiefs 2022 5th= about 10, not sure on future if new chart does the typical drop down a round or not.

Total of 257.54

Chiefs got:

Brown=

#2.58= 93.26

2022 6th= about 5, again not sure on future but really not extreme either way.

Total 58+6th= 98.26 + Brown

257.54 - 98.26 = Brown or 159.28 or #38 second round value. 

Seems like there are a variety of charts out there.  Some charts have this even worse for us.  Not really clear why I should or shouldn't prefer any particular one of them.

 

[Adamixoye 604]

27 minutes ago, mex said:

#31 barely qualifies as a first round pick.

Pretty sure it's within the first 32 picks.  Never understood this "logic."

[mex 65,581]

Just now, Adamixoye said:

Pretty sure it's within the first 32 picks.  Never understood this "logic."

Because you don’t understand English? “Barely qualifies.” Look at the last 10 years worth of #31 picks, and compare to the performance of the #33 picks.

I’d be surprised if you can tell any difference. 

[mex 65,581]

 

[SEMO 6,811]

1 minute ago, mex said:

 

A 20221 5th?  I can’t believe they fleeced Veach out of that one.

[Biggjliv4 1,292]

At the end of the day it only matters how KC, and in this case, Baltimore, views the chart value. Screw the pundits. 

I think its a solid pick up.  Veach was dead set on paying for a quality LT, so I like hopefully waiting a year to see how he does in a pass 1st system. 

Brown doesn't have to be a world beater due to Mahomes mobility and average pass pro will due.  The value will really come in lining up next to Thuney and finally running to the left side. He can clear a path which should really solidify an all around balanced offense with CEH in the backfield.  Hell even Bell could probably run behind the left side effectively now. 

[Balto 723]

23 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

Seems like there are a variety of charts out there.  Some charts have this even worse for us.  Not really clear why I should or shouldn't prefer any particular one of them.

 

Then why doesn’t this guy show his math from the “new chart” and how he got #16 lololol?  Ravens homer

[Adamixoye 604]

15 minutes ago, mex said:

Because you don’t understand English? “Barely qualifies.” Look at the last 10 years worth of #31 picks, and compare to the performance of the #33 picks.

I’d be surprised if you can tell any difference. 

What is the point of saying it "barely qualifies"?  It does qualify.  Yes, there's obviously a difference between an early 1st and a late 1st.  And yes, over the long view of history the value chart between the end of one round and the beginning of the next is relatively flat.  But saying it's "barely" a 1st or "basically an early second" (you only said the former, not the latter) is just spin.  Do you think Ravens fans are bummed because what they got is "barely a 1st"?

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

4 hours ago, SEMO said:

That is actually not bad.

Veach just got away with grand larceny.

[Adamixoye 604]

3 minutes ago, Biggjliv4 said:

At the end of the day it only matters how KC, and in this case, Baltimore, views the chart value. Screw the pundits. 

I think its a solid pick up.  Veach was dead set on paying for a quality LT, so I like hopefully waiting a year to see how he does in a pass 1st system. 

Brown doesn't have to be a world beater due to Mahomes mobility and average pass pro will due.  The value will really come in lining up next to Thuney and finally running to the left side. He can clear a path which should really solidify an all around balanced offense with CEH in the backfield.  here even Bell could probably run behind the left side effectively now. 

Well, like one Tweet I posted said, it probably does matter very much how the teams view and it, and that they view it differently.  KC values draft capital less than some other teams, and certainly less than current public wisdom.  That's pretty demonstrable at this point.  So the gap in their opinion on draft capital is probably what made the deal happen.

Who is right in the end?  We'll see.  If Brown is the LTotF, then I think it's probably good enough value for us.  If he struggles or we can't retain him then it's another Clark trade and eventually those are going to catch up to us.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

Between both Thuney and Brown the last two years, they had a combined grand total of 5 sacks allowed and I think 4 holding calls. Played nearly every game. Both pro bowlers.  Instead of a Round 1, Round 2, and round 3, we have Orlando Brown, a Round 2, and a Round 3. Lost a round 4 this year.  Lost a round 5 next year, and gain a Round 6 next year. Brown is 24 years old and has put in his development years, now reaching his prime. Same age as Mahomes. Much better than Fisher ever was.  Veach got away with murder.

[Adamixoye 604]

7 minutes ago, Balto said:

Then why doesn’t this guy show his math from the “new chart” and how he got #16 lololol?  Ravens homer

Don't know how you're getting that he's a Ravens homer.  He's using the Over The Cap draft value chart from here:  https://overthecap.com/draft-trade-value-chart/

(1260+698+510+380) - (942+295) = 1611, which is between #15 and #16.

[mex 65,581]

8 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

And yes, over the long view of history the value chart between the end of one round and the beginning of the next is relatively flat. 

Thank you. 

[Adamixoye 604]

3 minutes ago, mex said:

Thank you. 

We agree on that, but I think saying "it barely qualifies" as a 1st is just fan justification, that was my point.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

12 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

Well, like one Tweet I posted said, it probably does matter very much how the teams view and it, and that they view it differently.  KC values draft capital less than some other teams, and certainly less than current public wisdom.  That's pretty demonstrable at this point.  So the gap in their opinion on draft capital is probably what made the deal happen.

Who is right in the end?  We'll see.  If Brown is the LTotF, then I think it's probably good enough value for us.  If he struggles or we can't retain him then it's another Clark trade and eventually those are going to catch up to us.

Draftees are a crapshoot starting in Round 2, sometimes even in Round 1.  A proven guy who is 25 is not.  That is why Veach does what he does.  His specialty in drafting is in the mid and late rounds based on film, scouting, etc.  He lands guys like Sneed nearly as often as he misses.  In the age of Mahomes, I think his approach is exactly right.  In this draft, Ithink he is going to get a pass rushing DE and a fast WR who can stretch the field to go with Hill. He might even pick up another draft choice by trimming the glut on the O-line.  Maybe even LDT or Rankin.  We can probably get a 4th back for them.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, AFCWEST said:

Sure If KC wins the SB its perfect. Its a one year win like Clark. I have no problem hoping this is the best trade ever and being wrong. Veach needs to do a better job with the top tier picks to avoid these types of deals being needed year after year. Most do not work out.

You mean like last year when he drafted a talented developmental tackle, when we had the best RT in pro football who was a literal iron man and Fisher who had been super healthy.   You can't foresee freak injuries like that.   I do agree he's whiffed on some players but some of the issues aren't his fault.  When was he suppose to take a tackle?  When was that player suppose to get reps behind two stalwarts.   And even if they did how would we view them any differently than we view Niang.  Hindsight basis my friend.   If your gonna pay players at least make sure they are the premium value positions and Veach has basically done that.  I have no problem with paying Brown 20 million a year.   We were gonna pay Fisher 16.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, mex said:

I'd hate to play Veach in poker. Or chess.

Mex, we couldn't have traded 93 and 136 for 58 straight up.  Love it!

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, Adamixoye said:

Seems like there are a variety of charts out there.  Some charts have this even worse for us.  Not really clear why I should or shouldn't prefer any particular one of them.

 

How does #31, #94, #136 = #16 ?   Seriously?  I know the old chart is old but what team would trade their #16 pick for  #31, #94, #136?   That makes no sense and that doesn't equate for the #58 pick which according to Rich Allens or anyone's chart would be worth more than #94, #136.   Worse case we traded #31 for Orlando Brown straight up and then traded 93 and 136 for 58.   Both are good deals.    

[Lamardirts 2,114]

38 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

Don't know how you're getting that he's a Ravens homer.  He's using the Over The Cap draft value chart from here:  https://overthecap.com/draft-trade-value-chart/

(1260+698+510+380) - (942+295) = 1611, which is between #15 and #16.

That's all fine and dandy but there is not one team in the NFL that would trade their #16 pick in the draft for #31, #94, & #136 so the chart is way off.   Again what team would trade #58 for a back end 3rd (36 spots behind) and middle 4th round pick?    Charts are nice but they need to be somewhat believable or accurate.     

[Adamixoye 604]

3 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

How does #31, #94, #136 = #16 ?   Seriously?  I know the old chart is old but what team would trade their #16 pick for  #31, #94, #136?   That makes no sense and that doesn't equate for the #58 pick which according to Rich Allens or anyone's chart would be worth more than #94, #136.   Worse case we traded #31 for Orlando Brown straight up and then traded 93 and 136 for 58.   Both are good deals.    

The 2003 Chiefs traded #16 for #27 and #92.  That was in essence the Polamalu / Johnson trade.  I hated it at the time, but when you ask who would do that...we did.

I'm not sure you're looking at it correctly by splitting it up the way that you are.  And regardless, the chart merely represents how some teams think.  In general, teams are moving toward valuing quantity over quality when it comes to picks.  KC doesn't seem to value them that way, but it is what it is.

[dhitter 1,424]

Anyone saying the Chiefs got fleeced or that Veach pulled one over on the Ravens are just posturing. I think the deal works for both sides as far as compensation goes. Where it becomes tilted toward the Chiefs IMO is they are the best team in the AFC who had a glaring hole to fill. And instead of filling it with an unproven, 2nd tier OT in the draft, they went out and got a proven 2 time pro bowler in his prime. Chiefs just got way better.

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

I was against this idea, but from my perspective the chiefs fleeced the ravens on this. I see this as we basically only gave a 4th round pick, who cares. At that price if he is just a rental and we get a comp pick back for him thats fine. This puts the chiefs in a position where they dont have to overpay this guy