We got Orlando Brown

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

1 hour ago, moons314 said:

Our tackles were were solid when healthy, but the interior 3 was shitty long before opt outs and injuries.  Some of us were ringing alarm bells about that group entering last season.  

Theres no combination of Rankin, Osemele, Reiter, Wylie, and LDT that is anything resembling above average.

Rankin was traded for a RB who wasn't going to make the roster, Osemeke was an emergency scrap heap free agent unemployed in June, Reiter a former seventh rounder we claimed off waivers,  LDT a 6th rounder, and Wylie a UDFA. 

I have no idea why people act personally offended when you say anything disparaging about that group. They should suck. Look at the level of investment. And we have less jewelry because of it.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

1 hour ago, moons314 said:

While this is true, the salary structure change from some years ago makes those picks infinitely more valuable imo.  I'm happy with Brown, but an argument could be made that from a salary cap standpoint, standing pat and drafting a linemen could've been a better option, since after this season we're going to be giving the man a huge contract. 

I'm pretty sure he will really like KC and the locker room chemistry and playing for a champion and for Reid, so he might give us a little break on an extended contract.  But most of all, he gives us a chance to get back to the Super Bowl and maybe win it this time.  That will attract even more players at a more reasonable rate and help us keep people whose contracts are ending.  I say win now, and it will result in more success over a longer time. Oh, I also didn't mention the increased perceived value of first contact guys that are released, which would give us a bit more cap space for future signings.  The rich stay rich and the poor stay poor in this game.  Having given up two Round 1's for Mahomes will allow us to stay rich for a long time. Aggressive trade away of picks to get high performance veterans is the right approach now

[Adamixoye 604]

I'm still not sure that we got amazing value but the memes are 🔥🔥🔥

[Burpo The Mad Clown 5,555]

3 hours ago, jetlord said:

Did Roaf come with a one year deal?  Can't remember when the Chiefs signed him long term.  

I don’t recall any contractual particulars. But, I remember as soon as he became the Chiefs’ LT we had the best OL in the league. 

[mex 65,581]

2 hours ago, moons314 said:

While this is true, the salary structure change from some years ago makes those picks infinitely more valuable imo.  I'm happy with Brown, but an argument could be made that from a salary cap standpoint, standing pat and drafting a linemen could've been a better option, since after this season we're going to be giving the man a huge contract. 

Drafting linemen is not an exact science. Brian Jozwiak and Trez Jenkins come to mind. But picking up a very young, proven commodity seems to be a safer bet.... at least, when we're talking about the health of our franchise QB.

[Burpo The Mad Clown 5,555]

20 minutes ago, mex said:

Drafting linemen is not an exact science. Brian Jozwiak and Trez Jenkins come to mind. But picking up a very young, proven commodity seems to be a safer bet.... at least, when we're talking about the health of our franchise QB.

For every Munoz or Roaf there are a half dozen Jozwiaks or Mandariches.

Only time will tell if this is a better investment than drafting an LT this year, but the safe money is on the proven commodity. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

Did not think the Ravens would be stupid enough to trade a 3 time pro-bowler that is still going to get even better for a 2nd round pick worth of value.

Ballard is an idiot for not just offering the Colts first rounder out right to beat what KC was offering.  Veach worked the shit out of the Ravens in that trade, but Baltimore will use the picks well.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

3 hours ago, AFCWEST said:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties 

Ya'll see the cap hits this year for our brand new OL 

LT Brown - $3.6 MM
LG Thuney - $4.5 MM
C Blythe - $990K
RG Tardif - $4.75 MM
RT Niang - $871K

If Long beats out LDT which I think he will.   The entire line is around 11 million.

[Balto 723]

5 hours ago, jetlord said:

Did Roaf come with a one year deal?  Can't remember when the Chiefs signed him long term.  

 

 

Roaf restructures deal to go to Chiefs ESPN.com news services

The New Orleans Saints and Kansas City Chiefs have reached an agreement to trade left tackle Willie Roaf from the Saints to the Chiefs for a fourth-round choice in the 2003 draft, ESPN.com's John Clayton reported Monday night. It could be upgraded to a third-round choice in 2003 based on Roaf's performance with the Chiefs in 2002. Roaf, 31, restructured his contract to facilitate a trade, and the new deal will be for six years and worth $21 million with a $3.5 million signing bonus. The biggest problem in this trade wasn't negotiations between the Chiefs and Saints, but getting an acceptable deal between Roaf and the Chiefs. The Saints planned to keep Roaf under two option bonus plans that would have kept his annual salary in the $4 million a year range.   The Saints had repeatedly extended their deadline because Roaf was supposed to be close to a deal with the Chiefs. Had it past Monday night's deadline of midnight ET, the Saints planned to execute one of those option clauses to keep him on the roster.     The Chiefs and the Denver Broncos had both been negotiating With agent Peter Schaffer for Roaf, who said last month he would retire unless the Saints traded or released him.

[Adamixoye 604]

9 minutes ago, Balto said:

 

 

Roaf restructures deal to go to Chiefs ESPN.com news services

The New Orleans Saints and Kansas City Chiefs have reached an agreement to trade left tackle Willie Roaf from the Saints to the Chiefs for a fourth-round choice in the 2003 draft, ESPN.com's John Clayton reported Monday night. It could be upgraded to a third-round choice in 2003 based on Roaf's performance with the Chiefs in 2002. Roaf, 31, restructured his contract to facilitate a trade, and the new deal will be for six years and worth $21 million with a $3.5 million signing bonus. The biggest problem in this trade wasn't negotiations between the Chiefs and Saints, but getting an acceptable deal between Roaf and the Chiefs. The Saints planned to keep Roaf under two option bonus plans that would have kept his annual salary in the $4 million a year range.   The Saints had repeatedly extended their deadline because Roaf was supposed to be close to a deal with the Chiefs. Had it past Monday night's deadline of midnight ET, the Saints planned to execute one of those option clauses to keep him on the roster.     The Chiefs and the Denver Broncos had both been negotiating With agent Peter Schaffer for Roaf, who said last month he would retire unless the Saints traded or released him.

Pretty wild how much contracts have increased

[Balto 723]

5 hours ago, Adamixoye said:

I was just responding to what Lamar said by pointing out the 2003 trade.  I didn't like it at the time, though I could be talked into comparable value in a theoretical sense.  But clearly the Steelers got the better end of that trade if you factor in the final selections.

The way you thought about it in your example is wrong, though.  Because the #16 isn't "what we get" it's the differential value of the other picks.  By this logic, if the differential was worth 2 #1s then you say we got an even better deal!  So that doesn't make sense at all.

Well if that's the case, that KC gave up #16 pick value that would mean Brown is worth like the #3 overall pick because Chiefs also received #58+2022 6th on top of Brown.  correct?

 

 

 

[Adamixoye 604]

1 minute ago, Balto said:

Well if that's the case, that KC gave up #16 pick value that would mean Brown is worth like the #3 overall pick because Chiefs also received #58+2022 6th on top of Brown.  correct?

 

 

 

No.

You do what everyone was doing from the beginning, you look at the difference in the value of the picks exchanged.  The 4 picks we gave up vs. the 2 picks we got back.  That's what the different charts are assigning different values to, a net difference of us sending away anywhere from a mid-1st to a mid-2nd.  That's what we lost in pick value, so that's essentially what we used on Brown.

It seems like the Chiefs seem to agree with the older charts and think they basically got Brown for 2nd-round value (this is based on their trade history).  It's probable the Ravens use the newer charts and think they got 1st-round value.

Lamar was questioning whether the newer charts made any sense, I would only say because modern analytics has shown drafting is relatively random the newer chart values are flatter and generally favor more picks rather than fewer.  That's just what historical information says, anyone is free to believe or disbelieve that at their own option.

Maybe Brown is worth it either way (1st or 2nd round value), time will tell, but that's what the discussion is.

[moons314 2,463]

1 hour ago, Lamardirts said:

If Long beats out LDT which I think he will.   The entire line is around 11 million.

LDT wasn't good before sitting out a year.  I was really hoping he'd retire, because if he's starting at RG, that position will again be a black hole. 

[Balto 723]

24 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

No.

You do what everyone was doing from the beginning, you look at the difference in the value of the picks exchanged.  The 4 picks we gave up vs. the 2 picks we got back.  That's what the different charts are assigning different values to, a net difference of us sending away anywhere from a mid-1st to a mid-2nd.  That's what we lost in pick value, so that's essentially what we used on Brown.

It seems like the Chiefs seem to agree with the older charts and think they basically got Brown for 2nd-round value (this is based on their trade history).  It's probable the Ravens use the newer charts and think they got 1st-round value.

Lamar was questioning whether the newer charts made any sense, I would only say because modern analytics has shown drafting is relatively random the newer chart values are flatter and generally favor more picks rather than fewer.  That's just what historical information says, anyone is free to believe or disbelieve that at their own option.

Maybe Brown is worth it either way (1st or 2nd round value), time will tell, but that's what the discussion is.

Thanks and makes sense.  I still say the “rich hill” chart is the newer version of even the chart were people got #16 value.  

[Adamixoye 604]

1 minute ago, Balto said:

Thanks and makes sense.  I still say the “rich hill” chart is the newer version of even the chart were people got #16 value.  

I don't think I was disputing that.  I think it's something like:

• Jimmy Johnson chart - 45th-ish pick
• Rich Hill chart - 38th-ish pick
• Fitzgerald-Spielberg chart (Over The Cap) - 16th-ish pick

[Lamardirts 2,114]

59 minutes ago, moons314 said:

LDT wasn't good before sitting out a year.  I was really hoping he'd retire, because if he's starting at RG, that position will again be a black hole. 

I agree but he was better than Wylie.  I'll take any improvement.   What I would love to see is Long take the spot and Durant request to move in to guard and be the swing guard.   

[Lamardirts 2,114]

36 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

I don't think I was disputing that.  I think it's something like:

• Jimmy Johnson chart - 45th-ish pick
• Rich Hill chart - 38th-ish pick
• Fitzgerald-Spielberg chart (Over The Cap) - 16th-ish pick

Yeah I don't necessarily subscribe to Jimmy Johnsons chart but generally speaking it would take 2 firsts at least to move up from 31 to 16.  Just look at the trades to move up into the top 5 from 7 spots back.    I just think the newer charts regardless of what they value aren't realistic just like Jimmy's isn't realistic.   I actually think we gave up close to a first round pick which I think is fair!

[Palangi 788]

16 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

I agree but he was better than Wylie.  I'll take any improvement.   What I would love to see is Long take the spot and Durant request to move in to guard and be the swing guard.   

I really don't think there was much difference in LDT and Wylie.

Durant will kick inside.  Long will beat out LDT 

[Balto 723]

 

 

[Balto 723]

 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

1 hour ago, Lamardirts said:

Yeah I don't necessarily subscribe to Jimmy Johnsons chart but generally speaking it would take 2 firsts at least to move up from 31 to 16.  Just look at the trades to move up into the top 5 from 7 spots back.    I just think the newer charts regardless of what they value aren't realistic just like Jimmy's isn't realistic.   I actually think we gave up close to a first round pick which I think is fair!

I think the JJ chart is still pretty relevant.  At least compared to whatever the fuck OTC put together, because that one doesn't make any sense.

1 hour ago, Palangi said:

I really don't think there was much difference in LDT and Wylie.

Durant will kick inside.  Long will beat out LDT 

If LDT is healthy, he's better than Wylie. 

[Palangi 788]

25 minutes ago, liquidfriend said:

I think the JJ chart is still pretty relevant.  At least compared to whatever the fuck OTC put together, because that one doesn't make any sense.

If LDT is healthy, he's better than Wylie. 

It's definitely a matter of opinion.  But LDT never could learn to see or pick up a stunt. 

[liquidfriend 1,151]

11 minutes ago, Palangi said:

It's definitely a matter of opinion.  But LDT never could learn to see or pick up a stunt. 

lmao he gave up 9 pressures alone in the Super Bowl

probably the worst single game performance I have seen since Jordan Interstate Black

[moons314 2,463]

2 hours ago, Palangi said:

I really don't think there was much difference in LDT and Wylie.

Durant will kick inside.  Long will beat out LDT 

I'm really hoping Long beats him out, because I agree, LDT and Wylie weren't any different.  

[robgar 1,046]

6 hours ago, Burpo The Mad Clown said:

I don’t recall any contractual particulars. But, I remember as soon as he became the Chiefs’ LT we had the best OL in the league. 

what held up the trade with roaf was getting him signed, he came with a long term deal.