We got Orlando Brown

[jetlord 10,209]

Question of the day:  Would the Chiefs have make this deal without at least a verbal agreement on a extension for Brown?  At his presser today, Brown sure sounded like he expects to be here for a while.  

[mex 65,581]

21 minutes ago, arrowhead said:

Orlando Brown Jr. on playing on the same team as Patrick Mahomes: "I look forward to keeping him clean. He shouldn't have to run around because of me. Period."

Fuck yeah.

hows it going brother?

[azchief21 5,278]

26 minutes ago, arrowhead said:

Orlando Brown Jr. on playing on the same team as Patrick Mahomes: "I look forward to keeping him clean. He shouldn't have to run around because of me. Period."

Imagine Mahomes in the pocket with time. 

[Burpo The Mad Clown 5,555]

8 minutes ago, azchief21 said:

Imagine Mahomes in the pocket with time. 

I wonder what that looks like. 

[azchief21 5,278]

2 minutes ago, Burpo The Mad Clown said:

I wonder what that looks like. 

It'll be a beautiful thing. Thanks B-More

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

Sure, he expects the extension and has likely already been told by Veach to expect it.  But his current contract was traded to us, so he has to play it out.  I would guess he is planning to get a piece of the increased cap that sets in in 2022 when his contract is extended.  I seriously doubt Veach is going to even think about the tag option.  We should count on Brown to protect Mahomes for many years.  He is the franchise, and Brown is the protector of the realm.

[sith13 1,746]

8 hours ago, SEMO said:

Continuity with who?  The entire starting oline from last year is gone, minus Remmers, who was just a spot starter.

Rather than the players he knows the system, which is generally a good thing in a backup. Chiefs already needed to find some veteran backups for this year, might as well hang on to what's already in town. 

[Handswarmer 645]

On 4/24/2021 at 9:36 AM, sith13 said:

Makes a lot of sense for the Ravens as well. Brown is a RT for them and unless they tag him he would leave in 2022 and bring in a 3rd for 2023. Instead they get another 1st this year as well as some other value in the draft and don't have to deal with the contract next year. Instead they can get a rookie RT this year for cheap and not worry about it for the next 5 years. 

I don't know or actually care about the value of each pick as the charts are all arbitrary but I don't think the trade is bad for anyone involved. 

They will probably sign Villaneuva,  who had an offensive tackle run-block win rate in 2020 that was higher than Brown, on a Vet minimum deal and draft a RT.

They also stocked up on picks in this years draft, which is very deep at WR, EDGE and OL, all of which are needs for the Ravens. they went from 2 picks in the 1st 2 rounds to 6 picks in the 1st to rounds.

If you look at the trades DeCosta has made since becoming GM, everything has worked except for 1- Ngakoue

[Handswarmer 645]

On 4/25/2021 at 9:07 AM, Holmes4six! said:

Hats off to veach. He did the Samething when our defense failed. He blew it up and rebuilt it. He now did that to the o line. 
I just love the fact that we have a GM that will fix what is broken. He will attack it. 
Some people may not agree to what he gives up or contracts but at the end of the day we have a GM that is willing to fix the deficiency. 
I love this signing. 
can’t wait to see the chiefs run the ball down people’s throats! 

But isn't he also the one who let it get broken.

[Handswarmer 645]

Also, the 2 1st rd picks the Ravens have , 1 could get dealt for more picks from a desperate team. The Ravens play poker while other teams play Go Fish.

BTW, the last time the Ravens had two 1st rd picks, it worked out pretty well for them (Jon Ogden and Ray Lewis= HOF)

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

[KC Warpaint 3,234]

1 hour ago, Handswarmer said:

But isn't he also the one who let it get broken.

you cannot blame the GM for injuries and opt outs...

[sith13 1,746]

1 hour ago, Handswarmer said:

They will probably sign Villaneuva,  who had an offensive tackle run-block win rate in 2020 that was higher than Brown, on a Vet minimum deal and draft a RT.

They also stocked up on picks in this years draft, which is very deep at WR, EDGE and OL, all of which are needs for the Ravens. they went from 2 picks in the 1st 2 rounds to 6 picks in the 1st to rounds.

If you look at the trades DeCosta has made since becoming GM, everything has worked except for 1- Ngakoue

I doubt Villanueva will go for a vet minimum deal. His value will go down each year so something like a 3-year deal would likely be his goal after the draft. Most rookies are considered day one starters at RT so makes a lot more sense to grab one and don't worry about the position for 4-5 years. Not sure how legit but read that Ravens could be packaging the picks to move up for a QB and let Jackson leave in FA once the time comes.

[xen 1,010,220]

Peter King on the trade.  

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/04/26/2021-nfl-mock-draft-fmia-peter-king/

News item: On Friday, Baltimore traded tackle Orlando Brown plus a second-round pick this year and a sixth next year to Kansas City for first, third and fourth-round picks this year and a fifth next year.

Background: Entering this offseason, Baltimore knew right tackle Brown wanted to play left tackle, and with Ronnie Stanley capably manning the left side for the Ravens, that chance wasn’t going to materialize. But with Brown a year before free agency and with the cap tight this year and next for many teams, the market wasn’t as frenetic as you’d think for a 24-year-old tackle able to play either side. Kansas City, however, was motivated to protect Patrick Mahomes well into the future with quality players.

Finding a middle ground. Once Baltimore knew KC was sincerely interested, it was a matter of determining the value for the player. Not easy. In 2018, Brown was the 83rd pick overall, chosen in the middle of the third round. In his first three NFL seasons, he played right tackle for the Ravens and made two Pro Bowls. But he wanted to play left tackle, and he would need a new contract with his rookie deal expiring after 2021. So a team acquiring him would not only have to pay draft-pick compensation for him, but would have to sign him in 2022 to avoid making a big trade for a guy and then losing him after only a year or two if KC chose to franchise him in 2022.

Baltimore GM Eric DeCosta and Kansas City GM Brett Veach sought a middle ground. The Ravens thought a pick low in the second round was poor value. Kansas City thought a first-round pick was too rich. So they borderline split the difference. They would try to frame a deal with a value for Brown between the 43rd and 45th pick, approximately—but Kansas City had a low first-round pick (31st overall), and so they’d have to figure out how to equalize the value.

 

The draft trade value charts. You may have heard of these. Jimmy Johnson and the Cowboys invented the first one in 1989, assigning every pick in the draft a numerical value, so that when a trade was being discussed, each side could put a mathematical number on picks and come to an agreement about the value of them. Johnson’s chart wasn’t perfect; it probably overrated picks in the top 10, didn’t account for the rising value of second and third-round picks in building rosters in recent years, nor did it account for players being traded who might not be with the acquiring team long-term. It was designed to simply dictate what, say, the 34th pick in the draft was worth when two teams were trading picks. When a player got involved, that was a different story. The two sides had to figure the draft-choice equivalent of that player, then work to exchange picks plus the player to make it equal. In this case, Veach had eight to 10 charts he used, while DeCosta had four, and they both had Johnson’s chart. So they began to work on the Chiefs figuring out how to give the Ravens value of a pick in the mid-forties.

The result. On a chart designed by Chase Stuart of Football Perspective, widely quoted by respected scribe Bill Barnwell, adding up KC’s first, third, fourth and fifth-round picks, and getting a Baltimore second in return, was the equivalent of the Ravens getting the 23rd pick in return for Brown. Another chart KC used found that plugging in the same picks resulted in the value of the 75th pick. But then they calculated the Johnson trade chart. Kansas City’s first-round pick, 31st overall, was worth 600 points. The third-round pick, 94th, was worth 124 points, and the fourth, 136th overall, was worth 3.3 points. Add in the fifth next year, about three points, and that totaled up 730.3 points of value. Now you had to account for the Baltimore second-round pick this year, 58th overall, and sixth next year. That was worth about 330.4 points, per Johnson’s chart. So, there was 785.4 points of value from KC’s picks, and 330.4 points from the Baltimore pick. And 785.4 points minus 330.4 equals 455 points. That’s halfway between the 44th and 45th picks on the Johnson chart. So the value seemed fair. The Ravens got the low one plus three lesser picks from Kansas City for a player they’d likely keep just one more year, and KC got the low two plus a left tackle (they hope) of the future.

Postcript. For the Ravens, they figure that the 31st pick they’ve acquired in this draft is not the value of the 31st pick on their board. When they acquired that pick, they think of it more like the 20th or 22nd pick. Why? Because they figure that when their board is stacked with finality this week, there will be a player ranked in the 20 to 22 range left on their board. That comes from experience. Every team doesn’t see the board the way the Ravens see it. The whole thing is fascinating to me.

[reesebobby 5,662]

3 hours ago, Handswarmer said:

The Ravens play poker while other teams play Go Fish.

Er, the Ravens have 1 playoff win since the 2014 season.  May want to play less poker and more football.  

[reesebobby 5,662]

3 hours ago, Handswarmer said:

BTW, the last time the Ravens had two 1st rd picks, it worked out pretty well for them (Jon Ogden and Ray Lewis= HOF)

Technically, Hayden Hurst and Lamar Jackson.  And Hurst needs to pick up the pace for his HOF campaign.

[xen 1,010,220]

7 hours ago, Handswarmer said:

Also, the 2 1st rd picks the Ravens have , 1 could get dealt for more picks from a desperate team. The Ravens play poker while other teams play Go Fish.

BTW, the last time the Ravens had two 1st rd picks, it worked out pretty well for them (Jon Ogden and Ray Lewis= HOF + 2 dead people)

fify

[reesebobby 5,662]

18 hours ago, azchief21 said:

Imagine Mahomes in the pocket with time. 

In all seriousness, I have wondered about it.  Part of Mahomes game seems to be creating chaos and taking advantage of it.  He puts a lot of pressure on defenses outside of the pocket. 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

1 hour ago, xen said:

fify

Lmao. Your tits may be getting restless.

[Holmes4six! 968]

9 hours ago, Handswarmer said:

But isn't he also the one who let it get broken.

Cant plan for the injuries we had. RT - back and LT achilles. Oseleme went down as well.

[Balto 723]

7 hours ago, xen said:

Peter King on the trade.  

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/04/26/2021-nfl-mock-draft-fmia-peter-king/

News item: On Friday, Baltimore traded tackle Orlando Brown plus a second-round pick this year and a sixth next year to Kansas City for first, third and fourth-round picks this year and a fifth next year.

Background: Entering this offseason, Baltimore knew right tackle Brown wanted to play left tackle, and with Ronnie Stanley capably manning the left side for the Ravens, that chance wasn’t going to materialize. But with Brown a year before free agency and with the cap tight this year and next for many teams, the market wasn’t as frenetic as you’d think for a 24-year-old tackle able to play either side. Kansas City, however, was motivated to protect Patrick Mahomes well into the future with quality players.

Finding a middle ground. Once Baltimore knew KC was sincerely interested, it was a matter of determining the value for the player. Not easy. In 2018, Brown was the 83rd pick overall, chosen in the middle of the third round. In his first three NFL seasons, he played right tackle for the Ravens and made two Pro Bowls. But he wanted to play left tackle, and he would need a new contract with his rookie deal expiring after 2021. So a team acquiring him would not only have to pay draft-pick compensation for him, but would have to sign him in 2022 to avoid making a big trade for a guy and then losing him after only a year or two if KC chose to franchise him in 2022.

Baltimore GM Eric DeCosta and Kansas City GM Brett Veach sought a middle ground. The Ravens thought a pick low in the second round was poor value. Kansas City thought a first-round pick was too rich. So they borderline split the difference. They would try to frame a deal with a value for Brown between the 43rd and 45th pick, approximately—but Kansas City had a low first-round pick (31st overall), and so they’d have to figure out how to equalize the value.

 

The draft trade value charts. You may have heard of these. Jimmy Johnson and the Cowboys invented the first one in 1989, assigning every pick in the draft a numerical value, so that when a trade was being discussed, each side could put a mathematical number on picks and come to an agreement about the value of them. Johnson’s chart wasn’t perfect; it probably overrated picks in the top 10, didn’t account for the rising value of second and third-round picks in building rosters in recent years, nor did it account for players being traded who might not be with the acquiring team long-term. It was designed to simply dictate what, say, the 34th pick in the draft was worth when two teams were trading picks. When a player got involved, that was a different story. The two sides had to figure the draft-choice equivalent of that player, then work to exchange picks plus the player to make it equal. In this case, Veach had eight to 10 charts he used, while DeCosta had four, and they both had Johnson’s chart. So they began to work on the Chiefs figuring out how to give the Ravens value of a pick in the mid-forties.

The result. On a chart designed by Chase Stuart of Football Perspective, widely quoted by respected scribe Bill Barnwell, adding up KC’s first, third, fourth and fifth-round picks, and getting a Baltimore second in return, was the equivalent of the Ravens getting the 23rd pick in return for Brown. Another chart KC used found that plugging in the same picks resulted in the value of the 75th pick. But then they calculated the Johnson trade chart. Kansas City’s first-round pick, 31st overall, was worth 600 points. The third-round pick, 94th, was worth 124 points, and the fourth, 136th overall, was worth 3.3 points. Add in the fifth next year, about three points, and that totaled up 730.3 points of value. Now you had to account for the Baltimore second-round pick this year, 58th overall, and sixth next year. That was worth about 330.4 points, per Johnson’s chart. So, there was 785.4 points of value from KC’s picks, and 330.4 points from the Baltimore pick. And 785.4 points minus 330.4 equals 455 points. That’s halfway between the 44th and 45th picks on the Johnson chart. So the value seemed fair. The Ravens got the low one plus three lesser picks from Kansas City for a player they’d likely keep just one more year, and KC got the low two plus a left tackle (they hope) of the future.

Postcript. For the Ravens, they figure that the 31st pick they’ve acquired in this draft is not the value of the 31st pick on their board. When they acquired that pick, they think of it more like the 20th or 22nd pick. Why? Because they figure that when their board is stacked with finality this week, there will be a player ranked in the 20 to 22 range left on their board. That comes from experience. Every team doesn’t see the board the way the Ravens see it. The whole thing is fascinating to me.

BAM 

[Balto 723]

So YES we got Brown for what BOTH teams think is mid 2nd value.  Love Veach

[Adamixoye 604]

9 minutes ago, Balto said:

So YES we got Brown for what BOTH teams think is mid 2nd value.  Love Veach

That's not what that means.  It means that's what the teams could agree to.  It doesn't mean that's what each team might have actually valued the picks at (especially considering they couldn't agree at first).

I'm not saying we got bad value, either.  Just that I wouldn't interpret this story as saying we totally know each team's thinking.  This is just the basis for how they came to an agreement.

[Balto 723]

2 minutes ago, Adamixoye said:

That's not what that means.  It means that's what the teams could agree to.  It doesn't mean that's what each team might have actually valued the picks at (especially considering they couldn't agree at first).

I'm not saying we got bad value, either.  Just that I wouldn't interpret this story as saying we totally know each team's thinking.  This is just the basis for how they came to an agreement.

Doesn't the article clearly state that BOTH teams sought 43rd-45th pick value?  

"Baltimore GM Eric DeCosta and Kansas City GM Brett Veach sought a middle ground. The Ravens thought a pick low in the second round was poor value. Kansas City thought a first-round pick was too rich. So they borderline split the difference. They would try to frame a deal with a value for Brown between the 43rd and 45th pick, approximately—but Kansas City had a low first-round pick (31st overall), and so they’d have to figure out how to equalize the value."

[Adamixoye 604]

9 minutes ago, Balto said:

Doesn't the article clearly state that BOTH teams sought 43rd-45th pick value?  

"Baltimore GM Eric DeCosta and Kansas City GM Brett Veach sought a middle ground. The Ravens thought a pick low in the second round was poor value. Kansas City thought a first-round pick was too rich. So they borderline split the difference. They would try to frame a deal with a value for Brown between the 43rd and 45th pick, approximately—but Kansas City had a low first-round pick (31st overall), and so they’d have to figure out how to equalize the value."

No, it's just saying they found a chart that they could both be happy and went with that.  It doesn't mean that each team might not have had an internal chart that was different.