Julio

[jetlord 10,209]

It's all a balancing act between mortgaging the future for better odds this year and staying at the top for the Mahomes era.  The Chiefs are already SB favorites and getting Julio would increase the chances even further, but at what cost.  Next year there will be a new shiny object we're all drooling over and if the Chiefs go after Julio with cap space and draft picks, will they lose out then?  What if JJ get injured and only plays less than half the games and misses the playoffs?  What if the Chiefs suffer other injuries like in the SB last season, and the season falls apart on them?  Not saying that is going to happen or even likely, but getting JJ at a big price is a risk.  I'd rather the Chiefs save their draft picks for that WR, LB, or CB next year and save the cap space to extend HB and, later on, Hill and Thornhill among others.  If getting Julio increases the Chiefs' chances of winning the SB from 30% to 40%, for example, I'll pass. 

[kkuenn 3,599]

2 hours ago, jetlord said:

It's all a balancing act between mortgaging the future for better odds this year and staying at the top for the Mahomes era.  The Chiefs are already SB favorites and getting Julio would increase the chances even further, but at what cost.  Next year there will be a new shiny object we're all drooling over and if the Chiefs go after Julio with cap space and draft picks, will they lose out then?  What if JJ get injured and only plays less than half the games and misses the playoffs?  What if the Chiefs suffer other injuries like in the SB last season, and the season falls apart on them?  Not saying that is going to happen or even likely, but getting JJ at a big price is a risk.  I'd rather the Chiefs save their draft picks for that WR, LB, or CB next year and save the cap space to extend HB and, later on, Hill and Thornhill among others.  If getting Julio increases the Chiefs' chances of winning the SB from 30% to 40%, for example, I'll pass. 

A lot of what ifs....what if JJ is a great 1B receiver that has a great season opposite of Hill but not a historic type season. One that gives defenses fits to try and cover all the weapons? Injuries can happen at any time to any player. We could say what if Hill goes down and we wished we had JJ then?

[jetlord 10,209]

11 minutes ago, kkuenn said:

A lot of what ifs....what if JJ is a great 1B receiver that has a great season opposite of Hill but not a historic type season. One that gives defenses fits to try and cover all the weapons? Injuries can happen at any time to any player. We could say what if Hill goes down and we wished we had JJ then?

Of course.  My idea is that it's worth going with what's on the team now,, which is a SB caliber team, if it also means better chances in the future.  None of us can be sure of what's in the future.  Some of us are just more inclined to think longer term.  Either side has good points to argue.  

[Balto 723]

15 minutes ago, jetlord said:

Of course.  My idea is that it's worth going with what's on the team now,, which is a SB caliber team, if it also means better chances in the future.  None of us can be sure of what's in the future.  Some of us are just more inclined to think longer term.  Either side has good points to argue.  

And I think thats the problem...your not thinking longer term just long term if that makes sense?  My thing is sending Hardman to the Falcons in the trade because I believe Hardman will not be on this team long term because he is just not a true #1 or #2 WR and more of a gadget type.  I believe Hardman will want more than Veach will offer and Hardman will walk after his rookie deal.  Lets say Veach does pay him and now we have a expensive WR in Hardman that we overpaid for and now we are stuck with a #3 type gadet guy as our #2 because thats what we paid him as.  So yes long term meaning the next 2 years we have Hardman under rookie deal and then we either let him walk or overpay...Versus gaining a top 5 WR to pair with Hill for a very very very team friendly deal.  We have about $9M in cap atm and trading Hardman would gain us about another million...so $10M.  Lets say Veach gives HB a new deal(which will probably happen regardless of Julio coming here or not).  Now we have more than enough cap for that $15M 2021 hit....BUT then we go into 2022 and 2023 with Julio and only have a total of $2M guaranteed to him if stuff hits the fan.  Or he stays elite and we only pay him $11M each year which will be a bargain for him.

So we are good on sending Hardman away for Jones but what about a pick....THATS where I might agree with you.  If the Falcons want a 1st + Hardman then I pass....IF the Falcons want a 3rd + Hardman I do it.....If the Falcons want a 2nd+Hardman I leave it up to Veach.

Long"er" term this trade allows us to pair an elite top 5 WR with Hill on a team friendly deal for the next 3 years and then that cap falls off and we can either plug Cornell Powell into Julio's role OR look at the draft/FA with that now extra cap room.

Long term would be passing on Julio and having Hardman either walk in FA or give him a over priced contract that we are stuck with for another 4-5 years.  Then hope that 3rd round draft pick player works out..

 

Give me Julio and the extra advantage for Super Bowl wins the next 3 years versus staying put and trying to figure out what to do with Hardman and pray Hill doesn't get hurt.

[mex 65,581]

6 hours ago, reesebobby said:

Do you mean A J Green?  Or is there something about A J Brown that I don't know about. 

Green, Brown... IDGAF what color he is as long as he makes an immediate impact.

[Balto 723]

 

[Dan4pres 125]

I don't want to trade/sign Julio just for the simple fact we are in dire need of another edge rusher. We need the available cap to either sign an existing FA or pick up someone after roster cuts. We have Clark, who has underperformed and bunch of question marks. Julio would make a great offense even better, but we also don't need to give the opposing QB a day and half in the pocket either. I trust Mahomes can cover whatever perceived deficiencies you guys have about our receiving corps. If we can't put any pressure on the other QB, we will be forced to score a bucket load of points like we did in Mahomes first year. I'm not down for that. 

Everyone is saying our O-Line cost us the SB but I also recall a 43 year old QB carved our defense up pretty well since there was little pressure. I understand that Reed may help and other guys may develop (and I hope they do) but if Clark continues to struggle our pass rush will be extremely suspect.

[Balto 723]

11 minutes ago, Dan4pres said:

I don't want to trade/sign Julio just for the simple fact we are in dire need of another edge rusher. We need the available cap to either sign an existing FA or pick up someone after roster cuts. We have Clark, who has underperformed and bunch of question marks. Julio would make a great offense even better, but we also don't need to give the opposing QB a day and half in the pocket either. I trust Mahomes can cover whatever perceived deficiencies you guys have about our receiving corps. If we can't put any pressure on the other QB, we will be forced to score a bucket load of points like we did in Mahomes first year. I'm not down for that. 

Everyone is saying our O-Line cost us the SB but I also recall a 43 year old QB carved our defense up pretty well since there was little pressure. I understand that Reed may help and other guys may develop (and I hope they do) but if Clark continues to struggle our pass rush will be extremely suspect.

We are who we are because of the offense.....I think gaining a Julio Jones over a vet cheap pass rusher some team cuts helps us much much more.  Also why not both?  Any vet that gets cut or we sign later on will be at vet minimum or very close.  We can have our cake and eat it too 

[Dan4pres 125]

We were better offensively in Mahomes first year than in the previous two and we didn't even make the SB. We didn't get to the big game until we got some semblance of a defense the last two years. I don't think Ingram or Houston will come cheap. There also could be a few cap casualties this year that are an immediate upgrade. I'm not talking about signing another rotational guy. We need a difference maker on the edge. Maybe some fans are OK with both teams going up and down the field at will. I prefer we get a few stops and win a little more comfortably. 

[oldtimer 8,686]

2 minutes ago, Dan4pres said:

We were better offensively in Mahomes first year than in the previous two and we didn't even make the SB. We didn't get to the big game until we got some semblance of a defense the last two years. I don't think Ingram or Houston will come cheap. There also could be a few cap casualties this year that are an immediate upgrade. I'm not talking about signing another rotational guy. We need a difference maker on the edge. Maybe some fans are OK with both teams going up and down the field at will. I prefer we get a few stops and win a little more comfortably. 

Defense wins championships

[Balto 723]

23 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Defense wins championships

Not in 2020

[oldtimer 8,686]

1 hour ago, Balto said:

Not in 2020

so your saying that Tampa's Defense  swallowing up our offense didn't win them the SB? musta watched a different game than I did and before you say something stupid last year was the 2020 Season so dont be a douchbag

[Dan4pres 125]

For all of the offensive fireworks that happened in the 4th quarter, the play of Matthieu, Clark and in particular Jones were what allowed the Chiefs to come back. SF would have beaten any other team that day and they were best defense in the NFL that year. Only with the defense stepping up, were we in that game. So yeah, defense is kind of important. God, the Vermeil years should have taught everyone that.

[Balto 723]

3 hours ago, Dan4pres said:

For all of the offensive fireworks that happened in the 4th quarter, the play of Matthieu, Clark and in particular Jones were what allowed the Chiefs to come back. SF would have beaten any other team that day and they were best defense in the NFL that year. Only with the defense stepping up, were we in that game. So yeah, defense is kind of important. God, the Vermeil years should have taught everyone that.

Yes it is but don’t kid yourself....Our O was by far the biggest reason we got to the super bowl and won it.  I don’t see how anyone can remotely question that.

What you said is like saying our extra point kicks won us the super bowl because we would of lost without them....yes but why do you think 49ers O played scared and with pressure?  Because our O was getting hot making 49ers O to take risks thus our O helped our D.  Get it?

[Balto 723]

3 hours ago, oldtimer said:

so your saying that Tampa's Defense  swallowing up our offense didn't win them the SB? musta watched a different game than I did and before you say something stupid last year was the 2020 Season so dont be a douchbag

No it was 2021 SB....we won the 2020 SB with Offense 

Plus it was our OL not Tampa’s D....example is when we played them before with a healthier OL....you do realize we set a SB record with most pressures allowed right? That’s 100% on our OL not Tampa’s D

[jetlord 10,209]

7 hours ago, Balto said:

And I think thats the problem...your not thinking longer term just long term if that makes sense?  My thing is sending Hardman to the Falcons in the trade because I believe Hardman will not be on this team long term because he is just not a true #1 or #2 WR and more of a gadget type.  I believe Hardman will want more than Veach will offer and Hardman will walk after his rookie deal.  Lets say Veach does pay him and now we have a expensive WR in Hardman that we overpaid for and now we are stuck with a #3 type gadet guy as our #2 because thats what we paid him as.  So yes long term meaning the next 2 years we have Hardman under rookie deal and then we either let him walk or overpay...Versus gaining a top 5 WR to pair with Hill for a very very very team friendly deal.  We have about $9M in cap atm and trading Hardman would gain us about another million...so $10M.  Lets say Veach gives HB a new deal(which will probably happen regardless of Julio coming here or not).  Now we have more than enough cap for that $15M 2021 hit....BUT then we go into 2022 and 2023 with Julio and only have a total of $2M guaranteed to him if stuff hits the fan.  Or he stays elite and we only pay him $11M each year which will be a bargain for him.

So we are good on sending Hardman away for Jones but what about a pick....THATS where I might agree with you.  If the Falcons want a 1st + Hardman then I pass....IF the Falcons want a 3rd + Hardman I do it.....If the Falcons want a 2nd+Hardman I leave it up to Veach.

Long"er" term this trade allows us to pair an elite top 5 WR with Hill on a team friendly deal for the next 3 years and then that cap falls off and we can either plug Cornell Powell into Julio's role OR look at the draft/FA with that now extra cap room.

Long term would be passing on Julio and having Hardman either walk in FA or give him a over priced contract that we are stuck with for another 4-5 years.  Then hope that 3rd round draft pick player works out..

 

Give me Julio and the extra advantage for Super Bowl wins the next 3 years versus staying put and trying to figure out what to do with Hardman and pray Hill doesn't get hurt.

When did Hardman enter the equation?  Talk is about the Chiefs giving up a second and third plus having to pay Julio's s guaranteed salary.  I hate giving up second day draft picks for a player who MIGHT play two years for the Chiefs if he can stay healthy that long.  That's mortgaging the future for an improved chance at the SB this year.  Not worth the risk unless a better deal can be struck.  

[oldtimer 8,686]

8 minutes ago, jetlord said:

When did Hardman enter the equation?  Talk is about the Chiefs giving up a second and third plus having to pay Julio's s guaranteed salary.  I hate giving up second day draft picks for a player who MIGHT play two years for the Chiefs if he can stay healthy that long.  That's mortgaging the future for an improved chance at the SB this year.  Not worth the risk unless a better deal can be struck.  

yea bu  every year is the year.. if the Veach thinks  he is worth  a 4rth or a 5 .. I'm good but no to anything higher and much like the AR scenario.. old vets aint worth what they think they are.. whom ever get him  will be an 4rth or 5th 

[Biggjliv4 1,292]

Curious if there a chance Julio isn't moved and if we could hold until trade deadline. Could be a move that puts us over the top at that point and not liable for 1/4 of his salary. 

[Dan4pres 125]

Veach is smart guy. He has created cap space for a reason. I personally think it is for a defensive piece. Some team will overpay for Julio, and I think Veach learned his lesson with Sammy. He may very well pick up a veteran WR, just don’t think that it will be Julio. He’d be fun to watch, but I’d much prefer signing someone who would wipe the smirk off of Brady’s face...with repeated beatings. If they get Julio, I will root him on and pray he stays healthy.

[sith13 1,746]

As long as Fitzgerald is unemployed he's the best player to pick up for the Chiefs IMO. Mahomes and the chase for a ring will give him that extra physical boost for a year and he doesn't need anything else to contribute in KC. He could easily surpass and and possibly double his 2020 performance 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

I go back and forth on this.  It would be so much fun watching JJ in this offense and it would take pressure off of Kelce and Hill but at some point we have to develop those #2/#3 wr's because we can't afford to pay everyone.  Plus we have addressed wr through a variety of channels.  We drafted a good looking guy, we grabbed a troubled vet in Callaway and we brought back the two guys who know this offense and with whom we won 14 games last year.    I don't think Larry at this stage gives you the same juice of JJ but he also doesn't require we mortgage a lot of picks for it either.   Plus there are going to be some vets cut that will give you some juice in a few weeks so I'm pretty sure Veach is gonna wait this out.  Maybe every team is and force the Falcons to cut or trade him for something reasonable like OT mentioned a more reasonable 4th/5th.   

As far as DE, which I think the biggest need on the team atm, CJ was working out there during OTA's.  I still would like to wait out a guy like Ingram/Houston and bring in a vet that has 10 sack potential.    

Finally, Tyreek Hill is gonna be expensive to resign this time around and he is coming up for a new contract, plus we won't be able to keep resigning these DB's to one year deals nor the wr's so those picks people throw around as currency to get JJ could be wisely used to address WR, DB, LB, S.   

With all that said....dang it would be fun to watch this offense with JJ!!!!

 

[Dan4pres 125]

12 hours ago, Balto said:

Yes it is but don’t kid yourself....Our O was by far the biggest reason we got to the super bowl and won it.  I don’t see how anyone can remotely question that.

What you said is like saying our extra point kicks won us the super bowl because we would of lost without them....yes but why do you think 49ers O played scared and with pressure?  Because our O was getting hot making 49ers O to take risks thus our O helped our D.  Get it?

Your extra point argument is borderline ridiculous. The fact of the matter is Jones made two incredible plays by knocking down easy 3rd down conversions that would have most likely put the game away. If Clark doesn't apply pressure on the last 4th down play, maybe SF converts and they go down to score a TD. The defense made plays all day in that SB. If they hadn't, the narrative would be that the vaunted Chiefs offense stunk it up in two consecutive SBs. The Chiefs made stops after consecutive Mahomes picks. Against the really good teams (and to get where you want to go) you need to be good on both sides of the football. If you can't recognize the defense's role in that SB, I don't think any rational conversation can be had with you. 

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

I personally think #2 WR is the biggest need on the team. If we can bring in some threat across from tyreek at a reasonable price im down. I have my doubts julio will come reasonable though 

[oldtimer 8,686]

6 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

I personally think #2 WR is the biggest need on the team. If we can bring in some threat across from tyreek at a reasonable price im down. I have my doubts julio will come reasonable though 

define reasonable

[KC Warpaint 3,234]

if they were to ask for a pick (say a 1st) basically that ends up being a high 2nd rounder,  probably still not worth it