Hitchens

[Calichief 3,016]

I just need to say, this guy sure looks the part now. We were roasting this guy. 
started seeing it at the end of last year. 
what a difference a dline makes…

[oldtimer 8,686]

isn't he a FA next year?

[qnet 1,150]

I remember some commentators during one game last year mentioning how good he was playing. On here, it seemed especially noticeable when he got hurt and was out a few games. 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

Never doubted him 😬.

 

[jetlord 10,209]

Hitch lost a few pounds and looks much quicker to me.  If Bolton pans out, Hitch won't be needed next year and the Chiefs can dump a lot of salary. 

[DieHard 2,061]

He was really good last year also. 

[jetlord 10,209]

18 hours ago, DieHard said:

He was really good last year also. 

Considering that he was the only competent LB on the roster, he had to be. 

[DieHard 2,061]

Very excited about the young talent there. It’s Hitch’s last year IMO. We have our young Mike and Sam. Those guys are going to be good. Great year by Veach.

[Calichief 3,016]

Defense has A LOT of young talent 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

4 hours ago, Calichief said:

Defense has A LOT of young talent 

I’m beginning to wonder if they aren’t going to let HB play out his contract and walk.   I would love to have him back and he is the heart and soul of the D but he will be 30 next year and I can’t imagine he will want anything leas than a 3-4 year deal.  He probably has 1-2 elite years left but he is already not the fastest guy so how fast does that become an issue.  Hill and Brown will also be needing new deals and are far younger than HB.  
 

We will need all the young cheap talent we can get on this team.

[dhitter 1,424]

I want Matheau back after this year. I'm guessing the failure to extend is as much about the number of years as it is dollars. Chiefs have been burned in the past by aging vets who couldn't live up to their bloated contract. I also think Veach wants to know what the cap number will look like next year.

[xen 1,010,220]

13 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

I’m beginning to wonder if they aren’t going to let HB play out his contract and walk.   I would love to have him back and he is the heart and soul of the D but he will be 30 next year and I can’t imagine he will want anything leas than a 3-4 year deal.  He probably has 1-2 elite years left but he is already not the fastest guy so how fast does that become an issue.  Hill and Brown will also be needing new deals and are far younger than HB.  
 

We will need all the young cheap talent we can get on this team.

Disagree.  We've seen safeties whose game is based on versatility like HB play really well into their mid 30's (he's 28).  I think the plan is a long extension and it should be.  The hangup is next years cap.  We're gonna be up against it and veach has said they are factoring in a franchise tag for Zeus Jr.  If they get that deal done the dominos will fall in place for an HB contract.  

HB is the engine that makes Spags defense go and he's perfect for Spags' multiple coverage D.  Barring injury I can see him playing well for another 5-7 years in that D.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

1 hour ago, xen said:

Disagree.  We've seen safeties whose game is based on versatility like HB play really well into their mid 30's (he's 28).  I think the plan is a long extension and it should be.  The hangup is next years cap.  We're gonna be up against it and veach has said they are factoring in a franchise tag for Zeus Jr.  If they get that deal done the dominos will fall in place for an HB contract.  

HB is the engine that makes Spags defense go and he's perfect for Spags' multiple coverage D.  Barring injury I can see him playing well for another 5-7 years in that D.

Hope you are right but I doubt he has 5-7 more good years.  He is 29 and will be 30 next May.  It’s the sort of contract that if HB can play at a high level throughout works great but if his game declines line a normal 30 year old in the secondary does could cripple this teams flexibility.

Again, I’m not against them resigning him but for 3 years with an out after two.  I don’t mind making him the highest paid for those two years either just don’t want a 4-5 year deal.

[xen 1,010,220]

50 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

Hope you are right but I doubt he has 5-7 more good years.  He is 29 and will be 30 next May.  It’s the sort of contract that if HB can play at a high level throughout works great but if his game declines line a normal 30 year old in the secondary does could cripple this teams flexibility.

Again, I’m not against them resigning him but for 3 years with an out after two.  I don’t mind making him the highest paid for those two years either just don’t want a 4-5 year deal.

You can't do a contract like that with the cap down the way it is.  Can't fit it in the cap and almost all of it would have to be guaranteed with a short contract like that.  Why wouldn't you want him for 3 years minimum?  Seriously lots of safeties with his type of game do not drop off until mid 30s, we've been seeing this for years.  This makes no sense to me. 

Besides, it's an NFL contract not an NBA contract.  A 5 year contract is not for 5 years and lets you backload into non guaranteed years where you can cut and/or restructure which gives you flexibility. That also gets you past the next few low cap years.  4 or 5 years makes much more sense.  

Fyi highest paid safety is now over 17+ per after the adams deal.  

[Lamardirts 2,114]

2 hours ago, xen said:

You can't do a contract like that with the cap down the way it is.  Can't fit it in the cap and almost all of it would have to be guaranteed with a short contract like that.  Why wouldn't you want him for 3 years minimum?  Seriously lots of safeties with his type of game do not drop off until mid 30s, we've been seeing this for years.  This makes no sense to me. 

Besides, it's an NFL contract not an NBA contract.  A 5 year contract is not for 5 years and lets you backload into non guaranteed years where you can cut and/or restructure which gives you flexibility. That also gets you past the next few low cap years.  4 or 5 years makes much more sense.  

Fyi highest paid safety is now over 17+ per after the adams deal.  

Lots of safeties?  Could you name a few?  I looked and couldn't find many that were even remotely worth 15+ million per year after 32-33 years old.   Troy P retired at 32.  Earl Thomas under 32.  Ed Reed 35.  Eric Weddle 33 (a shell of himself the final 2 years).  Harrison Smith is 32 but he is also a strong safety.  Brian Dawkins, Charles Woodson, and Ed Reed are the only three I  could find that played into their mid-late 30's.   None of those guys were making even close to top safety money at the time.   I would say most good safeties I looked at, declined after 30 years old and most retire in that 32-33 year range.  HB is very diverse but what makes him good is that versatility to play multiple positions.   If his speed decline he loses that versatility.   He's already not the fastest guy so he can't afford to lose much.  

[xen 1,010,220]

4 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

Lots of safeties?  Could you name a few?  I looked and couldn't find many that were even remotely worth 15+ million per year after 32-33 years old.   Troy P retired at 32.  Earl Thomas under 32.  Ed Reed 35.  Eric Weddle 33 (a shell of himself the final 2 years).  Harrison Smith is 32 but he is also a strong safety.  Brian Dawkins, Charles Woodson, and Ed Reed are the only three I  could find that played into their mid-late 30's.   None of those guys were making even close to top safety money at the time.   I would say most good safeties I looked at, declined after 30 years old and most retire in that 32-33 year range.  HB is very diverse but what makes him good is that versatility to play multiple positions.   If his speed decline he loses that versatility.   He's already not the fastest guy so he can't afford to lose much.  

Devin McCourty is doing it right now.

Weddle didn't drop off the cliff until 34 and graded out in the 80's at 33.

Same with Ed Reed with grades in the 80s at 33. 

Polamalu retired at 33.

I did not suggest we make him the highest paid safety (I believe you brought that up).  I suggested a 5 year backloaded contract with 3 real years and a few cuttable years on the backend.  That would buy time to find and develop the next guy and fit him into the cap.  He's not as fast as he used to be now and hasn't been since the knee surgeries, yet all pro both years in spags system.  If he loses a step they can stop using him at corner which is fine considering how good veach is at finding corners.

[SEMO 6,811]

1 hour ago, xen said:

Devin McCourty is doing it right now.

Weddle didn't drop off the cliff until 34 and graded out in the 80's at 33.

Same with Ed Reed with grades in the 80s at 33. 

Polamalu retired at 33.

I did not suggest we make him the highest paid safety (I believe you brought that up).  I suggested a 5 year backloaded contract with 3 real years and a few cuttable years on the backend.  That would buy time to find and develop the next guy and fit him into the cap.  He's not as fast as he used to be now and hasn't been since the knee surgeries, yet all pro both years in spags system.  If he loses a step they can stop using him at corner which is fine considering how good veach is at finding corners.

I think people are a little gun shy about giving another saftey in his late 20s a big contract.  It didn't work out well the last time.

I like a backloaded deal like you are suggesting.  We will just have to see where the cap goes.

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

I personally think Mathieu is too big a liability in coverage to commit big money to. I feel he is an above average safety, not elite. I let him walk without a second thought personally. If he wants to play for 6-7 mil a year thats one thing, but we all know he wants 15+

[DieHard 2,061]

HB is not replaceable. Our defense doesn’t work without him. I hate a huge contract for an older DB, but I think we have to find a way to get him signed. That said, if he doesn’t follow Mahomes and Jones’s lead by giving us a reasonable deal, then it is what it is. We see what life after HB looks like.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

1 hour ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

I personally think Mathieu is too big a liability in coverage to commit big money to. I feel he is an above average safety, not elite. I let him walk without a second thought personally. If he wants to play for 6-7 mil a year thats one thing, but we all know he wants 15+

I think he is at 19 million tis year?  Wait and see how he plays this year. Franchise tag next year. Chiefs have the leverage for now.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

1 hour ago, DieHard said:

HB is not replaceable. Our defense doesn’t work without him. I hate a huge contract for an older DB, but I think we have to find a way to get him signed. That said, if he doesn’t follow Mahomes and Jones’s lead by giving us a reasonable deal, then it is what it is. We see what life after HB looks like.

Every player, except elite QBs, are replaceable. 

[artsy 1,137]

This post was originally about Hitchens, and although he's lost some weight.....HE STILL SUCKS.

It's a little late for him to start playing like he's concerned now.....We've drafted his replacement and now he wants to get his shit together????

 

Nope, I'll pass. As soon as Bolton is ready, I would definitely bench Hitchens.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

27 minutes ago, AFCWEST said:

I think he is at 19 million tis year?  Wait and see how he plays this year. Franchise tag next year. Chiefs have the leverage for now.

Yeah, I think this is where I am leaning as well.   

[Lamardirts 2,114]

4 hours ago, xen said:

Devin McCourty is doing it right now.

Weddle didn't drop off the cliff until 34 and graded out in the 80's at 33.

Same with Ed Reed with grades in the 80s at 33. 

Polamalu retired at 33.

I did not suggest we make him the highest paid safety (I believe you brought that up).  I suggested a 5 year backloaded contract with 3 real years and a few cuttable years on the backend.  That would buy time to find and develop the next guy and fit him into the cap.  He's not as fast as he used to be now and hasn't been since the knee surgeries, yet all pro both years in spags system.  If he loses a step they can stop using him at corner which is fine considering how good veach is at finding corners.

I did bring up the highest paid safety because that is what its going to take to resign him and he will be 33-34 when this contract is over.  You said there are lots of safeties with his type of game playing to their mid to late 30's and I was merely pointing out that not there were not a lot of safeties playing to their mid to late 30's.  32-33 which is when most of the elite safeties retired is considered early thirties and most of those saw drop in their game those last year or two.  I just don't love giving a guy who will be 30 when this extension starts a huge deal and expecting him to play at the level we've grown accustomed for the bulk of the contract.  

If he is willing to take a discount like every other great player on this team then I'm not going to complain to much and like you said extended him longer to give more flexibility with 2-3 out years might make the most sense.  I just worry we start to see some decline in his ability this year or next and are then stuck for 2-3 more years.   It seems like Veach has worked hard to avoid further bad deals like Frank and Hitchens but this is a tricky deal especially with Hill and Orlando needing new deals in the near future.     

Time will tell, hope Veach knocks it out of the park like the last couple of contracts!

[kkuenn 3,599]

Also look at the market and see who is available. We can look at the draft depth too. I want to retain him but we can't be paying top dollar to 30+ year olds etc or all FA on our team like we have been. There is a reason it is not done now and that is because we are up against the cap next year as it sits now. I am really curious to see how Jones does at DE with Nnadi and Reed at DT. We may want to invest in those 2 DT instead?