Defensive identity

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

The D will get better.  As someone else mentioned, they didn't really have to practice much against a running scheme in OTA's and camp.  Our O is pass first.  Not making excuses, but there are many young guys, and Spags' system is different. Plus, the O HAD to try to find a Watkins replacement.  It was all about competition for who was going to be WR2 and WR3.  So, they didn't really run a lot agaist the D in practices.  That is changing, and so will the outcomes. nd LJ is something totally different.  And before that, the Cleveland RB's are no bozos, either. Chubb and Kareem Hunt.  C'mon folks.  No team is going to look good on run D against those two teams.

[kkuenn 3,599]

Just now, Fmbl2187 said:

The D will get better.  As someone else mentioned, they didn't really have to practice much against a running scheme in OTA's and camp.  Our O is pass first.  Not making excuses, but there are many young guys, and Spags' system is different. Plus, the O HAD to try to find a Watkins replacement.  It was all about competition for who was going to be WR2 and WR3.  So, they didn't really run a lot agaist the D in practices.  That is changing, and so will the outcomes.

Thank God we don't go in panic mode and put Thornhill in there.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

5 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

The D will get better.  As someone else mentioned, they didn't really have to practice much against a running scheme in OTA's and camp.  Our O is pass first.  Not making excuses, but there are many young guys, and Spags' system is different. Plus, the O HAD to try to find a Watkins replacement.  It was all about competition for who was going to be WR2 and WR3.  So, they didn't really run a lot agaist the D in practices.  That is changing, and so will the outcomes. And LJ is something totally different.  And before that, the Cleveland RB's are no bozos, either. Chubb and Kareem Hunt.  C'mon folks.  No team is going to look good on run D against those two teams.

I accidentally quoted myself instead of editing. Above is the edited post.

[Lamardirts 2,114]

6 hours ago, Palangi said:

I don’t think they have wanted to replace Neimann or Hitchens. Unfortunately. 
 

and it sucks that our second best pass rusher in the preseason we released (tim ward) 

I absolutely agree.   I used to blame Veach, thinking it was we've spent all our money elsewhere so Spags is going to have to deal with some weak positions.  However, this is year 3.   There were and have been upgrades at Niemans position for similar dollars.    

So now I've changed my mind to think Spags prefers Sorensen, Niemann, and Hitchens to others that could be an upgrade for him.   I think we see it now with Spags being stubborn with Sorensen and Thornhill.   

Is it possible there is friction among the coaching staff?   Spags not content with what he has been given so he's lording control over personel?   Seems really unlikely.   Spags has forgot more than I will ever begin to know about NFL football but his personnel decisions are highly questionable especially considering its going on 3 years of the same mess.

[xen 1,010,220]

4 hours ago, Calichief said:

It’s going to be worse this week 

Jones is questionable 

ward out

clark out- no loss 

Clark was literally the only dlineman playing the run well last week but you know...

[AFCWEST 1,238]

21 minutes ago, Lamardirts said:

I absolutely agree.   I used to blame Veach, thinking it was we've spent all our money elsewhere so Spags is going to have to deal with some weak positions.  However, this is year 3.   There were and have been upgrades at Niemans position for similar dollars.    

So now I've changed my mind to think Spags prefers Sorensen, Niemann, and Hitchens to others that could be an upgrade for him.   I think we see it now with Spags being stubborn with Sorensen and Thornhill.   

Is it possible there is friction among the coaching staff?   Spags not content with what he has been given so he's lording control over personel?   Seems really unlikely.   Spags has forgot more than I will ever begin to know about NFL football but his personnel decisions are highly questionable especially considering its going on 3 years of the same mess.

Veach gets a free pass from most here. I also think its easy to assume the bench guy will perform better. 

[xen 1,010,220]

2 hours ago, kkuenn said:

Thank God we don't go in panic mode and put Thornhill in there.

From what I can tell 75% of Chiefs fans already went straight to ludicrous speed panic mode after that loss.

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

23 minutes ago, xen said:

From what I can tell 75% of Chiefs fans already went straight to ludicrous speed panic mode after that loss.

Yeah. It's really amusing. And we were one fumble away from a two point victory over one of the best teams in football, a fumble by a running back who almost never fumbles, one of the best non-fumbling runners in football statistically.  But the sky is definitely falling. A near 2-0 record against 2 great teams.  But the sky is definitely falling.

[AFCWEST 1,238]

5 minutes ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Yeah. It's really amusing. And we were one fumble away from a two point victory over one of the best teams in football, a fumble by a running back who almost never fumbles, one of the best non-fumbling runners in football statistically.  But the sky is definitely falling. A near 2-0 record against 2 great teams.  But the sky is definitely falling.

I just dont see the discussion as the sky is falling. Maybe for a few. Its a discussion about the defense.  The Chargers are also a good team so if some are predicting a loss thats understandable. 

[Fmbl2187 2,279]

Just now, AFCWEST said:

I just dont see the discussion as the sky is falling. Maybe for a few. Its a discussion about the defense.  The Chargers are also a good team so if some are predicting a loss thats understandable. 

True.

[Calichief 3,016]

2 hours ago, xen said:

Clark was literally the only dlineman playing the run well last week but you know...

I think the chargers are going to get pass happy. So I’m not concerned about the run too much this week. 
But I get where you are going… 
 

He was key in the Super Bowl run. Yes.

but I can’t wait for the chiefs to cut bait. Maybe add 2-3 guys who can stop the run for his price.

jmo 

[Calichief 3,016]

2 hours ago, xen said:

From what I can tell 75% of Chiefs fans already went straight to ludicrous speed panic mode after that loss.

As far as defense goes sure.

when you give up 1000 yards, force 2 punts, and get bitched slapped for 265 on the ground, I’d say it’s concerning. 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

2 hours ago, AFCWEST said:

Veach gets a free pass from most here. I also think its easy to assume the bench guy will perform better. 

I’m not giving Veach a free pass but if the coaches want certain players then Veach might have allowed that players position group not to be focused on.  
 

Normally those bench players aren’t better but we have literally seen with our own eyes the difference between Gay and Niemann last year and the poor play of Sorensen this year.    I’ve never been a proponent of veteran players getting preferential treatment over and over again.  Mistakes should have consequences and when they happen at the rate Sorensen makes then sometimes a benching can be beneficial.   Ironically they talk about earning spots but it’s clear some starters haven’t earned theirs.  

[Lamardirts 2,114]

2 hours ago, Fmbl2187 said:

Yeah. It's really amusing. And we were one fumble away from a two point victory over one of the best teams in football, a fumble by a running back who almost never fumbles, one of the best non-fumbling runners in football statistically.  But the sky is definitely falling. A near 2-0 record against 2 great teams.  But the sky is definitely falling.

That Ravens team is severely depleted and will be lucky to make the playoffs IMO.   

[JPPT1974 21]

Yeah but in last week's game, it was the offense that made the mistake of course with the fumble. Not the defense.

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

11 hours ago, AFCWEST said:

Veach gets a free pass from most here. I also think its easy to assume the bench guy will perform better. 

I'm not giving him a free pass anymore. He needs to do better in the draft and specifically on defense. The 1 & 2 we traded for Clark and paying him an exorbitant amount of money to do very little the last 2 yrs. Speaks, ODaniel, Watts and Saunders are all guys drafted in the first 4 rounds that aren't giving us much of anything. The Hitchens contract has killed us. 

But he's also assembled secondaries, specifically corner groups that have performed really well in coverage for absolute peanuts with regard to the cap. And we would not have won the SB without Clark playing g the way he did the second half of 2019 and through the playoffs.

For me it's hard to second guess someone who has a resume like his. And for people that say Mahomes would make any GM look good...thats true. But we as KC fans know that Veach was the one banging on the table trying to get Reids attention when Mahomes was at TT. So he gets credit for that. 

But there's no doubt that he needs to do better in the draft. That's where our lack of depth is coming from. 

[Lamardirts 2,114]

12 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

I'm not giving him a free pass anymore. He needs to do better in the draft and specifically on defense. The 1 & 2 we traded for Clark and paying him an exorbitant amount of money to do very little the last 2 yrs. Speaks, ODaniel, Watts and Saunders are all guys drafted in the first 4 rounds that aren't giving us much of anything. The Hitchens contract has killed us. 

But he's also assembled secondaries, specifically corner that have performed really well in coverage for absolute peanuts with regard to the cap. And we would not have won the SB without Clark playing g the way he did the second half of 2019 and through the playoffs.

For me it's hard to second guess someone who has a resume like his. And for people that say Mahomes would make any GM look good...thats true. But we as KC fans know that Veach was the one banging on the table trying to get Reids attention when Mahomes was at TT. So he gets credit for that. 

But there's no doubt that he needs to do better in the draft. That's where our lack of depth is coming from. 

I’ve liked what I’ve seen from Saunders in terms of development but it’s not enough IMO.  

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

2 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

I’ve liked what I’ve seen from Saunders in terms of development but it’s not enough IMO.  

Yeah I mean you hope to get a starter with a 3rd rounder. Then again they phased him out of the rotation last yr.

[ChiefThunder 153]

3 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Yeah I mean you hope to get a starter with a 3rd rounder. Then again they phased him out of the rotation last yr.

Seems after a player gets injured...they phased out

Thornhill

Saunders

Who will it be this year???

[Lamardirts 2,114]

20 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Yeah I mean you hope to get a starter with a 3rd rounder. Then again they phased him out of the rotation last yr.

This years draft seems to have moved away from reaching on some of those 2/3 rounders.    Saunders was always an intriguing prospect but just because he’s 330 and can do backflips doesn’t mean we didn’t severely reach.   Veach was taking swings like it didn’t matter for a couple years in the draft.   
 

Sometimes you need to draft high floor guys with a little lower ceiling than guys it takes 3-4 years to develop (a la Kpass/Saunders/Mecole/Speaks/etc).   Creed was one of those players and he still might turn out to be a stud.   Bolton is another one that could be a solid starter for a decade.   

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

5 hours ago, Lamardirts said:

This years draft seems to have moved away from reaching on some of those 2/3 rounders.    Saunders was always an intriguing prospect but just because he’s 330 and can do backflips doesn’t mean we didn’t severely reach.   Veach was taking swings like it didn’t matter for a couple years in the draft.   
 

Sometimes you need to draft high floor guys with a little lower ceiling than guys it takes 3-4 years to develop (a la Kpass/Saunders/Mecole/Speaks/etc).   Creed was one of those players and he still might turn out to be a stud.   Bolton is another one that could be a solid starter for a decade.   

Veach has done a good job. And he got our cap back in shape. People forget that's big reason why Dorsey lost his job.  But a couple more drafts without adding impact starters and really good depth and Veachs job won't be nearly as stable.

It's time to stop trading picks and really start stockpiling them. I understand the reasoning for every move he's made. But to be a consistent realistic SB contender year in and year out, we have got to have more balance on our roster with the cap and our depth. 

Our team has gotten top heavy. We cannot be playing in the SB with Wisniewski starting his first game of the yr at OG when he was unemployed 3 weeks prior. No real depth necessitated that. Starting 3 rookies (that were all drafted) on the line this yr will allow us to build quality depth there and other places. Those rookie contracts are gonna be huge.

Same with LB. Gay and Bolton will form a nice tandem. Get Hitchens off the books and invest another pick at the position. 3 talented guys on rookie deals at that spot frees up money to build depth there and elsewhere. 

I'm not saying we shouldn't spend anywhere. But don't be forced into relying on Ben Niemann because your depth is so thin and because you have 12 mill tied up in a fucking bum like Hitch.

[xen 1,010,220]

8 hours ago, Calichief said:

I think the chargers are going to get pass happy. So I’m not concerned about the run too much this week. 
But I get where you are going… 
 

He was key in the Super Bowl run. Yes.

but I can’t wait for the chiefs to cut bait. Maybe add 2-3 guys who can stop the run for his price.

jmo 

Oh I get not being happy about the price cause he's definitely not a good value, but while I am mindful of it, I don't root for the salary cap.

[xen 1,010,220]

8 hours ago, Calichief said:

As far as defense goes sure.

when you give up 1000 yards, force 2 punts, and get bitched slapped for 265 on the ground, I’d say it’s concerning. 

Sure its concerning.  But let's look at the big picture:

Defenses usually are behind early in the season

This was against 2 of the best 3 rushing teams and we have typically not been great against the run early in the season.  A lot of defenses end up this way early.  Early season tackling has sucked leaguewide since they instituted the new practice rules in the prior cba.

We've literally been to the AFCCG with no defense, worse defenders and a much worse DC and position coaches.

We've seen Spags turn a D around before mid season, in 2019.   Seem to remember we did ok that year.

Contrary to popular opinion around here we have talent at all levels of this defense.  They just need to get it together.  Chris Jones did not do well this game.  He'll get better.

Some people on this board seem to panic after every loss (not talking bout you) and start spewing verbal diarrhea like children.  The players suck and have no talent, the coaches forgot how to coach, we can't gameplan blah blah blah.  Meh.  Some of y'all need to calm your tits and maybe go spark one up.  

[DieHard 2,061]

Players suck, GM sucks, coaches suck. It’s funny that the evaluation of this is usually based on the last game.

 

Thornhill is on the bench for a reason. Maybe he isn’t understanding the complexity of safety on this team. (Dan and HB do a lot of deception) Maybe he is being too tentative because of the injury. Maybe he has a personal beef with Spags. I don’t know. But Spags didn’t just become a bad coach. He is sending a message.
 

it’s like beating up Andy for a pass to Remmers. If he scored it’s genius. Like Poe throwing a TD. If it fails Andy is an idiot. 
 

it’s bizarre how people overreact.

[xen 1,010,220]

1 hour ago, DieHard said:

Players suck, GM sucks, coaches suck. It’s funny that the evaluation of this is usually based on the last game.

 

Thornhill is on the bench for a reason. Maybe he isn’t understanding the complexity of safety on this team. (Dan and HB do a lot of deception) Maybe he is being too tentative because of the injury. Maybe he has a personal beef with Spags. I don’t know. But Spags didn’t just become a bad coach. He is sending a message.
 

it’s like beating up Andy for a pass to Remmers. If he scored it’s genius. Like Poe throwing a TD. If it fails Andy is an idiot. 
 

it’s bizarre how people overreact.

Not that bizarre.  We've been watching them overreact for years at this point