Thoughts on defense

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

Let me preface this by saying that outside drafting/signing 1 good WR, I wouldn't care if every dollar spent and every pick used was on the defensive side of the ball this offseason. We seem to be that devoid of talent and depth.

But the problems go deeper than that. There is a plethora of issues at hand right now and no explanation as to why some of them are occurring.

Spagnuolo is an aggressive blitzer and usually at very opportune times. We are seeing none of that. Is that due to our deficiencies in coverage at S and LB? Is he worried we are gonna get smoked on the back end if we blitz? 

This defense has gotten worse with Jones kicking outside. I realize he made some good 1 on 1 plays in the second half against Cleveland last week. That's just pure talent. Schematically it seems to be hurting us overall. One of the problems here is if they do kick him back inside, who plays DE? We have no one there. Okafor? Kaindoh? Cmon. Taco could be resigned today and be up to speed on our game plan by Sunday. 

Hitchens looked like he was finally starting to get it at the end of last yr and during the playoffs, to an extent. He was finally hitting the right gaps and not running himself out of plays. Not getting hung up on lineman climbing to the second level. Where did that go? He looks exactly like he did the first couple years here.

And then there's the Niemann issue. I don't know how much input Reid has on defensive personnel groupings, but this just makes zero sense. There is NO WAY that a group of coaches this veteran cannot see what we are seeing. Are they that scared to put Harris in there and have him make a mistake? 

And does DeAndre Baker just suck? I mean I'll be first to admit Veach hasn't done the best job drafting defense here. But when he goes out and gets a player with as much upside as Baker (basically for free) why the hell would you not see what you have? 

Thornhill looked like he was rounding back into form at the end of last year. He had an entire offseason to prepare for this yr. Why is he not being utilized? Having Sorenson out there when we are running single high is insane. This was a second round pick and looked like one of Veachs better ones. Why would you leave this kind of talent on the bench?

They also held pat at a lot of positions on defense instead of bringing in more competition and letting the cream rise to the top. There's no way Melvin Engram couldn't help this unit. KJ Wright is grading out above average this yr in Vegas like he always does. He was a free agent until like 3 weeks ago. That dude could outplay Niemann blindfolded on roller skates. Kwann Short and Geno Atkins are run stuffing DTs just waiting for a call. Bernardrick McKinney and Todd Davis are guys who could immediately upgrade our LB depth if nothing else. Not world beaters. Players who might help.

So it's not just performance on the field. There's very bizarre decision making going in with regard to personnel. I think this front office and staff allows loyalty and pride to get in the way of the goal once in awhile. Do whatever you need to do to improve.

We are seeing the type of play you'd expect from a unit in its first year of a new system. This is yr 3 with Spags. How do you explain the regression? 

I'm still a huge Veach supporter and I believe this team will still be in the playoffs. With Pat and this offense we are always going to be in it. But there's a real problem here on defense. Don't let this thing snowball and be left scratching your head in January.

[artsy 1,137]

Good post.

it's very evident that athletic skill, intensity and talent are not the only traits that Spags and co. use to determine who plays. When they asked Andy during his press conference this morning why Sorenson is playing more than thornhhill, his answer was: Dan had a good camp.

So....Since Dan passes all of the classroom work, runs hard thru every drill in practice and screams "Yes COACH" in a loud confident voice every time he's asked to do something....He gets to play over another player that is obviously athletically superior to him?

I would assume this is also the case for Mr. Nieman? And Mr. Hitchens...

 

[kkuenn 3,597]

He learned under DC Jim Johnson of the Eagles in his eight years there, and his scheme has been described as an aggressive and blitz-heavy base 4-3, with the use of corner and safety blitzes

Saw the above in an article. He has a bend don't break but his disguised blitzing is what he uses. We can't do that with the likes if Sorensen or Ward etc. The talent is not there and these guys all got a year older and less athletic it seems so far in 2 games played. Play Thornhill and let HB do his thing. It is either feast or famine with Spags and right now we are starving.

[azchief21 5,278]

Talent evaluation on defense is terrible. We're stockpiled with low talent people on D. The talent evaluation may not be great on offense either but Mahomes is the band aid. You put just about any other QB in the league as our QB and an 8-7 season would be a dream. Somebody else mentioned earlier, this is Aaron Rodgers Syndrome. We have the best QB in the league, everything else will just work out.

[Calichief 3,016]

 

[SEMO 6,811]

They are installing the GRob Read and React defense.  

[Thegoatee 1,780]

Dan needs to return to being a backup. That is a lot of missed tackles.

[Calichief 3,016]

 

[Troyofoc 361]

1 hour ago, Calichief said:

 

[azchief21 5,278]

Arrowhead Pride Retweeted

 

 

 

The_Juan_And_Only

 

@Juan_Thornhill

 

I’ll be the best version of myself from here on out.

 

9:02 AM · Sep 20, 2021·Twitter for iPhone

 

87

Retweets

[Calichief 3,016]

Just now, azchief21 said:

Arrowhead Pride Retweeted

 

 

 

The_Juan_And_Only

 

@Juan_Thornhill

 

I’ll be the best version of myself from here on out.

 

9:02 AM · Sep 20, 2021·Twitter for iPhone

 

87

Retweets

Is he spouting off with the staff for not playing or something?

[CranjisMcbasketball 780]

It was pretty clear the decisions of letting taco and tim ward walk and keeping okafor and kaidnoh were questionable at best when they happened. Also you dont move one of the most dominant interior forces in chris jones to the outside, its just dumb. If they want to run stuff there is no reason wharton, saunders, and reed cant play d end. They need to immediately go the route they did a couple years ago when they brought in mike pennel and start signing some fatty run stuffers until one or two of them work out.
this defense does not need to worry about pass rush, no team will outpass the chiefs. They need run stuff. Put 4 fattties on the line if need be and keep our rushers on the bench til the 4th quarter or obvious passing downs.
also bolton looks undersized to me, I won’t give up hope for the kid as he has some potential, but he is in the mold of sorenson and niemann, not exactly what we needed. We desperately need willy gay to be healthy and ball out, he is one of the few men amongst boys we have to man that linebacker spot.

[azchief21 5,278]

1 hour ago, Calichief said:

Is he spouting off with the staff for not playing or something?

That's what I'm thinking

[xen 1,010,220]

2 hours ago, Calichief said:

 

Not good enough.  Though a little perspective, KC is 21-2 over the past 23 games where opponents averaged over 5 yards per carry.

[DefensiveMan 758]

8 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

It was pretty clear the decisions of letting taco and tim ward walk and keeping okafor and kaidnoh were questionable at best when they happened. Also you dont move one of the most dominant interior forces in chris jones to the outside, its just dumb. If they want to run stuff there is no reason wharton, saunders, and reed cant play d end. They need to immediately go the route they did a couple years ago when they brought in mike pennel and start signing some fatty run stuffers until one or two of them work out.
this defense does not need to worry about pass rush, no team will outpass the chiefs. They need run stuff. Put 4 fattties on the line if need be and keep our rushers on the bench til the 4th quarter or obvious passing downs.
also bolton looks undersized to me, I won’t give up hope for the kid as he has some potential, but he is in the mold of sorenson and niemann, not exactly what we needed. We desperately need willy gay to be healthy and ball out, he is one of the few men amongst boys we have to man that linebacker spot.

That's what I said. Most basic way to win games. Run the ball, and stop the run. We're not doing any of these. Why complicate it? I think they're over thinking it. Pennel and Suggs helped us not b/c of their pass rush , but they were excellent gap-stopping run stuffers.

[Calichief 3,016]

6 minutes ago, xen said:

Not good enough.  Though a little perspective, KC is 21-2 over the past 23 games where opponents averaged over 5 yards per carry.

And that’s just a couple of the bad stats. 2 punts. 1000 yards allowed. Minimal pressure. And playing the wrong dudes.

[Palangi 788]

44 minutes ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

It was pretty clear the decisions of letting taco and tim ward walk and keeping okafor and kaidnoh were questionable at best when they happened. Also you dont move one of the most dominant interior forces in chris jones to the outside, its just dumb. If they want to run stuff there is no reason wharton, saunders, and reed cant play d end. They need to immediately go the route they did a couple years ago when they brought in mike pennel and start signing some fatty run stuffers until one or two of them work out.
this defense does not need to worry about pass rush, no team will outpass the chiefs. They need run stuff. Put 4 fattties on the line if need be and keep our rushers on the bench til the 4th quarter or obvious passing downs.
also bolton looks undersized to me, I won’t give up hope for the kid as he has some potential, but he is in the mold of sorenson and niemann, not exactly what we needed. We desperately need willy gay to be healthy and ball out, he is one of the few men amongst boys we have to man that linebacker spot.

First someone in the game thread said Bolton was slow (ran a 4.60). Not he is too small (5’11” 237). Probably heavier now too. As most trim up to run faster. I bet he is around 245. Bolton is a thick, explosive guy. Very strong (24reps) too. Has 32” arms so he has good length and a 6’4” wingspan. 
 

go look at Devin White measurements you’ll see a very similar guy. 

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

1 hour ago, Palangi said:

First someone in the game thread said Bolton was slow (ran a 4.60). Not he is too small (5’11” 237). Probably heavier now too. As most trim up to run faster. I bet he is around 245. Bolton is a thick, explosive guy. Very strong (24reps) too. Has 32” arms so he has good length and a 6’4” wingspan. 
 

go look at Devin White measurements you’ll see a very similar guy. 

Yeah his evaluation was a little off. He's not in the mold of Sorenson or Niemann at all. He is an explosive player who's instincts allow him to exceed his measurables. 

Hes built like a Mike and that's what he will be when we finally get Hitchens the fuck off this roster. 

I'm sure you saw Hitchens was unable to get off numerous blocks yesterday in 1 on 1 situations with WRs and TEs. That dude is a fucking bum. 

[ChiefThunder 153]

8 minutes ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Yeah his evaluation was a little off. He's not in the mold of Sorenson or Niemann at all. He is an explosive player who's instincts allow him to exceed his measurables. 

Hes built like a Mike and that's what he will be when we finally get Hitchens the fuck off this roster. 

I'm sure you saw Hitchens was unable to get off numerous blocks yesterday in 1 on 1 situations with WRs and TEs. That dude is a fucking bum. 

When Willie returns, I hope we make the adjustment and slide Bolton at Mike while Hitchens replaces Niemann. Bolton has natural instincts and fill a gap unlike Hitchens. 

[Palangi 788]

1 hour ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

Yeah his evaluation was a little off. He's not in the mold of Sorenson or Niemann at all. He is an explosive player who's instincts allow him to exceed his measurables. 

Hes built like a Mike and that's what he will be when we finally get Hitchens the fuck off this roster. 

I'm sure you saw Hitchens was unable to get off numerous blocks yesterday in 1 on 1 situations with WRs and TEs. That dude is a fucking bum. 

Hitchens is soft. Doesn’t attack the line of scrimmage. Definitely not a MLB

[Palangi 788]

1 hour ago, ChiefThunder said:

When Willie returns, I hope we make the adjustment and slide Bolton at Mike while Hitchens replaces Niemann. Bolton has natural instincts and fill a gap unlike Hitchens. 

I’d like to see Darius Harris replace Neimann at the SLB Hitchens shouldn’t see the field either

 SLB- Harris

MLB- Bolton

 WLB- Gay

[sith13 1,746]

I think the #1 priority for defense this offseason will be yet another LB. Need to replace Hitchens and if we can find an immediate impact guy and everyone can stay healthy we might have a major improvement at LB. Obviously too early to talk but my order in the draft would be a DE in 1st and a LB in 2nd. 

[Handswarmer 645]

8 hours ago, CranjisMcbasketball said:

It was pretty clear the decisions of letting taco and tim ward walk and keeping okafor and kaidnoh were questionable at best when they happened. Also you dont move one of the most dominant interior forces in chris jones to the outside, its just dumb. If they want to run stuff there is no reason wharton, saunders, and reed cant play d end. They need to immediately go the route they did a couple years ago when they brought in mike pennel and start signing some fatty run stuffers until one or two of them work out.
this defense does not need to worry about pass rush, no team will outpass the chiefs. They need run stuff. Put 4 fattties on the line if need be and keep our rushers on the bench til the 4th quarter or obvious passing downs.
also bolton looks undersized to me, I won’t give up hope for the kid as he has some potential, but he is in the mold of sorenson and niemann, not exactly what we needed. We desperately need willy gay to be healthy and ball out, he is one of the few men amongst boys we have to man that linebacker spot.

The Ravens RB's ran right up the middle; they pulled the gurads to cover up the weaknesses. Jones being outside was a spectator most of the game; Frank Clark doubled his stats...

[Iluvhouse24 1,808]

7 hours ago, sith13 said:

I think the #1 priority for defense this offseason will be yet another LB. Need to replace Hitchens and if we can find an immediate impact guy and everyone can stay healthy we might have a major improvement at LB. Obviously too early to talk but my order in the draft would be a DE in 1st and a LB in 2nd. 

I believe DE will be our first round priority as well. It's a position we have to improve without dumping more money into. We will likely be eating 13 mill in dead money to get the shell of the player formerly known as Frank Clark off our roster. 

I'm an avid Veach supporter. I love his aggressiveness. But I think the time for trading first rounders needs to be over. Clark is a bit of a cautionary tale. He helped us win a 💍,  but big picture he is one of the players who got paid and disappeared.

This defense needs to be built through the draft and with smart FA acquisitions. Pay Badger. But we can't go top of the market free agent anywhere on defense in my opinion. This roster is too top heavy and needs depth. 

 

[Calichief 3,016]

1 hour ago, Iluvhouse24 said:

I believe DE will be our first round priority as well. It's a position we have to improve without dumping more money into. We will likely be eating 13 mill in dead money to get the shell of the player formerly known as Frank Clark off our roster. 

I'm an avid Veach supporter. I love his aggressiveness. But I think the time for trading first rounders needs to be over. Clark is a bit of a cautionary tale. He helped us win a 💍,  but big picture he is one of the players who got paid and disappeared.

This defense needs to be built through the draft and with smart FA acquisitions. Pay Badger. But we can't go top of the market free agent anywhere on defense in my opinion. This roster is too top heavy and needs depth. 

 

Xen and I had this on our top of the list for this past draft. That was until the oline melted down of course.