Andy is a great coach but….

[Lamardirts 2,114]

We won the first SB in spite of him.   We abandon the run second half and then call plays for DRob when Mahomes is obviously shaky.   The TO before the challenge.   The in ability to adjust after they adjusted or stubbornness not too.  That was a nearly perfect first half that turned into the ugliest 2nd half I can remember.   Wow what a disappointment and missed opportunity!

[Lamardirts 2,114]

No he should not be fired.  He is so good.  He just seems to get in his own way sometimes.  

[KCTech 125]

Thanks for another good season Chiefs... much better than one and done like the past.

[moons314 2,463]

Nobody can beat Andy Reid like Andy Reid.  He’s not always the smartest guy in his own head.  He can scheme up the best offense in the world, but he can’t help himself with all the cute shit and refusing to run the ball

[Docbarnabee 225]

We played exactly the same in the first meeting. Both halves. They got away from the run again.  Kept getting themselves in third and long. They let the Bengals take the momentum, when they should ha e buried them. The team really needs to take a good hard look at themselves.

Next year could be a struggle unless we get a really good draft class.

[NCChief 46]

Reid needs an assistant to challenge his thinking sometimes or to just slap the shit out of him and say to quit thinking of chocolate cake and cheeseburgers once in a while.

[sith13 1,746]

Andy is a great HC but not a great OC. He needs a real OC next to him challenging some of the decisions as well as put him on the right track. We need a Spags-like presence (in terms of ownership) on offense, otherwise Andy isn't really a great coach as his subordinates dictate the greatness of a HC more than anything else. 

[ClarksvilleChief 193]

All true, but Patrick didn't exactly play lights out that 2nd half....he was off the whole half

[oldtimer 8,686]

36 minutes ago, ClarksvilleChief said:

All true, but Patrick didn't exactly play lights out that 2nd half....he was off the whole half

it was if the last play of the first half took his mojo  away. It certainly did inspire Cnci.. that'd been the end. Why they just did not  go for a FG is beyond me

[hankstromboli 25]

I can't completely blame reid for the loss.  mahomes was pretty bad in the second half - overthrowing wrs and those sacks were horrible.  he had open running lanes and didn't take them.  i can't remember him having such a bad half like he did yesterday. 
Seriously, I don't think reid should get the lion's share of blame

. 

[oldtimer 8,686]

17 minutes ago, hankstromboli said:

I can't completely blame reid for the loss.  mahomes was pretty bad in the second half - overthrowing wrs and those sacks were horrible.  he had open running lanes and didn't take them.  i can't remember him having such a bad half like he did yesterday. 
Seriously, I don't think reid should get the lion's share of blame

. 

^^^^^^^ This

[sith13 1,746]

33 minutes ago, hankstromboli said:

I can't completely blame reid for the loss.  mahomes was pretty bad in the second half - overthrowing wrs and those sacks were horrible.  he had open running lanes and didn't take them.  i can't remember him having such a bad half like he did yesterday. 
Seriously, I don't think reid should get the lion's share of blame

. 

I'm a bit confused with your logic. You are up by 3 scores, your QB is playing pretty bad and the run game is working great. So why don't you just call run plays? I think your reasoning is exactly why Reid deserves all the blame. 

If the play call was fixed and neither run nor pass was working in the second half some of the blame would definitely go to the executors but when your own coach is putting you into a losing situation you can't really expect the players to do the hat trick over and over. The key thing to realize is that if the weird play calls worked in the second half and we somehow won, or even won with the same plays but scored a TD to end the regulation it would still be Mahomes magic coupled with terrible play calling.

[hankstromboli 25]

19 minutes ago, sith13 said:

I'm a bit confused with your logic. You are up by 3 scores, your QB is playing pretty bad and the run game is working great. So why don't you just call run plays? I think your reasoning is exactly why Reid deserves all the blame. 

If the play call was fixed and neither run nor pass was working in the second half some of the blame would definitely go to the executors but when your own coach is putting you into a losing situation you can't really expect the players to do the hat trick over and over. The key thing to realize is that if the weird play calls worked in the second half and we somehow won, or even won with the same plays but scored a TD to end the regulation it would still be Mahomes magic coupled with terrible play calling.

So I guess Andy is to blame for Mahomes running around like a chicken with his head cut off?  mahomes was awful in the second half, he missed wrs, threw to scrubs like demarcus, and didn't play smart football. 

Also look at the play calls. Andy didn't completely abandon the run.  I wished he would have ran more but that's not our team strength.  
2nd half: 12 runs, 18 pass
Our offense is a passing offense, our running game is not great. andy went with his strength

Andy DEFINITIELY has blame but it all doesn't fall on him

[sith13 1,746]

5 minutes ago, hankstromboli said:

So I guess Andy is to blame for Mahomes running around like a chicken with his head cut off?  mahomes was awful in the second half, he missed wrs, threw to scrubs like demarcus, and didn't play smart football. 

Also look at the play calls. Andy didn't completely abandon the run.  I wished he would have ran more but that's not our team strength.  
2nd half: 12 runs, 18 pass
Our offense is a passing offense, our running game is not great. andy went with his strength

Andy DEFINITIELY has blame but it all doesn't fall on him

Absolutely. When you put your QB against a 8-man coverage what do you expect him to do? 

The funny thing is our not great running game averaged 5.8 yards per play as opposed to 5.5 yards per passing play. So not sure what makes you think passing was a strength for us? With these stats we ended up passing in 2/3rds of all the offensive plays in a game which we led for about 45 minutes. A smart coach would have ran the ball consistently and only worry about passing if/when it fails, the assumption that it'll fail when the evidence suggests otherwise is crazy. Also the lack of production and 0 net passing yards in the second half until the last drive sort of beat the notion that passing is Andy's strength. 

I just can't see any situation in the entire second half when Reid put Mahomes in a winnable situation, may be you can help me out but Reid was a bigger stop for our offense than the Bengals defense was in this game. Reid is great in coaching players and coming up with new plays but he's nowhere near as good, if not below average, in play calling. 

[hankstromboli 25]

8 minutes ago, sith13 said:

Absolutely. When you put your QB against a 8-man coverage what do you expect him to do? 

The funny thing is our not great running game averaged 5.8 yards per play as opposed to 5.5 yards per passing play. So not sure what makes you think passing was a strength for us? With these stats we ended up passing in 2/3rds of all the offensive plays in a game which we led for about 45 minutes. A smart coach would have ran the ball consistently and only worry about passing if/when it fails, the assumption that it'll fail when the evidence suggests otherwise is crazy. Also the lack of production and 0 net passing yards in the second half until the last drive sort of beat the notion that passing is Andy's strength. 

I just can't see any situation in the entire second half when Reid put Mahomes in a winnable situation, may be you can help me out but Reid was a bigger stop for our offense than the Bengals defense was in this game. Reid is great in coaching players and coming up with new plays but he's nowhere near as good, if not below average, in play calling. 

1 hour ago, sith13 said:

I'm a bit confused with your logic. You are up by 3 scores, your QB is playing pretty bad and the run game is working great. So why don't you just call run plays? I think your reasoning is exactly why Reid deserves all the blame. 

If the play call was fixed and neither run nor pass was working in the second half some of the blame would definitely go to the executors but when your own coach is putting you into a losing situation you can't really expect the players to do the hat trick over and over. The key thing to realize is that if the weird play calls worked in the second half and we somehow won, or even won with the same plays but scored a TD to end the regulation it would still be Mahomes magic coupled with terrible play calling.

We shall agree to disagree. 

Andy doesn't throw INTs. Andy doesn't take horrible sacks. Andy doesn't throw a pass to Tyreek in the flat with no timeouts remaining. Mahomes made some bonehead mistakes. 

Bengals sent 8 man coverage on 35% of KC pass plays. Alot but not insurmountable. 
 
Regarding team strength - We have Tyreek, Kelce and Mahomes via the vertical game.  We have CEH, DW, mckinon, gore.  Who would you rather trust to win this game?  Also there was balance on offense in the second half - fact. We did continue to run and didn't just abandon it.   Maybe he could have ran the ball more, I AGREE

From my perspective, you're blaming it all on Andy.  I think that's very unfair.   I'm not saying Andy doesn't have blame in this loss. He does have blame but so does Mahomes. 

[artsy 1,137]

41 minutes ago, hankstromboli said:

We shall agree to disagree. 

Andy doesn't throw INTs. Andy doesn't take horrible sacks. Andy doesn't throw a pass to Tyreek in the flat with no timeouts remaining. Mahomes made some bonehead mistakes. 

Bengals sent 8 man coverage on 35% of KC pass plays. Alot but not insurmountable. 
 
Regarding team strength - We have Tyreek, Kelce and Mahomes via the vertical game.  We have CEH, DW, mckinon, gore.  Who would you rather trust to win this game?  Also there was balance on offense in the second half - fact. We did continue to run and didn't just abandon it.   Maybe he could have ran the ball more, I AGREE

From my perspective, you're blaming it all on Andy.  I think that's very unfair.   I'm not saying Andy doesn't have blame in this loss. He does have blame but so does Mahomes. 

Yes! I disagree. You're right, Andy doesn't throw Ints or take sacks or make bad throws. BUT, Andy has to have a sense of what's transpiring throughout the game. His QB looked rattled and the defense was playing more man defense and dropping back 7/8 with a likely spy. Yes we ran the ball in the 2nd half ON EVERY 1st and 10 and was still gaining 6 yds a clip, but would not even try to pick up the first downs running the ball on 2nd/3rd downs when the defense was giving that to you???

Reid IS THE HEAD COACH. Everyone wants to talk about Reid being a future HOF'r etc, etc..But this loss, along many other losses are on him. IMO.

So yes, we will have to disagree. 

[hankstromboli 25]

18 minutes ago, artsy said:

Yes! I disagree. You're right, Andy doesn't throw Ints or take sacks or make bad throws. BUT, Andy has to have a sense of what's transpiring throughout the game. His QB looked rattled and the defense was playing more man defense and dropping back 7/8 with a likely spy. Yes we ran the ball in the 2nd half ON EVERY 1st and 10 and was still gaining 6 yds a clip, but would not even try to pick up the first downs running the ball on 2nd/3rd downs when the defense was giving that to you???

Reid IS THE HEAD COACH. Everyone wants to talk about Reid being a future HOF'r etc, etc..But this loss, along many other losses are on him. IMO.

So yes, we will have to disagree. 

I'm fine with that.  All im saying is all the blame cannot be placed on reid. 

You're making it seem like running the ball was a guaranteed win.  It did work but nothing's guaranteed. 

Hindsight is 20-20. there was blame to go around everywhere

[sith13 1,746]

1 hour ago, hankstromboli said:

We shall agree to disagree. 

Andy doesn't throw INTs. Andy doesn't take horrible sacks. Andy doesn't throw a pass to Tyreek in the flat with no timeouts remaining. Mahomes made some bonehead mistakes. 

Bengals sent 8 man coverage on 35% of KC pass plays. Alot but not insurmountable. 
 
Regarding team strength - We have Tyreek, Kelce and Mahomes via the vertical game.  We have CEH, DW, mckinon, gore.  Who would you rather trust to win this game?  Also there was balance on offense in the second half - fact. We did continue to run and didn't just abandon it.   Maybe he could have ran the ball more, I AGREE

From my perspective, you're blaming it all on Andy.  I think that's very unfair.   I'm not saying Andy doesn't have blame in this loss. He does have blame but so does Mahomes. 

I don't disagree that Andy isn't the executor. If the rest executed perfectly we wouldn't be talking about any of this. However as the HC it's Reid's job to put the team in a position to win. If I'm not mistaken we had only a single down where the runner was touched behind the LOS yesterday and even that ended up being a positive gain. Lack of consistency in calling run plays was the primary culprit of the meltdown in the second half. The first half showed that Bengals were incapable of stopping us so they decided to focus only on a single aspect which combined with Reid's failure as a coach to adjust led to one of the worst offensive performances of recent years. 

With a 3-score lead and the ball in our hands for the last 2 quarters I trust CEH, DW, McKinnon, Gore to win any game than receivers. The idea of building such a lead is to be able to use the receivers only when there's no other option. Also yesterday's game showed that Reid's trust in those receivers is misplaced when the entire defense is focused on stopping them. 

I think it's the HC's primary job to put the team in a position to win but Reid basically kept putting new mountains to scale in front of the team against a beat-up opponent that didn't have any answers to our running game. As you said we shall agree to disagree.

[DefensiveMan 758]

The Bengals had nothing to lose, and played like it. They far exceeded expectations this year. I'm not so sure KC would have beaten LA in the SB against another team hosting. Chiefs SB was last week..

[hankstromboli 25]

27 minutes ago, sith13 said:

I don't disagree that Andy isn't the executor. If the rest executed perfectly we wouldn't be talking about any of this. However as the HC it's Reid's job to put the team in a position to win. If I'm not mistaken we had only a single down where the runner was touched behind the LOS yesterday and even that ended up being a positive gain. Lack of consistency in calling run plays was the primary culprit of the meltdown in the second half. The first half showed that Bengals were incapable of stopping us so they decided to focus only on a single aspect which combined with Reid's failure as a coach to adjust led to one of the worst offensive performances of recent years. 

With a 3-score lead and the ball in our hands for the last 2 quarters I trust CEH, DW, McKinnon, Gore to win any game than receivers. The idea of building such a lead is to be able to use the receivers only when there's no other option. Also yesterday's game showed that Reid's trust in those receivers is misplaced when the entire defense is focused on stopping them. 

I think it's the HC's primary job to put the team in a position to win but Reid basically kept putting new mountains to scale in front of the team against a beat-up opponent that didn't have any answers to our running game. As you said we shall agree to disagree.

Sounds like we partially agree. Im good with your statement below.
"I think it's the HC's primary job to put the team in a position to win but Reid basically kept putting new mountains to scale in front of the team against a beat-up opponent that didn't have any answers to our running game. "

I do wish reid called more running plays but mahomes was trash.  I just can't throw the entire loss on andy. that's primarily my point. 

[artsy 1,137]

10 minutes ago, hankstromboli said:

Sounds like we partially agree. Im good with your statement below.
"I think it's the HC's primary job to put the team in a position to win but Reid basically kept putting new mountains to scale in front of the team against a beat-up opponent that didn't have any answers to our running game. "

I do wish reid called more running plays but mahomes was trash.  I just can't throw the entire loss on andy. that's primarily my point. 

I think A LOT of us put Pat Mahomes on too high a pedastal. The KID IS HUMAN. As much as some want to believe that he can actually walk on water...He really cant. 

How many QBs can be successful when the defense knows exactly what you're gonna do? How many qbs and move the ball effectively when the defense drops 8 people back in coverage? 

They were dropping 8 in coverage a little in the 1st half, but they were dropping in zone. Pat took his time and sliced it up. In the 2nd half, they dropped 8 and played man with a spy. That's why he was holding the ball so damn long. 

Look, I'm an old Jr. High/High School Football coach, I tend to watch the game thru a different lens. I can see the flaws in the coaching that maybe some folks don't see. Pat Mahomes is human. He can't always make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Last nite, Reid/EB was once again asking him to do just that (Just like the SB) and it didn't work this time. 

What's upsetting is that Reid did not have to do that. The game was right there for the taking and HE SHIT THE BED. I will not lay this loss at the feet of PM15..or Spags or the defense. 

[Thegoatee 1,780]

Looked up on pro football reference website. Of the Chiefs 50 worst blown leads in franchise history, Andy Reid coached 14 of them.

[jgriff3029 26]

7 minutes ago, Thegoatee said:

Looked up on pro football reference website. Of the Chiefs 50 worst blown leads in franchise history, Andy Reid coached 14 of them.

One way to look at that is we haven't had many coaches who could get us to a big lead and give us the opportunity to blow it.

[Thegoatee 1,780]

22 minutes ago, jgriff3029 said:

One way to look at that is we haven't had many coaches who could get us to a big lead and give us the opportunity to blow it.

That is a way to look at it, but it also pushes Andy to blowing a lead of 11 or more points almost 2 times a year for KC. Three of the four worst offenses were all playoffs.

With the Eagles, it is 10 times at 10 or more points of their Top 50.

I wish someone would crunch numbers on coaches who, on a per game basis, squander double digit leads the most. Andy has to be up there.

[artsy 1,137]

1 minute ago, Thegoatee said:

That is a way to look at it, but it also pushes Andy to blowing a lead of 11 or more points almost 2 times a year for KC. Three of the four worst offenses were all playoffs.

With the Eagles, it is 10 times at 10 or more points of their Top 50.

I wish someone would crunch numbers on coaches who, on a per game basis, squander double digit leads the most. Andy has to be up there.

Yup. With Alex Smith it was run run pass punt, with a lead. Now its run pass pass punt with a lead. 

And throughout the course of the game it doesn't change.  Andy had tendencies that the league has picked up on. Last night his TENDENCIES were exploited.